BSV Forum - General - Episode Discussions

Older and Far Away

Feb 20 2009 03:16 am   #1Spikez_tart
First scene - Incredibly Buffy taunts the demon she's fighting - Run off, huh? Afraid to face a true warrior?   I can't remember another time before this when she identifies herself as a warrior.  I'm sure Scarlet can find something tho. :)  She seems positive and happy to be a fighter.  She admires the sword and keeps it.  Later, her favorite birthday gift is not that snazzy black leather jacket (mate to Spike's coat?) but the beautiful weapons chest that Xander makes for her. 

Buffy specifically asks to have Tara come to her party.  Willow tells Spike to come to the party, or at least she mentions it.  Buffy and Xander both invite strangers, who prove to be lame.  Tara teases Spike and eggs him on.  People are all relating to others that aren't their normal companions.

Spike - (aside from have a major attack of jealousy) why isn't Spike just busting his buttons?  Tara plainly knows that he and Buffy are together.  Buffy has told one of the gang.  Isn't this the moment he's been waiting for?  Why doesn't he mention it or thank her or something?  He spends the whole night with her, he plays cards with her and no one gets upset at him.  He catches her during one of the fights and no doubt cops a feel.  They even have a normal boy/girl kind of argument.  Buffy asks someone (possibly Spike) if he's hurt.  Joss is probably just building up the sweetness and light so he can rip it down in the next show, but pleasant while it lasts.  In fact, thru most of the evening, Spike proves that he can play well with others in not too extreme situations.

Also, how does Spike recognize Halfrek in demon face?  And, at one point, Spike saves Xander.  No thanks given, of course.

Everyone is nervous.  Buffy's nervous about Spike,  Willow's nervous about Tara.  Tara's nervous about Willow.  Spike is nervous about Richard.  Dawn is nervous about her shoplifting spree.  Xander is nervous about inviting Richard.  Richard is nervous about Buffy.  Sophie is nervous about making a good impression and allergies.  It takes a lot to move Anya off base, but eventually she has a sort of panic attack.  Clem remains angst free.

Dawn is a big fat pain - oh I didn't know the shoplifter's tag was still on the coat.  Moron.

Willow really burns me.  They're trapped in the house, being attacked by a crazy killer demon and they can't get out.  When exactly would she be prepared to do something?  Assuming Buffy could kill the demon, would she be able to kill it before Richard dies of his injuries or before someone else gets hurt and killed?  Once the demon is gone, they're still stuck in the house.  Is Willow going to wait until they starve to death?  I wanted to slap her.  She's just wrong.  It's nice that Tara backs her up, but Tara is just wrong, too.



If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Feb 20 2009 03:30 am   #2Scarlet Ibis
I can't remember another time before this when she identifies herself as a warrior. I'm sure Scarlet can find something tho. :)
Honestly?  I have no idea.  I find this particularly OOC for her s6 personality (which I've divorced from her personality as a whole for the rest of the series).

Isn't this the moment he's been waiting for? Why doesn't he mention it or thank her or something?
I don't think Spike's aware.  And if he was, Buffy telling Tara cause she wanted to be shamed?  Not something I'd thank my secret SO for.

He catches her during one of the fights and no doubt cops a feel. They even have a normal boy/girl kind of argument. Buffy asks someone (possibly Spike) if he's hurt.
I don't think he copped a feel.  He looked quite winded....And I'm sure the "are you hurt?" comment was directed at Xander and not Spike.  I wouldn't give Buffy that much credit for wanting to check on Spike.  Okay, to be fair, I'd give her no credit.

In fact, thru most of the evening, Spike proves that he can play well with others in not too extreme situations.
There actually isn't any point in time through season six up to that point that proves the contrary--Spike gets along with the Scoobies, and has been doing so since, well, since they were on the run from Glory really.  Again, Buffy thinking that Spike wouldn't fit in...I know she'd been away, but Jeebus H.--things had changed.  Spike didn't have to be on the outside.  If Buffy had invited Spike to go to the Bronze with her friends, no one would have said a word.  This is what pisses me off all the more...

Also, how does Spike recognize Halfrek in demon face?
Scent, maybe?  We have no idea what did or didn't happen between them after he was turned, or if she was a vengeance demon while William had a crush on her...it was a lot of gaps with that one.   I think they just wanted to acknowledge using the same actress on the show, as opposed to ignoring it like Law and Order or something.

I agree about the Willow thing...Going cold turkey was not the way to go, but her friends didn't give her any other options.  In the time of an emergency, Anya was right.  Willow should have just did something.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Feb 20 2009 03:40 am   #3slaymesoftly
I loved all the interaction between Spike and the others in this episode. Especially the flirty, friendly stuff with Buffy. Their moments were very boy/girl friendy.  I don't know that he necessarily would have realized that Tara had been told about them.  He appeared surprised and confused by her teasing, but not as pleased as he might have been if he thought Buffy'd told her about them. Of course, in one my fics about the never ending party, I have him rather shrewdly and bitterly guess exactly why Buffy told Tara about them...so it could have happened and still not made him happy. But he was cheerful throughout, so I suspect he was just happy to be there and be accepted as someone with a right to come to Buffy's birthday party.  It was a welcome, pleasant interlude during a season that had very few of them.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 20 2009 04:28 am   #4Spikez_tart
I don't know that he necessarily would have realized that Tara had been told about them. - maybe I over interpreted.  Tara seemed pretty obvious, with all that stuff about "cramp in your pants." 
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Feb 20 2009 01:50 pm   #5slaymesoftly
Oh, I didn't mean that he wasn't picking up on the fact that she seemed to know something - he was. Hence the confusion on his part.  I pictured him as becoming more and more curious and concerned (because he knows, much as he wants it, Buffy does not want anyone to know) as the evening went on and Tara's comments make it obvious that she has guessed or learned something. I just don't think he would have jumped to thinking that Buffy had told her, nor that he would be immediately happy about it if he had. That just wasn't the vibe I got. Having a good time, yes; enjoying some almost normal girl/boy time with Buffy, yes; being accepted as part of the gang, yes; surprised by Tara's teasing, yep; but I suspect just the fact that he was there, welcome, and not being punched in the nose was responsible for his apparent enjoyment of the evening. Tara did catch them in a semi-compromising position and instead of freaking out, made jokes about it - so that surprised him. But, it's Tara, and she's non-judgmental and perceptive, so I don't know that he would immediately assume she'd been told, just that she'd figured it out.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 21 2009 06:00 pm   #6Messiah
First scene - Incredibly Buffy taunts the demon she's fighting - Run off, huh? Afraid to face a true warrior? I can't remember another time before this when she identifies herself as a warrior.

Well, Buffy doesn't call herself a warrior but...


WILLOW: It's the only way to stop the pain. I can't take it anymore... But I know you, Buffy. You're a warrior... You won't go out without a fight. I don't really have time for one. But you *should* go out fighting.
Also, how does Spike recognize Halfrek in demon face?

I think Scarlet's right. Probably by smell.
Maybe they previously met after she became a demon? I don't think she was a demon while he was infatuated with her... Or maybe she was?
I just think she would have done like Anya-- wonder around the world, going from place to place, wreak wrath every which way.

There's also the episode 'Selfless'  where  Anya has a flashback and Halfrek is there and the year is 1905. She could have been turned a little while after William was.

- If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your own ambition..

-The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.

- A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend.


Feb 21 2009 11:19 pm   #7sosa lola

- Another night, another time Buffy blows Dawn off for slaying/work. Dawn tries her best to be supportive, I love her for that, but eventually all that sadness and loneliness building up inside will blow up in the worst possible time.

- Who's baby-sitting Dawn here? Willow is at the Magic Box, so now it's okay to treat Dawn like her real age?

- Aw, it's adorable that Xander is asking Willow if it was okay to invite Tara to the party, being concerned for her, and considerate to Buffy's feelings since "she really wants her there. It seems important to her."

- Why doesn't Dawn ask Janice to go with her seeing as everybody was busy with work?

- DAWN: (quietly) Yeah. Kinda. (looks up) I-I mean, yes. People keep ... people have a tendency to go away ... and, I miss them. And sometimes ... I wish I could just make them stop. Going away.

Poor Dawnie. She does seem to have the same abandonment issues that Buffy has. First her dad leaves, then her mom, then Buffy, then Giles and Tara, and now everybody is growing up, having jobs, staying away.

- I love Buffy's excitement to seeing Tara arrive, their blossoming friendship is so adorable. Tara now is the only person Buffy feels comfortable talking honestly to, she's her new best friend at this point.

- So cute! Willow is trying to look her best for Tara. And how awkwardly adorable they were together. Hee

- Either Willow invited Spike over or Spike decided to arrive uninvited, bringing another friend over. Why didn't Dawn bring Janice exactly? Almost everybody is bringing someone to the party.

- Hee at Spike's jealousy, and was Tara being mean when she said that Richard was cute? She certainly takes delight out of embarrassing and annoying Spike. Seems this girl is on Buffy's side, lol.

- DAWN: What, you mean the guy you invited to set her up with?
ANYA: Nothing.
DAWN: It's not like I don't understand why you invited him. I was there, remember? I can hear you when I'm in the room, you know? (Anya just nodding) I do understand these things.
ANYA: (patronizing) Yes you do! (patting Dawn on the head)
DAWN: You know I'm in high school, right?
ANYA: Yes you are!

Anya here is shown to be treating Dawn like a child. A recurring theme in the show.

- LOL, Spike can't be serious, having sex in the foyer, with everyone around?

- SPIKE: Oh, what, you worried about Richard? You don't wanna make your new boyfriend jealous, huh?

Obviously, Richard isn't the jealous one. *smooches Spike*

- SPIKE: You think he'll take you out on his ten-speed, pet? (to himself) Maybe he'll let you ride in that little basket in the front. (scoffs) Jealous my ass.

He's adorable!

- Oh, I'll take the battery-operated back massager and the black leather jacket. Buffy can keep the weapon chest, it appears to be her favorite gift anyway.

- Anyone else saw that Tara was the only one who noticed Dawn's disappointment when Buffy forgot her present to Aww Xander's?

- Hee, love Anya's impolite "Our friend is better." She reminded me of Monica from Friends.

- I kinda got as grossed out as Willow with the Xanya loving… urgh, they reminded me of the folks who go "No, you hang up." "No, you hang up."

- ANYA: I wanna bankrupt somebody. (Buffy giving her a sour look)

Wait until S8, Buffy ;)

- Notice how Spike's presence is welcomed in the party, no one objected on him being around –except Buffy, initially- it would've been the perfect time to tell the gang about her and Spike, but sadly Buffy isn't ready to come out yet.

- Also notice how Tara came to Buffy's rescue when Spike suggested the late-night activities. Tara is obviously on Buffy's side, giving Spike a hard time with the teasing so he won't cross the line with the naughtiness. :D

- Dawn's happy smile with everyone being around warms my heart. Poor kid.

- Spike reminds me of Xander in high school years with all the jealousy. He just can't leave poor Richard alone.

- SPIKE: What are you gonna do, beat me up again?

Go Spike!!! :)

- BUFFY: I should have thrown you out the second you got here. I was insane to ever think you could just hang out with my friends.

C'mon, Buffy. He got along just fine with your friends. He's only rude to Richard, because of jealousy. Right now he's Xander to Richard's Angel.

- Okay, I understand Dawn's loneliness. She's a teenager who lost so many important people in her life and tries as hard as she can to hang into those who are left. But her behavior still makes me grit my teeth, can't she distinguish between adults needing to work and go to college and NOT wanting to spend time with her? And btw doesn't she have important things to so as well like, I don't know, go to school?

- XANDER: Well, 'cause you know, sometimes we do something that seems like a good idea at the time, like, say, invoke the power of a musical amulet? And it turns out, you know, not so much.

Nice to see Xander learning from his mistake.

- I get how Anya feels. I hate being trapped, small rooms also freak me out, also hate using the elevator. Good thing she has a sweet fiancé like Xander to take care of her. Their scene is so adorable.

- Aww, Spike tries to save Xander's life.

- Double awws for Xander forgetting all about his injured arm to comfort Anya. He loves her so much it's adorable. I loved how he kept whispering "I'm okay. See? Shh. It's all right. I'm okay." *hugs Xander*

- Notice how Buffy watches Xander comforting Anya wistfully. She wants to have that kind of love, and she does have it – remembers Spike sweetly singing to her about life in OMWF- but she's too stubborn and scared to accept it.

- When Buffy ordered Dawn to stay with Spike, I wish Dawn did. I miss the Dawn/Spike friendship, and they stopped acting like close friends, it's annoying me.

- Buffy has all these friends? And Dawn doesn't have friends? She had that friend in S5 and that Kevin kid seemed interested in her. And this season she has Janice. Apparently, Dawn can make friends but she's too busy clinging to Buffy and her friends (her family).

- Who says Xander never picks Anya's side? He did in this episode, and against his best friend for that matter.

- Anya being shocked and hurt that Dawn stole from her shop, reminding Dawn that she had taken care of her, shows how much they'd probably gotten closer during the summer. Also, reflects on Anya's behavior earlier, not wanting to tell Dawn about Buffy's setup, protecting Dawn from "grown up" stuff.

- Anya's punches look far stronger than Spike's when she's hitting the demon. LOL

- Halfrek was the one who remembered Spike (William), perhaps the pitch of her voice and the way she pronounced his name reminded him of Cicely.

- Where was Halfrek when little Xander, little Faith, and little Tara needed her? All three had abusive parents. And for that matter where was she when Hank abandoned Buffy, and Willow was left alone in her house because her parents traveled a lot and neglected her?

- Love the smile Buffy and Dawn shared in the end. Sweet.

Feb 22 2009 02:48 am   #8Spikez_tart
Good point, Sosa - Where was Halfrek when the Slayerettes needed her?  Plainly falling down on her job.  Maybe D'Hoffryn didn't hire enough vengance demons that year. 

I just don't think he would have jumped to thinking that Buffy had told her, nor that he would be immediately happy about it if he had.  - Sighs, that's a good point. 

Dawn - She's plenty old enough to know that Buffy and the rest have lives and what teenager in the world would want to spend time with her icky older sister and her sister's friends. 
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Feb 22 2009 11:26 am   #9sosa lola
Dawn - She's plenty old enough to know that Buffy and the rest have lives and what teenager in the world would want to spend time with her icky older sister and her sister's friends.

I think it's more about Dawn clinging to her family. She's lost so many, she's afraid she'd lose more. I think if it was early S5, Dawn wouldn't have cared much about Buffy and the others having more important things than spend time with her, I don't think she'd want to spend time with them. At that time Dawn hadn't lost anyone but her dad, she still felt secured and happy. Right now, she's scared and vulnerable.