BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Myers-Briggs Typing of Characters

Oct 16 2008 03:23 pm   #1BreathesStory
So, I'm working on a story and as an attempt to get more into my characters heads, I thought I would try to 'type' them.  I am not a professional in the field.  I'm an artist with way too many side interests.  My qualifications?  Well, I own and have read the book Gifts Differing by Isabel Briggs Myers and Peter B. Myers that explains the theory and have read it numerous times.  That, and I think.

My guesses:

Giles = ISTP
Willow = ISFJ
Buffy = ENFJ
Xander = ESFJ
Spike = INFP
Reilly = ESTJ
Joyce = ESTJ
Angel = ENFJ

None of which of course means that any of the characters are in the 'healthy' state for their particular type.

Anyone else think about this stuff?

Anyone else who knows about Myers-Briggs have an alternative idea concerning  their types?

And me?  Well, I'm an INFJ who is extremely true to type.
It's not the thing you fling, it's the fling itself.
Oct 16 2008 04:09 pm   #2Guest
Angel's a funny one to type, as Liam was Extroverted, Angelus was Extroverted, then you have Angel being extremely uncomfortable around people......he makes himself an Introvert because of the guilt of the soul and not being human. He doesn't have an easy time talking to people or talking about himself unless he is close to that person, so I think you have to start Angel at Introvert.

(It's, uh, Riley, by the way, in spelling. :) )  I haven't gone over the test since college so I'm not remembering all the descriptions very well. Can't even remember my own score, LOL.

CM
Oct 16 2008 04:46 pm   #3BreathesStory
My understanding of the introvert/extrovert preference is that people base their perception and judgment on their relative interests in either the outer(E) or inner(I) world.  It doesn't really have anything to do with the maturity of one's social skills.  Angel's admittedly do suck.

I placed Angel in the extrovert category because of his destroy the world/save the world interest (people and things.)  It's still about the outside world as opposed to the inner world of ideas and concepts that interest him the most, as opposed to Giles, Willow, and Spike.  They are interested in knowledge, words, and love.

The one I am really unsure of is Joyce.  There just wasn't very much screen time for her to divulge her motivations and preferences.

Oops on the 'Reily' spelling - missed that one.  ( side note: How does one edit a previous post anyway?)
It's not the thing you fling, it's the fling itself.
Oct 17 2008 12:19 am   #4Eowyn315
My understanding of the introvert/extrovert preference is that people base their perception and judgment on their relative interests in either the outer(E) or inner(I) world. It doesn't really have anything to do with the maturity of one's social skills.
That wasn't my understanding of it, although admittedly, my only experience with Myers-Briggs was working in a college career counseling office. But I did grade an awful lot of those tests, lol. Anyway, the way the E/I was explained to me is where you get your strength from. Are you energized by a crowd of people, or do you feel drained, like you need to retreat in order to recover? It's not directly measuring social skills, but it may be related, since if you're not good with people, making the effort to be social may seem taxing. I've never heard it defined as interest in the outer or inner world.

By my definition, then, I would peg Spike as an E - he craves attention and affection from other people. He never needs alone time to "recharge"; rather, he prefers to be part of a group.

I'm still not sure about Angel. I think I would put him as an I, even as Angelus. He enjoys his solitude, and doesn't seem to seek out company - even when he turns people, he doesn't seem bothered when they eventually leave him.

How does one edit a previous post anyway?
You should see a little box in the lower right hand corner of your post that says "Edit."
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 17 2008 01:47 am   #5BreathesStory
(How'd I miss the edit box? *hangs head in shame*)

Okay, gone back to my book.  Hmmm. Think you might be right Eowyn315 about Spike - E instead of I.  I think I was all caught up in thinking about his base growing out of 'William' what with the 'poetry thing' and the 'love thing.'  I never considered that he could have been an underdeveloped E.  I suppose really, he only truly became his own 'man' when he became a vampire.

Extraverts:

"...the people of action and practical acheivement, who go from doing to considering back to doing."
"Understandable and accessible, more at home in the world of people and things than the world of ideas."
"Spend themselves lavishly upon external claims and conditions which to them constitute life."

"External claims" does sound a bit like Dru and then Buffy.

Introverts:

"...the people of ideas and abstract invention, who go from considering to doing and back to considering."
"Subtle and impenetrable, often taciturn and shy, more at home in the world of ideas than in the world of people and things."
"Defend themselves as far as possible against external claims and conditions in favor of the inner life."

(quotes  form the notes of Katherine C. Briggs in Gifts Differing pg.56)

Yeah, Angel is tough.  A lot of what we see could just be because he's just really, really depressed and needs some meds, or possibly because he's undeveloped and hasn't truely embraced his preferences. Maybe an 'I' though.

"The conduct of extraverts is based on the outer situation.  If they are thinkers, they tend to criticize or analyze or organize it; feeling types may champion it, protest against it, or try to mitigate it; sensing types may enjoy it, use it, or good naturally put up with it; and intuitives tend to try to change it.  In any case, the extravert starts with the outer situation.

The introvert, however, starts farther back--with the inner ideas, the mental concepts."  (GD pg.53)

"Because introverts' energies are powerfully directed by their ideas, it is supremely important for introverts to have the 'right idea' about things.  their characteristic pause before action, which extraverts carelessly call hesitation, serves a real puprpose.  It gives time to study and classify a new situation so that the action will make sense in the long run.  Problems arise for the introverts because they often do not look closely enough at the outer situation and, therefore, do not really see it.  The extraverts often do not stop looking at the specific situation long enough to see the underlying idea."  (GD pg.54)

So, I guess that would make Spike tentatively...ENFJ and Angel...I something, something, something.  Would you say Angel percieve the world primarily through his intuition (N)or through his senses(S)?  Does he prefer to make decisions based on feeling(F) or thinking(T)? I never really got into AtS and have really only seen Season 5 once--cuz you know...Spike!

(What a lot of copying and quoting!  All errors are due to my fumble fingers.)

It's not the thing you fling, it's the fling itself.
Oct 17 2008 02:45 am   #6Eowyn315
"...the people of action and practical acheivement, who go from doing to considering back to doing."
So would it be fair to say that extroverts are people who act before they think? Yeah, that definitely sounds like Spike, lol.

I do think Angel's an I, after reading your quotes. Isn't brooding really just melancholy considering? :) I'd also say he's an N and a T - he seems to have a very "go with his gut" sense of right and wrong, but he's kind of detached in the way he makes the decisions. He definitely cares about people and wants to do what's right, but he doesn't always consider the needs of other people involved - it's often "my way or the highway" with him. And I'm gonna go with J, because he seems to work well with a plan or a goal - when he tries to just go with the flow, he ends up eating rats in an alley.

I think the same type works for Angelus, too - he's also contemplative, willing to stalk his victims for months before striking, studying them to find the most painful way to destroy them. In order to do that, he has to be good at spotting patterns and relationships, strategic in nature, but also creative.

So, final answer - Angel/Angelus: INTJ.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 17 2008 03:03 am   #7Immortal Beloved
So would it be fair to say that extroverts are people who act before they think? Yeah, that definitely sounds like Spike, lol.

If that's the case, then Spike would be the poster child for extroverts :-P

This is a good topic.  I'm too pooped to go brushing up on my Meyers-Briggs right now, but this does get me thinking.

Hmph.  Guess I'm a Thinker :-P
Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Oct 17 2008 03:40 pm   #8BreathesStory
Hmmm.  Not quite convinced about Angel being an intuitive(N) vs. sensing(S).

Some quotes from Gifts Differing:

"Anyone preferring sensing to intuition is interested primarily in actualities; anyone preferring intuition to sensing is mainly interested in possibilities." (GD pg 57)

"The sensing types, by definition, depend on their five senses for perception.  Whatever comes directly from the senses is part of the sensing types' own experience and is therefore trustworthy.  What comes from other people indirectly through the spoken or written word is less trustworthy.  Words are merely symbols that have to be translated into reality before they mean anything, and therefore carry less conviction than experience.

The intuitives are comparatively uninterested in sensory reports of things as they are.  Instead, intuitives listen for the intuitions that come up from their unconsciousness with enticing views of possibilities.  (GD pg 57)

There's a table with the effect of the SN preference and it is way too long for my lousy typing skills to type in full.  I'm having  a little trouble deciding what might be helpful in illustrating  Angel's character since I really don't feel I have a handle on his personality at all but...here are some samples.  Discuss!...

Sensing Types:

Face life obsevantly, craving enjoyment.

Are by nature pleasure lovers and consumers, loving life as it is and having a great capacity for enjoyment; they are in general contented.

Dislike intensely any and every occupation that requires the suppression of sensing, and are most reluctant to sacrifice present enjoyment to future gain or good.

Desire chiefly to possess and enjoy, and being very observant, they are imitative, wanting to have what other people have and to do what other people do, and are very dependent on their physical surroundings.

Intuitive Types:

Face life expectantly, craving inspiration.

Are by nature initiators, inventors, and promoters; having no taste for life as it is, and small capacity of living as it is, and small capacity for living in and enjoying the present, they are generally restless.

Dislike intensely and every occupation that necessitates sustained concentration on sensing, and are willing to sacrifice the present to a large extent since they neither live in it nor particularly enjoy it.

Desiring chiefly opportunities and possibilities, and being very imaginative, they are inventive and original, quite indifferent to what other people have and do, and are very independent of their physical surroundings.  (all taken from the notes of Katherine C. Briggs GD pg 63)

I can see your point though, Eowyn315.  Angel did give up the actuality of being human and therefore being with Buffy for some unknown and very sketchy possibilities.  Not to mention there is that whole chasing after the Shanshu thing.

I think both Angel and Angelus have the same type.  Their energies are the same, just directed differently.

Any ideas on Joyce?  *hopeful begging smile*

(disclaimer:  all unfortunate misquotes are my fault)
It's not the thing you fling, it's the fling itself.
Oct 17 2008 07:49 pm   #9Eowyn315
Face life obsevantly, craving enjoyment. Are by nature pleasure lovers and consumers, loving life as it is and having a great capacity for enjoyment; they are in general contented.
This to me sounds like the exact opposite of Angel. He was constantly denying himself pleasure and was determined not to enjoy anything. I could seen Angelus being of the enjoyment/pleasure loving type, but I think this passage describes Angelus' attitude toward vampirism and his victims:
Desiring chiefly opportunities and possibilities, and being very imaginative, they are inventive and original, quite indifferent to what other people have and do, and are very independent of their physical surroundings.
He's portrayed as being imaginative, almost artful, in torturing his victims, and he doesn't seem to care that this is completely contrary to what most vampires do (Spike with his gleeful violence and "I liked the crunch" seems more in keeping with the general vampire temperament).

I agree about Angel giving up the actuality of being human and the goal of the Shanshu. Particularly when Spike's around, he also seems very focused on where he's going to go after he dies (he assumes hell), which would indicate lack of focus on the present. (But on the other hand, he said, "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." ) But mostly, I think Angel is preoccupied with the past - how come there's no type for that? The choices seem to be present or future.

Joyce, sorry... I really have no idea. I just don't think I know enough about her character to figure it out. Well, let's see - she has to be at least somewhat independent, since she was willing to leave her husband and move to Sunnydale, raising her child(ren) on her own. She's also proud of Buffy when she takes charge and shows initiative (School Hard), so she probably values leadership skills and quick thinking. She's somewhat uncertain about her parenting skills - she relies on self-help books and often has to give herself pep talks in the early episodes after dealing with Buffy. She spends a long time in denial about Buffy's Slayerness and the existence of vampires, so she's probably a bit stubborn. Would that also maybe show a lack of trust in facts or data, since she ignored all the evidence (the fights, blood on Buffy's clothes, not to mention actually seeing vampires in game face and having one dusted before her eyes)? We never really see what convinces her, but I get the feeling it was something she just went with on gut instinct, rather than weighing the evidence and going, "Oh, yes, it's more logical that all those things were because of vampires." Also similar is her reaction to Dawn not being her daughter - it doesn't make any sense, but she can feel that it's true.

What else? She doesn't seem to make friends easily - only one that I can think of, and we only know of two boyfriends (one of whom was a robot) since her divorce. When she's sick, she tries to play it off like it's no big deal, doesn't want others to worry. She owns an art gallery, but doesn't show any artistic talent of her own, which could mean either she doesn't have any and just appreciates art, or she is talented but maybe embarrassed to show it.

I don't know, does that fit anything in your book? I was rereading the descriptions of the types you listed for the other characters, and I only got as far as Xander, but they seemed pretty accurate.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 17 2008 09:04 pm   #10Guest
Yeah, Angel's totally an Intuitive.

Joyce actually doesn't talk very independently about moving to Sunnydale - she blames Buffy for changing her (Joyce's) life in L.A., that they HAD to go somewhere else, and Joyce HAD to find a job here and leave all she knew......much of her parenting time during the high school years never seemed to me like she took responsibility as the parent. She wasn't just blind to the Slaying, she barely knew about the rest of Buffy's life, either, which means they didn't even chat about casual things over breakfast. As long as Buffy didn't show up arrested or pregnant and the principal's office didn't call, Joyce would have gone on happily ignorant of whatever Buffy did as a minor. Over night, she's a different type parent once Buffy is in college. :-/  *Now* she wants to be involved in Buffy's life. She's pretty judgmental pre the college years, too.

CM
Oct 18 2008 02:21 am   #11Eowyn315
Joyce actually doesn't talk very independently about moving to Sunnydale - she blames Buffy for changing her (Joyce's) life in L.A., that they HAD to go somewhere else, and Joyce HAD to find a job here and leave all she knew
True, but she didn't have to set up house on her own. She could've moved in with family (we know Buffy has an Aunt Pauline, presumably Joyce's sister, since I doubt she'd visit Hank's relatives), or depending on who actually left who, she could've chosen to stay with Hank despite their differences because she didn't want to be on her own.

much of her parenting time during the high school years never seemed to me like she took responsibility as the parent.
I disagree. I think she was ignorant of a lot of what was going on in Buffy's life, but not for lack of trying. Buffy definitely did her best to keep secrets and make sure her mom didn't know what was going on. Joyce was always the one to initiate the mother-daughter chats. She made sure to punish Buffy whenever she DID find out Buffy was misbehaving. And when she finds out about the slaying, she seems very frustrated at Buffy's unwillingness to explain - "I'm tired of 'I don't have time' and 'You wouldn't understand.'" - that makes it sound like she's been trying to talk to Buffy for a while now, and Buffy's been pushing her away. She's certainly not going to win any parenting awards, but I don't think she was "happily ignorant" at all.

Over night, she's a different type parent once Buffy is in college.
Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about. If anything, I'd say she's less involved when Buffy's in college. Joyce is barely even in that season, and when she is, it's clear that Buffy seldom goes home to visit. She gives Buffy a hard time for not bringing Riley around until the end of season 4, but that's about the only time she wants to be "involved."

ETA: I think she's more involved in season 3, when Buffy's in her senior year. Which makes sense, since Buffy's now being open about the slaying, so she's probably not as secretive, allowing Joyce to be more involved. Plus, she's now got one more thing to worry about, besides how Buffy is doing in school and who she's dating, etc. - she's also worrying about Buffy getting killed, so she's going to keep tabs on her a lot better. Senior year is also when the "future plans" issues come up, so it's natural that she'd take an interest in that aspect of Buffy's life as well.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 18 2008 02:58 am   #12Guest
The few times we saw her in Season 4, the vibe was different...that she was Buffy's friend more than "the parent".

Trying to talk to Buffy about specific info is a bit different than the casual fun times, the little stuff that keeps you bonded as mother and daughter. Joyce's tone was always "I want to know what you've been up to", not "Hey, what's up today?" I was the only girl of a single mom, so I know what it can be like, how you learn to stick together because there is no one else. Joyce is much softer towards Buffy once she's no longer under her roof.....and then Season 5 makes her look like an angel of a mother. A lot of Buffy not talking at all, and clamming up more and more is because she felt she couldn't share a single part of it....and she gave up, giving the patented teen responses. If she couldn't even feel comfortable telling her mother about the funny thing Xander did today, etc., there was something majorly wrong. They just never seemed to have a good time together.......and that's a fault on both sides.

CM
Oct 18 2008 06:29 pm   #13Eowyn315
Well, that's just natural, isn't it? That, as you grow up, your mother becomes less like a parent and more like a friend? I know when I was a teenager, my mother was the stupidest person on the planet - she just didn't understand what it was like to be me - I hated her butting into my life, and I didn't even have a huge life-threatening secret like Buffy. In fact, I remember her asking me how school was, and every time I'd respond with something like "It was school." "What'd you do today?" "Nothing." And then she'd roll her eyes at me.

Now that I'm older - and out of the house, which I think is a big factor - she's cool, rarely tells me what to do unless I ask for advice, and is somebody I like to hang out with just for fun.(Amazing how the older you get, the smarter your parents get, isn't it?)

So I don't really think it's unusual for their relationship to change - it's not really any different than most teenagers and their parents, save for the Slayer aspect.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.