Okay, so I recently purchased the Season 3 DVDs...and imagine my amazement when I watched The Prom, and Angel's break up with Buffy, and he spoke of the need to end "this freak show". Fast forward 3 seasons to just after the second time Buffy slept with Spike, and her words to him -- "This is the end of this freak show."

To me that seems too similar to be just coincidence. What do you think?

Was this coincidence? Deliberate parallels drawn by the writers of the show? Buffy's subconscious taking out on Spike the pain that Angel put her through?

If this has already been discussed elsewhere and I missed it, let me know, but it just kind of jumped out at me.

IMHO, I think Buffy used those very words because of the effect on her that Angel's abandonment had, sort of paying forward her own pain.

Any thoughts? I'm soo curious to see what others think about this!!

*hugs*

DoS

Or at least, she thought the situation earned the same description. I don't think it's accidental, whatever the reason, that she used those exact words. The girl was totally defined by Angel. (Which is a fault I see in her, not Angel, since Buffy has total free will to make her *own* life.)

CM

Yeah, we discussed this somewhere...I wanna say double quotes, or some thread along those lines.  Anyway, no, I'd say it was totally on purpose.  I don't recall Buffy's reaction to Angel saying it, but I do recall Spike's emotional "Don't say that."  I agree with CM--I think it is a way of kind of saying Buffy is defined by Angel--Angel who left her to have something normal (insert really dull as a table lamp Riley here), which she failed at, and the only thing that seems to work for her is a soulless vampire.  Which, is not bad in my opinion in regards to this particular vampire, but of course, Buffy does not see it as such, but more as failing even more.

Exactly. She fell off the pedestal Angel had imagined for her, by being human, and by acting out. The heavy duty pressures didn't come on Buffy until she ran away post-Angelus (and came back), and she just got in this pattern of trying to be perfect so they wouldn't all have "disappointment face" again.

She'd finally started to gain some equilibrium towards the end of Season 4, and then they did the spell in Restless. Connecting to the First Slayer (her power) actually kinda screwed up Buffy the Girl - her powers grow, her humanity fades, she's losing feeling despite things not being too chaotic at the beginning of S5, and she's hunting every night. She and Riley were in a pretty good place pre-spell, and even had a chance, but increasing her Slayer side seems to be where the damage starts for the whole following 3 seasons.

Sorry for the tangent....I just recently watched most of S4 again, so everything is in mind. Reminded me of my question a while ago about Buffy being so different in attitude from the end of S4 to the beginning of S5. It was the spell - good ol' magical consequences.

Definitely don't think it's writer coincidence, considering what foreshadowing Joss has used before, and the exact phrasing. And yeah, it hurt Spike to hear it just as much as it hurt Buffy the first time.

I haven't watched Season Three in a while, but I do remember Angel breaking up with Buffy in the sewers, of all places. After he calls their relationship a freak show and insists she needs and deserves normal and if he's around she'll never get over him (arrogant jerk), Buffy is obviously in a lot of pain. She retorts to a comment a little later on in the conversation "Heart? You have a heart? It isn't even beating!" One of the few times Buffy seems angry enough with Angel to bring up that he's a vampire, what with him pretending his hardest not to be, but still not acting like a human with eating food or watching TV. Drama queen.

Right, back to the point. I think one of the reasons Buffy lashes out at Spike with that phrase is because she can see them having a relationship, not just casual sex, and if a vamp with a soul could hurt her like that, what can she expect from Spike? She is so sure by now that being with a vampire would have awful consequences, and that Spike doesn't have a soul is even worse. She wants to hurt him enough that he'll be cruel back instead of acting like someone who cares about her, which was building a friendship since she returned from Heaven. Definitely the line meant something to Buffy, not just a phrase the writers randomly came up with.

Angel was always the invisible elephant in the room IMHO.  NOT because she loved Angel or because he was right but so many of her opinions and beliefs were originated by him.  Not only the freak show comment but her views on vampires, what they are and how they think (they all kill their families, the demon replaces the human, etc.), the importance of a soul and so on.  Even the desperation for a "normal" life can be laid at Angel telling her he was leaving her so she could have that (as if it was what she SHOULD want and have).  SHE was perfectly content to be with him and even forgo sex if need be but he (and her mom) told her to look for Joe Normal.  Yes, I think she was channeling Angel through much of S6.

Kathleen

But I also think it's important to say that regardless of Angel's reasons or reasoning for leaving her and how he went about it, Buffy's actions following it in her personal life isn't Angel's fault.  And hell, if you think about it, "normal" could've meant a normal, healthy relationship that isn't always a picnic at night in a cemetery, or sex even.  I just ordered the first three seasons of Angel (mid season one now), and Angel makes tons more effort to be around in the daylight post Buffy, and more socialable (of course, this could be Cordy and Doyle's influences, but whatever).  But Spike already possessed these qualities, and he eats.  And just cause you're a vampire doesn't mean you can't take your lady to a nice restaurant or fix her breakfast (which Spike would've done the former if given the chance, and Angel does the latter for Cordy and Wes).

I think that long, slightly off tangent semi-rant boils down to is this: maybe it's just her.

Yup, Scarlet, I think we're going to keep coming back to it being Buffy no matter what. ;)  She really was clueless.

(I loved Season 1. I had just enough reference from BTVS the first time to know that Angel was really trying - especially with Doyle's prodding - to connect to humans like he hadn't before, and the little team......so much goodness there.)

CM

Buffy was just a young girl that didn't know any better when it came to love.  She thought he was her everything.  Angel is the one that should have nipped the whole thing in the bud before it started.  You really think after living for over two centuries, he would know better.  His abandonment probably effected her a lot more than she even thought.  It was probably always on her mind with Parker, Riley, and then Spike, but because he didn't have a soul, she couldn't give him a chance like she did with the others.  Instead assuming that there must be something wrong with her, which he didn't exactly help with by saying she came back wrong.  Did I mention how much I really hated that season?  I mean, the first thing Spike did after finding out the chip didn't work on her was beat her down, which probably had her thinking that he never really loved her in the first place.  Of course, she wasn't very helpful with that either and did initiate the fight.  I just think they were both horrible to each other in that season, the blame can't always be on Buffy. 

She was a young girl--initially.  And emotionally, Angel was just as immature as she was at that point.  But people grow and learn, or at least, they're supposed to.  Buffy didn't--she was too hellbent on trying to please others, or living in denial.  The whole Riley thing was really pushed by Willow, and then after (what I think) her not-so unpleasant engagement to Spike, through herself head first into the most boring relationship she could find.  And her giving someone a chance or not depends upon her--it was her choice.  She had free will.  And let's face it, Buffy initiated those fights.  Her answer and solution to everything regarding Spike, before forcing him to have sex, was to either run away, or punch him in the face.  Usually so hard, that he'd fall to the ground.  Buffy's actions can most certainly be blamed on Buffy.  She did do them, after all.

 LOL, I wouldn't call the Riley relationship boring. At every other turn, they had the Initiative stuff causing chaos. And Buffy obviously didn't find him boring - once the initial awkwardness was out of the way post-Hush (with their first kiss and then the identity reveals), she was headlong into spending time with him, and smiling while she did it. I know a lot of Spike lovers hate Riley for various reasons, or didn't understand the appeal, but Buffy was very much into the relationship in Season 4 and frequently couldn't wait to jump his bones. Watching the season reminded me (again) that Riley was a good guy dealing with things that were over his head - but he always ended up making the right choice. Frankly, I think she would have been perfectly happy with him if she hadn't been the Slayer, if a primeval force hadn't also lived in her body.

She and Angel bring out their most immature traits in each other. They're much better suited to friends or battle partners. Between the drama tendencies and martyr complexes, they compound each other's bad sides. That's why they never completed each other's personalities, like she and Spike do at their best. (It's the reason I think Cordy is perfect for Angel.)

And yeah, once you're 18, you gotta start taking responsibility for your choices, even though there's a certain amount of stupid that comes with being young. Realize that you're going to mess up, and for goodness sake, learn from it - and some people need to screw up twice to really get the point, but if you do it again? Then you're just being a dumbass. The "fool me once..., fool me twice..." principle. She stopped growing as a person and started talking with violence. Among humans, we imprison people for that. You're not allowed to keep beating on people weaker than you. It's why I don't see Buffy as a heroine or classic anti-hero. She was just a girl doing a job she hated which happened to have world-saving benefits.

It's the reason I think Cordy is perfect for Angel

EXACTLY!  I couldn't agree more; she always called him on his crap; didn't put up with his moods or his tendency to be a drama-queen.  Cordy was much better suited to Angel than Buffy ever was, and Angel always saw the real Cordy; he never put her on a pedestal like he did with Buffy.   I always LOVED the Cordy/Angel relationship, and was so sad to see it fall by the wayside in S4 of AtS.  My two favorite moments were the scene where he makes up with Cordy by buying her all the clothes, and then the scene on the bed, with baby Conner b/n the two of them, while they give him a bottle.  Plus the scene at the ballet???  HOT!   

I loved the Cordy/Angel relationship because those two always brought out the best in each other. Angel did so much more for Cordelia than he ever did for Buffy, and I think in a way she understood him better than Buffy ever did.

And it seemed to me he was a lot more upset when Cordy passed away, and when she was in a coma, than those few months that Buffy was dead.

I don't think that the "freak show" phrase was an accident.  Joss rarely let accidents happen (although, there was that really big one where Spike, the throwaway character, became Spike, the most fascinating fictional character ever conceived :-P  ).  I think that an unseemly amount of Buffy's emotional baggage was a parting gift of her relationship with Angel.  The parallels between the Buffy/Angel morning after and the Buffy/Spike morning after are gut-wrenchingly similar.  

When Buffy boinked Angel, it was supposed to be that whole, "Watch out, girls.  Guys can turn into figurative monsters after you have sex; and, if you live on the Hellmouth, they turn into actual monsters."  Angel(us) was cruel to Buffy and acted like there was nothing ever really between them.  He belittled her feelings.  Sex with a vampire turn him back into a monster and Buffy into a blubbering mess.

When Buffy boinked Spike, she turned into a monster, rejecting Spike, putting him down, calling him convenient, like his was just a vibrator kept handy on the nightstand, and even threatening to kill him.  Angle actually WAS a soulless monster.  Buffy was human with the benefit of a soul, but sex with a different vampire turn her into a monster and Spike into a blubbering mess.  I don't think that having things play out that way was an accident at all.

Here's the quote from The Prom:

ANGEL: Right, you'll always be a Slayer. But that's all the more reason why you should have a real relationship instead of this, this freak show. (Buffy is stunned.) I didn't mean that.

BUFFY: I'm gonna go.

I think the freak show comment was definitely on purpose.  Joss likes to recycle comments "You're not wrong" is a favorite.  Also, Spike has certain phrases that are later picked up by Buffy: 

Spike:  (FFL) "I was through playing by society's rules."

Buffy:  (Life Serial) "Forget it. I'm not playing by anyone else's rules any more."

She also repeats his statement that you always hurt the one you love.