BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Do you Think He Went Soft?

Feb 28 2008 01:09 pm   #1Guest
I was on another site and a girl said she didn't like Spike after season two because he went soft. Do you think falling in love with Buffy made him soft or stronger?
Feb 28 2008 01:36 pm   #2slaymesoftly
Obviously, it softened him in some ways - but Season IV Spike is the one who hired a vampire famous for targeting children to torture Angel for the ring that he had tried to use to kill Buffy.  Season III Spike was thinking about raping and turning Willow (briefly, granted), and season V Spike tried to get his chip out and immediately jumped Buffy when he thought it was gone.  The character changed somewhat, for sure, but he didn't become less of a killer until he fell in love and admitted it to himself. IMHO, anyway. LOL
There was no way for the writers to keep Spike amoral and completely evil and still incorporate him into core group. And, he was always a softy for love, anyway. I think it's one of the reasons most people fell in love with him.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 28 2008 02:14 pm   #3Guest

Oh man, so I wrote this whole thing and then my computer decided to be dumb and it all went away. Here I go trying to recreate it.

I don’t think spike “went soft” per say. I’m torn on this subject because it is one I’ve mulled over quite a bit. I personally like pre-buffy whipped spike over buffy whipped spike. I think some of his best stuff was between when dru left him and when buffy found out that he loved her. But even when he was a puddle at buffy’s feet, he still had his moments. I think that our perception of spike changed more as we got to know him, because even before buffy, he was completely devoted to dru. He’s the type of guy that’s hard as a rock on the outside but has a nice gooey middle, that he doesn’t really want people to see. As viewers, we only got a gloss over of his relationship with dru, but I think that she used him just as much as buffy but was more discreet about it. (and when I say discreet, I mean very very sneak and backstabbyish) I think spike’s biggest problem in life was that he just wanted to be loved, and that opened the gateway for any one that showed him some attention to run all over him, which dru and buffy both did. With all that said, I can see how some many people would think that being with buffy made him soft, but I don’t think that is necessarily the case. I think that he’s the kind of person that pours all he has into whatever holds his fancy. When he was with dru, she was evil so he was. Even when he was a fledge he always tried to play at the man game. He saw that angel had the power and he wanted it. Not so much to be in charge, but to show that he wasn’t as weak as others preserved him to be. I think that being with buffy just changed the direction in which his devotion was directed. On that note as well though, I don’t really think he was all that evil. We all saw that, with the exception of his brief stint as crazy basement spike, the soul didn’t change him that much overall. And finally to whether or not being with buffy made spike stronger, I think that it did. I think that when she died, it showed him that he could go on without her. as well as when he died, that there was more to life then her and that he could make it on his own. Because once he got to w & h, he was able to be his own man and even make friends, that weren’t connected to her in any way.

So, now that i'm fairly certain that was WAY more then you wanted, I’ll go now.

Feb 28 2008 03:22 pm   #4goldenusagi
If Spike went soft anytime, it was after he got the soul, which I guess was kind of the point.  He even admitted that he didn't relish killing demons as much.  And all the early insaneness didn't exactly make him terrifying.
Feb 28 2008 04:15 pm   #5Enisy
Nup. It started as early as Season 2: when Joss decided not to kill him off, he put him in a wheelchair and started deconstructing his Ultimate Cool persona. We saw this continue in Season 3, with the drinks and the sobbing and the general patheticness, then Season 4, with the chip, then Season 5, with Buffy. 2D villains are only interesting for so long; multi-layered, flawed characters are much more interesting to Joss.

Feb 28 2008 04:30 pm   #6FetchingMadScientist
If you remember, Spike was being accused of being soft even before Buffy was in the picture.  In "Lovers' Walk" a vampire, I think his name was Lenny, said that Spike was soft "...like baby food."  Spike beat the tar out of him, before staking him, for saying it.  Buffy did the same thing in "Get It Done" with a similar result.  If Spike had gone completely soft, such provocation would produce nothing.
Is Spike a "fool for love?" Yes.  Is his heart mush when it comes to that?  Yes.  Is he still a vampire?  Yes.  Is he still dangerous?  Ask Robin Wood that question.  I think he would say yes.
"Never a fetching mad scientist about when you need one." -Spike
Feb 29 2008 01:14 am   #7Immortal Beloved
I like to think of Spike as sort of like a crab, kind of menacing with the claws and the outer shell so hard you need a nutcracker (or to crack Spike's nuts) to get to the oh-so tasty meat in side.  But the biggest resemblance between Spike and a crab?  The completely unprotected, soft little underbelly :-)
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Feb 29 2008 06:43 am   #8Scarlet Ibis
I wouldn't say soft so much as layers.  Spike has many aspects to him, and to say he's just one or the other, pre soul or post, in just a tad ludicrous.  He isn't a robot or a one dimensional character--never was.  I mean, one could say he was "soft" when he offers Dru his coat when we first see him, cause there's no way she could really be cold...He's driven by his emotions, but I wouldn't call him an emotional, whiny baby.  Or "soft."
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Mar 02 2008 08:16 pm   #9LisFayte
I wouldn't call someone who could withstand the torture that Glory put him through 'soft'. I think his love for Buffy gave him strength.
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.--- e e cummings

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Mar 06 2008 06:18 pm   #10Guest
Immortal Beloved- That is a great analogy with Spike and the crab. So true.

Also, am the the only one who though dirty thoughts when I read that.  This sentence  "the outer shell so hard you need a nutcracker (or to crack Spike's nuts) to get to the oh-so tasty meat in side"  

I think you meant it to sound dirty. Yup!!!!!!

I don't like crab though. My brother-in-law does. He is the one who got me to try crab. It wasn't for me. I will Spike though. Yummy
Mar 07 2008 04:15 am   #11Immortal Beloved
I think you meant it to sound dirty.

I didn't mean it when I typed it; but, after I finished the sentence, yeah, my mind did go there :-P 

I, however, love crab ;-)
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.