I read someone saying once that a bangel fan couldn't understand her love of Spuffy, because she believes that Bangels have different ideas about love than Spuffy fans. Does anyone else think that?

Well, my quick and dirty response is - I'm not a Bangel because I'm not twelve; but that's pretty flip and not very kind.  I do think that to be a Bangel, you have to believe in "forever love" "soul mates" and other romantic ideals like that and I think most of us outgrow those ideas and become more realistic as we get older.  Even if you do believe in there being only one person for you, I don't know why anyone would think that you can find and identify that person when you're in your mid teens - a time of making notoriously bad choices.

*shrugs*  It just doesn't work for me.  Could there, would there, should there always be feelings of some sort for your first love? Sure. Absolutely.  Does that mean that he/she is the person that the adult you would want to spend the rest of your life with? Hell, no.  Part of growing up is learning who you are and learning to appreciate those who can fall in love with the real you. I just don't believe the average adult (couples who meet in 6th grade and are still together 60 years later to the contrary) is going to be turned on by or impressed by the same things that he/she found lovable when a teenager.

Adult love is hard, often messy, rarely "perfect" and requires more work than just believing you are each other's "soul mates".  Angel and Buffy both moved on to others. Their connection was a residue of what they once had - which in Buffy's case, was a teenaged crush on an older man.   It's entirely possible that a fully adult Buffy wouldn't think Spike was "the one" either, for other reasons, but there is just no reason to think that she could ever recapture what she thinks she felt for Angel.

Which is not to say that I don't believe you can love someone forever - just that it isn't likely that it will be the same person you thought you were going to die without when you were seventeen...

Could not have said it better myself, slaymesoftly.  I completely agree with everything you just wrote. I am not a bangel fan because I don't see that Buffy and Angel are in love anymore. Buffy grew up and such a different person than when she was in her teens.  Buffy gave her heart completely to Angel because she has never been hurt before and thought Angel was her true love and soul mate. That is what most girls think of their first love. They believe is the forever and all of that. But like slaymesoftly has said. Of course your first love will always be in your heart where no one else could touch.  It is your fairy tale love and before you experience any type of heart ache.

Also, like slaymesoftly said that doesn't mean that adult Buffy would look at Spike to be her forever love. But more him than Angel. Spike knows her now and Angel doesn't. Angel really doesn't know her at all anymore. I believe that  given more time  she would have given her heart and soul to Spike. She was started to already.  Like Giles said to Buffy that her and Spike depended on each other with everything. 

Part of the reason that I love Spuffy so much. Is that even when Spike was evil you could tell that Buffy and Spike had this connection. Like Spike understood Buffy more than her friends or boyfriends. You could just tell that there was a connection with them. 

I also I love how Spike was known as the slayers of slayers. Only to fall in love with one and went to get his soul for one.

There is so many reasons why Spuffy is my favorite tv couple and probably favorite fiction couple ever as of right now. I would probably take me forever to list the reasons why I love Spuffy.

To me the relationship between Spike and Buffy and all that they have been through together just blows away the Buffy and Angel relationship.

LOL!  That about sums it up for me.   Even if it isn't kind to say so.  I'd love to take that quote and make an icon for it.

So yeah, what slaymesoftly said.  Her whole post, not just the brilliant quote.

And I have to add:  Spike's hot; Angel's not.  Wait...maybe I am twelve.

No really.  Angel was a total bore.  Boring is not exciting nor is it a turn on.  I thought Angelus was hot so nothing against DB. 

I started watching Buffy when I was about 13, so I was all for the Bangel relationship.  I loved them together, but I outgrew that.  It amazes me that people think Buffy and Angel are still meant to be together after all this time.  To me it was more of a puppy love thing, not exactly true love.  What they had was good at the time, but they both moved on.  You rarely stay with your first love forever.

I actually got into Buffy the Vampire Slayer at around fifteen, but I was never one for the Buffy/Angel relationship. Maybe that meant I was unlike other teenage girls, who dream about a 'soul-mate' or a 'one true love' but I never really believed in that. I was all for the Spuffy relationship even before I saw there was going to be one. They just had more chemistry. Buffy and Angel had first love, and maybe I was cynical, but even at fifteen I knew that first love rarely lasted. Sometimes it does, but Buffy and Angel weren't one of those couples. They had been drifting apart even before Angel left for LA. Plus the person I was at fifteen wasn't going to be exactly who I would be at twenty five or so, and I couldn't see how two people who barely knew each other, more than that first love/lust could be 'forever'. Plus, I never believed in soul mates, the one person who is going to complete you. But than again, I never really saw Romeo and Juliet as that romantic either. They knew each other for two days, I never understood how they could say they were so in love. I'm not saying Buffy and Angel didn't love each other, but forever, no I don't buy that. Buffy and Angel both moved on. Angel was moving on long before she did. But none of the first loves lasted in the show really, I mean Cordelia didn't stay with Xander, and Oz left Willow, but I don't see many of their fans trying to knock Tara or Anya.

What I think Angel feels now, is a sort of possessive caring for her. He doesn't want her anymore, he just doesn't want to admit it. And the second he sees anyone else with her, or making her happy, he gets jealous and has to undermine them, like he does with Spike. And I think Buffy is holding on to the past, doesn't really want to admit that what she believed were very strong feelings for her 'soul mate' aren't that strong anymore, and that she's holding herself back from moving on. And it scared her when she had feelings for Spike, because she's very much in denial.

Good points, Nika - What I think Angel feels now, is a sort of possessive caring for her. He doesn't want her anymore, he just doesn't want to admit it. And the second he sees anyone else with her, or making her happy, he gets jealous and has to undermine them, like he does with Spike. And I think Buffy is holding on to the past, doesn't really want to admit that what she believed were very strong feelings for her 'soul mate' aren't that strong anymore, and that she's holding herself back from moving on. And it scared her when she had feelings for Spike, because she's very much in denial. 

Sums it up nicely. :)   

Actually, the Romeo and Juliet story goes to prove the point - they were teenagers (very young teenagers), so everything was immediate and urgent and earthshaking.  And worth killing yourself over.  No thought to having a future without the other.  Immature reactions to a very mature situation.  :)

"When I'm with you, I want to die."

Yeah, that's a wonderful romance when it makes you feel that way.  Only a special guy can make you feel suicidal. Personally, I'd choose the kinky sex with handcuffs over that any day :P

And let's face it--Angel only wants her cause he can't have her.  She was the unobtainable to him in more ways then one, which makes Buffy saying that to Spike all the more hilarious (cause Spike did feel worthy, which is why he pursues her.  Buffy is the one who pursues Angel).  Angel summed up their love quite nicely in s3--A freak show.  I still love Angel on his own, though.  Or with Spike.  Just not with Buffy.  After the whole Angelus thing, I didn't get how they could even be together after that... 

I started typing this really long post, realized that I had nothing new to add to all of your brilliantly worded insights, and deleted it.  I have but one thing to say: 

Ditto.

Hey, would ya look at that?  You guys have managed to do the impossible: make IB speechless :-P

Oh, wait!  I do have one more thing to add: Vive le Spuffy!

One aspect that I don't think has been mentioned yet:

It has always seemed to me that, in the end, Angel and Buffy brought out the worst in each other.  Spike and Buffy brought out the best.

Coquine

Angel's lame.  His hair stands straight up and he's bloody stupid.

Angel's lame.  His hair stands straight up and he's bloody stupid.

A very valid point. :nod:

:P

Angel's lame.  His hair stands straight up and he's bloody stupid. 

I think that may be the most valid argument ;-)

  Angel's dull as a table lamp, and wears lifts.

 Evil's still afoot! And I'm almost out of that Nancy-boy hair gel I like so much. Quickly, to the Angel-mobile, away!

I understand.  I have a nephew who's gay, so....

I agree with everything stated above; I loved Bangel, when I was still a teenager.  When I became a grown-up (am I really???  Do I hafta?  I don' wanna!!!) I naturally gravitated towards a more mature relationship, and that's exactly what Spuffy is:  mature.  It's not always pretty, but it's real.  I think that's why, for me anyway, I've found Spuffy to be a much more enduring fandom.  It's not something I've grown tired of quickly, and that's saying something, since I tend to change hobbies faster than I change my socks.  And what IS that smell???  :lol:

My opinion is that Buffy and Angel's love was emotionally deep but based on a high school sort of love for the forbidden. Spike and Buffy, while they brought the best out of each other, they also brought the worst out of each other. Normally i would join in the Angel hateage but after watching Angel all the way up to S4 on FX over the last couple of months, I can't help but like Angel a bit....