BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Buffy and Giles *Spoilers for Season 8*

Dec 07 2007 11:40 am   #1SpikeHot

I felt bad for Buffy. Why do you think that Giles keeps pushing her away? It started since season six, and he keeps working behind her back. I hope one day Giles gives that long waited apology to Buffy.

Dec 07 2007 11:49 am   #2Nika

I always thought that maybe Giles was pushing her away because of how much he cared for her. He loved her like the daughter he never had, and he saw that she was growing and wouldn't need him anymore.

And I think he also wanted to help her grow, as a leader and more emotionally, so he distanced himself in an attempt to do that.

There were scenes in season seven that showed he still cared for her, I mean, if you look at it from Giles point of view in Lies My Parents Told Me, most of his going along with Robin was because he saw Spike as an 'unsuitable' boyfriend/love interest for his 'daughter'. I think in his own mind he was trying to protect her from getting hurt again.

What is a little ironic is that the only boyfriend he and the scoobies really approved of for Buffy was Riley, and in many ways he was her most unsuitable lover.

 

"Perhaps a great love is never returned."

-Dag Hammersjold
Dec 07 2007 11:56 am   #3Sotia

I don't think Giles really approved of Riley either! He saw the initiative as a threat, and I doubt he'd ever find anyone good enough for Buffy.

IMHO, his basic problem is that the sterile beliefs that had been ingrained in him throughout the years of his involvement with the council kept clashing with the way he felt about Buffy and with the shades of gray being shoved in his face throughout the show. 

I think all of the times his behavior was not what we'd expect from a father it was the former winning, as it was difficult for him to shake off so many years of seeing the world in absolutes of black and white.

What can I tell you, baby? I've always been bad...
Dec 07 2007 11:57 am   #4Guest

Part of it might also be that he can't be close to her again in case something happens and she dies, again. Subconciously, at least, it's easier for him if they have distance. Until/unless she does die again, and he realizes it was foolish to waste so much time they could have had....

CM

Dec 07 2007 03:05 pm   #5SpikeHot

I found the transcripts to this issue and here is the scene where Giles and Buffy faught,

In profile, we see Giles answering the phone. He looks relieved as he begins talking, assuming its Willow on the other end.

GILES: Thank heaven you called. I’d hoped to protect you from all this, but I may require your assistance remotely deactivating a mystical –

BUFFY: (through the phone) Shut up, Giles.

GILES: (through the phone) Buffy?

BUFFY: *Her*. You’re working with her and you didn’t even *tell* me?

We see Giles, on his end, rubbing the bridge of his nose under his glasses. His eyes are closed – this isn’t the conversation he wanted to be having.

GILES: I… I can explain later. Please, lives are at stake.

On Buffy’s end, she’s only more upset.

BUFFY: Yeah, like mine. Your femme Nikita just tried to stuff me down a pool drain.

GILES: (through phone) *What*?

BUFFY: Faith and her new droogs ‘ported me into the middle of the British Invasion, but Willow conjured up my ticket home.

GILES: (through phone) And you left Faith behind? Buffy, you have to put Willow on the line.

BUFFY: Not until you tell me exactly what the hell is going on.

GILES: … No. I don’t want you to be any part of this.

In the castle, we see a close-up of Buffy. Her face is as if something just broken inside her. The anger is gone, and her eyes are wide and maybe a little wet as she lets the phone drift from her ear.

In a wider view, Buffy holds the phone out to her right for Willow to take it. Willow reaches for it tentatively. Both her and Xander look like they want to reach out to Buffy, seeing how visibly hurt she is. Buffy’s eyes and almost her whole face are in shadow, but her lips, and her posture, both slump despondently.

BUFFY: Do what you can for him.

WILLOW: Is… is everything okay, Buffy?

XANDER: Er, maybe the boss just needs some alone time.

As Buffy walks away, we see her look back over her shoulder in close-up. Her eyes looked brighter when they were hidden in shadow.

BUFFY: What other kind is there?

Dec 07 2007 04:51 pm   #6Guest

Kinda surprising she's so upset...that seems like a younger Buffy reaction. After season 7, she knows how Giles is going to operate, and she's also reconciled with Faith. You'd think it'd be obvious now that this is just business and nothing personal about her at all. It makes no sense, unless there was a falling out between Faith and Buffy again in that 18 months before the comics started, to where she'd feel betrayed if Giles put her to work.

CM

Dec 07 2007 10:45 pm   #7Spikez_tart

Giles betrays Buffy at least (possibly more) three times - over the Cruciamentum, when he leaves her so she can grow up and when he attempts to kill Spike.  He also sends Spike off on a questionable road trip, which Buffy interprets as a betrayal.  He allows Buffy to be tested by the Council so that he can stay in California, rather than try to fight off Travers.  He kills Ben, which is a betrayal of his role as a good guy.  I'm thinking it's more his character flaw than exactly his relationship with Buffy, although that's certainly involved. 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Dec 08 2007 07:21 am   #8LindsayH

Ok, allow me a moment of slight cheesiness here:  "Fathers be good to your daughters, cause daughters will love like you do."  Both of Buffy's father figures deal with their obstacles in the same way:  by leaving them in order to deal.  I really think Giles goes the subterfuge route because sometimes dealing with Buffy is just too difficult.  Too painful, or overwhelming, or too threatening to his sense of balance. 

As to the Faith question, even though they had made up at the end of season 7, it's more than likely that they are on the outs again.  Faith and Buffy in many ways are a lot like Dawn and Buffy:  very sisterly, but also almost maternal, and complicated and turbulent as a result.  I haven't read the issue they were talking about above, but if I were to venture a guess, I would say Buffy's motivation in feeling hurt is just that she's still feeling like, "Hey, I'm the boss, why is everyone demanding that I be the boss but not let me actually call the shots" kinda thing.  And also that her father has betrayed her again.  One of those things where no matter how old you get or how past it you think you are, it still hurts when it happens.

And if none of that makes sense, it's because I'm exhausted because I can't sleep.  Apologies for the goofy ramble.

"Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty?  It raises the dead!"--Giles, "Dead Man's Party'
Dec 08 2007 01:31 pm   #9SpikeHot

Buffy was upset because Faith tried to drain her and hated that Giles chose Faith for a mission and excluded her. She felt left out and hurt by Giles' actions. Giles also was working behind Buffy's back again, which sucked.

Dec 08 2007 06:35 pm   #10Eowyn315

I haven't read the last issue yet, but I would guess that Giles didn't tell Buffy about the mission either because he didn't want her responsible for the murder of a human and fellow Slayer, or because she would've wanted to be involved, and since Gigi's plan hinged on killing Buffy, Giles wanted to keep her as far away from Gigi as possible. So, I don't think Giles was deliberately trying to betray Buffy or work behind her back. He was trying to protect her (as usual), and Buffy misinterpreted his intentions. As far as these things go, I think it's a more forgivable attempt at "protecting" than, say, having Spike killed.

I don't know that there was necessarily any rift between Buffy and Giles before this - but from what we've seen, Giles isn't at Command Central, so maybe Buffy's feeling the same season 6/7 abandonment because Giles isn't around. And hearing that he's working closely with Faith, when he hasn't been doing the same for her, brings up all the old feelings of insecurity: Giles doesn't care, he left her when she needed him, Giles cares about the potentials more than his own Slayer, etc. And the fact that it's Faith, rather than anyone else, makes it worse.

I think there will always be some rivalry between Buffy and Faith. Sisterly is a good way to describe them - they're there for each other when they need to be (season 7), but there will always be conflict and jealousy between them. I don't think it's an accident that Buffy's been in Scotland and Faith's been in Cleveland. They're just like the family that gets along better when they only see each other at Christmas.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.