Willow and Oz and Devon are packing the van when Harmony shows up.  Willow, after getting a surprise bite whips out her cross.  Okay, what happened to being Jewish?  She couldn't have whipped out a Star of David?  Bugs me.

I kinda feel bad for Jews. They don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter! I’m not religious or anything but I still celebrate those holidays because it’s fun.

I get to put up lights, decorate trees, go into shops I normally don’t go into… Drink nog and eat hors d’oeuvres at parties lol

Buffy and Parker - Parker sucks totally.  And, Buffy couldn't have thought of a better lie about her neck scar than an angry puppy?  Not like she hasn't had time to think about it. 

Buffy isn’t really renowned for using her brain much in the show. Thinking something up that is half decent would involve imagination—which I don’t think Buffy has a lot of..

 

Willow and bad love advice - Once more Willow pushes Buffy in the direction of an unsuitable guy and will again.  Willow encourages Buffy to have sex with Angel, then with Parker, then practically throws Riley at Buffy (denying it all the time).  Buffy may have bad taste in men, but her bestest friend isn't exactly helping out.  Is this some kind of subconscious nastiness from Willow to get back at Buffy for being pretty and cheer leader material?

Nah no way!

I think Willow is just as lost as Buffy when it comes to love and matchmaking.

Look at how Willow treated Tara in season 6—She may have be the one for her but she wasn’t always the best lover. She hadn’t yet learned how to appreciate what she had.

Spike - tunnels - jewelry - Okay Spike digs a big tunnel to get into a crypt.  Why?  Wouldn't it be easier to just bust into the crypt?  Of course it would, which leads me to think that Joss already had the big S7 finale planned in S4 and maybe before.  The alternative would be that the writers got to S7 and said let's look back and see what crazy thing Spike did that we can use as foreshadowing. 

What do u mean he already had the S7 finale planed out? I don’t understand what your saying here O_O

Xander and Anya - okay, I know, I know, young men -  a woman stops by your basement pad and drops her dress, pretty hard to resist, but really, Anya is just obnoxious here.  Why does he allow the relationship to continue?  Could it be that Xander (still carrying that Buffy torch) consistently takes up with girls that he doesn't really like because he knows they will never replace Buffy in his heart?  Cordelia - Faith - Anya. 

Well boys will be boys. And Anya isn’t that bad… And maybe what you said is true. But I think after a time when he realized he loved Anya, he got over his Buffy crush.

Like the scene in the episode where they lose their voices. Xander thinks Spike is drinking Anya’s blood so he decides to pummel him.

I think that’s when he realized he truly loved her.

Buffy kisses Parker - Buffy is in the driver's seat in her relationships, such as they are.  She prods Angel into having sex when he's willing to wait.  She kisses Parker first.  She kisses Spike first too in their fun romp in the abandoned house.  Riley's the exception.  I don't think she kisses him first, which only proves that she isn't all that interested or is only interested in him because he's boring and normal and she thinks that's going to get her somewhere.

I think you hit right on here J

Spike and Buffy - An excellent fight that Spike is able to bring to Buffy's turf - the sunlight.  Of course if he knew that Buffy had cut off Mrs. Post's hand in an earlier fight he might have thought twice about sticking that ring on his finger.  His jealousy is already coming out as he abuses her about sleeping with Parker.  And, there's an insinuation that Spike would treat Buffy better himself if he was in Parker's shoes. 

SPIKE: Getting tired Slayer?

(The fight continues. Xander arrives.)

BUFFY: Xander, get out of here.

(Spike grabs him, knees him in the face, and sends him flying.)

SPIKE: So, you let Parker take a poke, eh? Didn't seem like you know each other that well. What did it take to pry apart the Slayer's dimpled knees?

BUFFY: You're a pig Spike.

SPIKE: Did he play the sensitive lad and get *you* to seduce him? That's a good trick if the girl's thick enough to buy it.

(Buffy flies up and delivers a roundhouse, however Spike follows it with an equally vicious hit that sends her flying forward.)

SPIKE: I wonder what went wrong. Were you too strong? Did you bruise the boy? Whatever. I guess you're not worth a second go. Come to think of it seems like someone told me that. Who was it? Oh, yeah. Angel.

(More fighting, then she grabs the arm with the ring on it. )

SPIKE: Take it off me this way, we both burn.

BUFFY: Really? Let's see.

If there was an insinuation there, I didn’t catch it :P

But most guys would be like that to a pretty girl. They like to brag about their balls and skills.

It’s fairly normal macho behavior.

Xander - Once again, Xander shows up when Buffy is getting her ass kicked (and may not win) and he's the only one of the Scoobies to appear.  Spike gets to clock him.  Very satisfying.

LOL you sadist!

The Gem - Does anyone think it was a good idea for Buffy to give this stupid ring to Angel?  Yeah, it was fun to see Spike run amok in Los Angeles, but really, Angel could go off the tracks any time.

Yeah, well…. That’s Buffy not using her brain again :P

Another thing:

BUFFY: Well, um you didn't call. I'd, uh I understand if you were busy or sick or something.

PARKER: It's only been a few days. You need to talk to me about something.

BUFFY: Is everything okay?

PARKER: Sure it is.

BUFFY: It is?

PARKER: Sure.

Buffy; Oh, um, so maybe do you wanna do something?

PARKER: Sure, we could do that, absolutely.

BUFFY: So what about tonight.

PARKER: Oh... Uh... I think I'm supposed to get together with some people later ...

BUFFY: Parker did I do something wrong?

PARKER: Something wrong? No, of course not. It was fun. Didn't you have fun? Watch out how you answer that. My ego is fragile.

BUFFY: You had fun? Was that all it was?

Look at what she says above!! OMG does she not see it??

PARKER: What else was it supposed to be?

BUFFY: It seemed like you liked me.

PARKER: I do. But I'm starting to feel like you felt what? Some kind of commitment? Are you sure that's what you want right now?

BUFFY: I just thought...

PARKER: I'm sorry if you missed something. I thought things were pretty clear.

BUFFY: I'm sorry if I miss. I'm sorry.

PARKER: Look, I really have to go now.

(He walks off leaving Buffy looking dejected.)

BUFFY: Parker wait. I did this all wrong.

Then she turns around and says she’s sorry?!?

PARKER: No, it's cool. We'll hook up later.

This is something that really irritates me in relationships. If a guy treats you like shit you think it’s your fault.

WTF is up with that!!!!?!!!

I would say more and possibly something profound but my cat is sleeping on my lap so my leg is asleep and if I don’t move her my leg will fall off O.o

"think Spike screamed because Mr. Marsters had to do something to "sell" the point that Buffy took the ring." Without that scream I never would have known that Buffy had even took the ring. ...And because the director told him to? LOL :)"

Quote Option not working for anyone else?

The idea of being in shade as a protection against the sun always felt wrong to me - like a lazy plot device to get vamps out in the sunlight - just like having a sewer cover conveniently right next to their battle location. Dumbing Spike down to showing Buffy his new source of ultimate power - how lame is that? This is like putting him in the same category as ditzy Harmony. This is suppose to be the same vampire that did all the research and put all the information together that enabled him to find the lost treasure - makes little sense.

What we do see in this scene is that passion that will eventually erupt between these two characters - Spike is seriously kicking her butt until she goes into rage mode from her lingering heartache and trauma from Angel/Angelus. Their fight is a wonderful exposition on her history with Angel/Angelus, her deep need and desire for connecting with Mr. Normal, and her tragic future with Spike. With Spike, they both get entangled with all her past Boy Friends crap - Spike actually suffers most from all her "love" history in season six. If he thinks he has suffered some "serious kicking of his ass" before, season six will teaches him what serious Buffy anger and hatred really means.

Spike and Parker are, IMO, telling the tale of Buffy-Riley Future:

 

BUFFY: It's just, different, you know? A picnic. First of all, daylight - kind of a new venue, Buffywise. And the best part - he said he would bring all the food, so all I have to do was to show up and eat. Those are two things I'm really good at.

WILLOW: So he's nice?

BUFFY: Very, very.

WILLOW: And there's sparkage?

BUFFY: Yeah. He's- have you seen his arms? Those are good arms to have. I really like him. I do.

WILLOW: But..?

BUFFY: I don't know. I really like being around him, you know? And I think he cares about me.. but.. I just.. feel like something's missing.

WILLOW: He's not making you miserable?

BUFFY: Exactly. Riley seems so solid. Like he wouldn't cause me heartache.

WILLOW: (Fake worry) Get out. Get out while there's still time.

BUFFY: I know.. I have to get away from that bad boy thing. There's no good there. Seeing Angel in LA.. even for five minutes.. hello to the pain.

WILLOW: The pain is not a friend.

BUFFY: But I can't help thinking - isn't that where the fire comes from? Can a nice, safe relationship be that intense? I know it's nuts, but.. part of me believes that real love and passion have to go hand in hand with pain and fighting.

(Suddenly a vampire jumps out from behind a bush. Buffy stakes him without so much as looking the other way. He crumbles to dust and she and Willow continue on their way)

BUFFY: I wonder where I get that from.

While we skipped "Living Conditions" I watched it last night and realized that this is the first time that Veruca is introduced - I never really noticed this before.

What are your ideas about how desperate Buffy is about this getting of a boy friend just as she enters collage? Why the utterly insecure character treatment? At the end of the season opening we find Buffy back in the more confident Slayer Mode and saying she can deal with her new challenges as college coed - then we have her thrown back into "pathetic insecure" young woman. Watching "HLOD" again, I was struck with how much her after sex night scene reminded me of the same mode from "AYW - pathetic Buffy chasing her emotional delusion of Riley as her perfect Mr. Joe Normal.

Considering her rage with Spike's taunts about Angel/Angeles sexual experience - the psychological implications from that rage, IMO, are significant. Coupled with the ending and her immediate decision to send this extremely powerful magical ultra protection off to Angel knowing the potential disaster from the parameters of his soul curse - just how ready was Buffy to really make a move with her life? Were the writers serious with the Buffy-Riley Love or do you think that this arc was more as an exploration of the emotional status of Buffy trying to deal with her past and Angel/Angelus? Yes, we have all that I Am So In Love With You Riley, but there are always the bottom layer conflicts there as well.

Why did the writers throw Buffy so far back into "pathetic needy girl" with this quest for a boy friend - was it a set-up for Riley to be the great good boy friend?

Willow and Buffy are still treated as really silly young girls - they don't even seem like collage age young women to me - they seemed more like they were still in their mid teens from their high school era, especially Willow, all excited about cute guys.

I do love the ending scene of "HLOD" - all those women: demon trying to find her human life, human girl turned demon trying to find love, and the human girl so lost and trying to find her own self worth. Plus the added nice touch of Willow being all solid and stable with OZ and all her world ready to come crashing down on her.

like all creative people Joss Whedon and the writers responded to the opportunities that Spike and James Marsters' great interpretation brought to the series. It would have been foolish not to use such a great character and excellent actor. And James Marsters had a big "hand of fate" luck for him in that Juliet Landau was not available when they wanted another Spike and Dru round - so it was decided to bring Spike back only - and so it goes. Spike was brought back as solo and James Marsters just took off with the character, as did the writers. Had Juliet Landau been available, it would have had another limited villain arc instead of having Spike becoming a regular cast member.

I personally think that Spike was seen as a potential counterpart to Buffy from this season on and as the replacement for Riley. Not suggesting that the major arc for Buffy-Spike was already set, but the writers and Joss Whedon saw the powerful potential that a Buffy-Spike partnership offered.

I had a chance to watch HLoD again, and Spike has an interesting line about Buffy having sex with Parker and not knowing him very long. It made me think of William/Spike and human trait hidden underneath all that evil Big Bad. I had actually forgotten how many episodes were devoted to the Buffy-Parker arc and set-up for Buffy-Riley. The writers put a lot of effort and screen time to establish Buffy's insecurities and deep emotional need  for a male counterpart.  The next two episodes continue the Buffy emotional needs arc. In "Fearless" we have all the stuff that will come out with Willow and her start of magical control. There is the neat little reference for OZ about hippos wearing skirts that foreshadows the non-traditional couple of OZ & Veruca plus Willow & Tara and his speech to Willow about playing around with the dark side. With Buffy, in "Fearless" we have the scene with honest mother-daughter talk about trying running away from love as a protective device.
With "Beer Bad" it opens Buffy in the pathetic girl mode having fantasies about Parker, but in the interesting context of "saving a life" and the Professor Walsh lecture.

The writers have established a lot psychological and emotional needs in these episodes just before the Buffy-Riley arc -

 

I thought even then it was approved he was coming on as a Regular?  Because then I am thinking they did have something planned for him...Then again I don't think we will ever really know because I swear most everything I read about what happened during the course of the show keeps changing...hmmm.  I loved this episode...and any good screenwriter will have something at least penciled out as a possiblity for future episodes.  Now whether they use them or not...is another story.

I remember watching the special features for season 4 on Spike and they made it clear that they had no idea what they were doing with him. They said they decided to make him a regular for his dark sarcastic humour and laid back attitude.

They said since Cordy left, they needed someone who could break the ice between the scoobies every now and then and not to mention he had gained a legion of fans and upped the popularity of the show (mostly drooling girls lol)

Aside from the pseudo-cheating he did with the vampire girls - I think that’s a metaphor for real cheating :)

I completely forgot about his being her TA at the university until Always_jbj brought it up. That fact made it unethical for him to pursue her in the first place. – Wait a minute! You mean I wasn’t supposed to date those hunky grad students?

I still maintain that Parker looks like the rat/crack head version of Xander, and creeped me the hell out. – He wasn’t the only one – check out Ford, Jesse, Scott Hope – they’re all sort of Xander look alikes. Very icky.

I guess I'm one of the few who actually liked Riley, and at least he wasn't as bad as Parker.  – If you look at the scenes where Riley is acting with other men – Riley with Forrest and/or his squad; Riley fighting Angel (one of my favorites), even the Riley and Adam scenes, he comes off much better. The Riley/Buffy scenes are barfy.

Willow has never had another female friend. – True and very weird. Weren’t there any other misfit girls at high school? Hard to believe. Maybe there weren’t any other really geeky misfit girls.

sometimes watching episodes we dislike and rarely watch lead us to discover new things. – Very true. I don’t really like Killed by Death, but there are some excellent scenes with Xander and Cordelia and a particularly good scene where Xander fronts EvilAngel. 

Because Star of David doesn't work on vampires, only a cross does. I also remember Willow saying that she hides her cross so her dad won't see it in high school years. – Huh – it’s never been tried. Willow tacks a cross under her curtains to keep Angel out after he goes bad. 

I don't remember Willow pushing Buffy to have sex with Angel though. High School Willow? – Willow is constantly bringing up the subject of Angel. Then there’s this:

Buffy: But... to *not* act on want... What if I never feel this way again?
Willow: Carpe diem. You told me that once.
Buffy: 'Fish of the day'?
Willow: Not carp. (smiles) Carpe. It means 'seize the day.'
Buffy: Right. I... I think we're going to. Seize it. Once you get to a certain point, then seizing is sort of inevitable.
Willow: (wide-eyed) Wow...

Well they both kiss each other, caught in passion. – In the first(?) scene in Hush after Buffy wakes up from her little naughty dream, they walk outside and Buffy is waiting for him to kiss her. Instead he runs off and she says “Fortune favors the brave” and looks disappointed. 

They don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter! That’s the best part. :)

What do u mean he already had the S7 finale planed out? I don’t understand what your saying here – Joss had the outline of the whole show right down to the part where Spike goes up in flames and closes the Hellmouth – at least in that beady little brain of his.  More likely they worked backward as GoldenU said.

If there was an insinuation there, I didn’t catch it – why would Spike care what Buffy did with Parker? Yeah, there’s the whole get Buffy off balance thing, but I think it’s a little more than that. Fan wank alert. 

 
WILLOW: So he's nice? BUFFY: Very, very. – Boy that’s the kiss of death. Angel sucked the air out of the room but Riley is “nice.” 

Yes, we have all that I Am So In Love With You Riley, but there are always the bottom layer conflicts there as well. – Except Buffy never tells Riley that she loves him. (She tells Angel that she loves Riley with all her heart, but maybe she’s just giving Angel a hard time.) 

He's a friend -  LOL - Spike comes into the party with Harmony dragging a dead body (why?) and Buffy describes Spike to Parker as her friend. 

David Boreanaz was 28 when he started Buffy, and SMG was 20 when her character of Buffy turned 17. James Marsters turned 35 a month before his first appearance in School Hard (if you can believe that! He's so hot and young-looking, and definitely looks younger than DB! )

If SMG was twenty, she was only three years older than the high school girl they were trying to get her to act. I think they really overdid it by trying to make it obvious that Buffy was a teenager, having her be immature and whiny and dramatic and just like a spoiled teen girl and wearing ridiculously short skirts and bobble rings. She was the Slayer, which meant risking her life because she had to (whine), and making the tough decisions. But when she wasn't in the midst of a charged battle, even while discussing important, life-threatening danger, she was so immature! In contrast, Angel was way too experienced and almost jaded and old for her, and his personality wasn't young at all, sucking the chance of fun away from his teenage counterpart. Were we supposed to think it was grown-up feelings because Buffy was miserable instead of a light, fun crush with a boy her own age?

Joss's argument about Buffy not being in the same category of girls her age is lousy. Much of the point was that Buffy was just like girls her age, despite being special as the Slayer. The only way that argument made any sense is if Joss was talking about how Slayers don't live very long. If a teenager and an older man fell in love in real life, usually they'd understand that they needed to wait for her to at least become legal before moving forward in their relationship, and understand that they could grow apart. I guess the fact that Buffy could die doing her duty at any time makes waiting to express the love she is so sure of in the moment, waiting and maybe missing having that happiness while she's alive, makes sense. Sorta. Maybe.

But the Buffy/Angel age thing referring to maturity and experience and how they thought about feelings-- shouldn't have been a couple!!

A little OT, but I've heard a lot of people argue about Spike's age as a human in fanon. Of course, Buffy's age is made clear in canon, but it's three or four years younger than the actress SMG. I think I prefer making Spike's age closer to Buffy's because of his personality and immaturity and even thoughts about love.

Maybe they meant that he was a vampire for 126 years? - It isn't clear what the 126 refers to but the numbers don't work out that way either; 1880 to 1999 is 119 years.  It wouldn't be 126 years from his death until 2006.  It just doesn't work out.  The writers weren't paying attention.

Spike : I'm only 126.
Willow : You're being too hard on yourself.

I've heard people say that Spike deserves the treatment he gets from Buffy in season six because of how he treats Harmony here. First, I'd like to say that someone who hurts another person doesn't deserve emotional and physical pain, in my opinion. But does it make a difference that Harmony is a vampire and that Buffy is still human, though a Slayer, and should think about human emotional values or morals or whatev? I always thought Harmony was shallow and whiny and that made me think her feelings weren't very deep or real, especially as a vapid vampire, so I didn't think it was the same as season six Spike's emotional pain when he LOVED Buffy and she beat him up outside a police station and left him to die with utter carelessness.

I always felt this Spike didn't fit. In season two, he was 'bad' but what made him interesting was his care for Drusilla and his understanding of very human emotions like tenderness and love. I felt they cheapened his character by turning him into the stereotypical bastard to his girlfriend here, and they were trying to make him more like Angelus treated Buffy. It was lousy. I could only think that they ignored what they'd made his character beforehand so that they could have on last hurrah for him as really evil before they turned him gray, so they did everything evil they could think of. They made him abusive and cruel to his girlfriend, harsh on the minions with no friends, seeking power in the form of the Gem of Amara, and his first act with power had nothing to do with him enjoying the sun or doing something fun, but in killing a girl he hates, and whom he sneers at and mocks and beats on. The only reason I even recognize Spike as the character I liked before was that clip in the frat party and just outside.

Like your description -

XANDER: What are you doing out here? I hope you're not going to start your little obsession now that she's around again.

He jumps all over Spike who is doing nothing but leaning against a tree and crying.  These are not the words of a guy who is willing to let Buffy date Spike.  In fact, they could be the words of a guy who is (a) having doubts about his girlfriend and getting married and (b) still carrying a torch.  I think Buffy was right to believe that her friends would not welcome her having a relationship with Spike and I definitely agree that Buffy should have told them to shove it and done what she wanted. 

Willow - she always did go easier on Spike than anyone, but even she makes a face when she's talking to Tara about Buffy and Spike being together. 



 

I am a mum of 2girls 3boys and I have to tell you I would not want my girls to follow  Buffy"s way of liviing .She seems to be living everyone else's life !That is what joss seemed to be about .But in Australia that is what we try not to be about.As a convict union we try very hard not to be seen that way but our pollies are over the top.ask any aussie and they will tell you give them a chance!

Whether he's boring or not, he was treated as a serious boyfriend. They'd been a stable couple most of the relationship, she'd been happy with him, normal, she's laughing, she goes dancing with him, they go to the beach together, they do normal couple-y things fogether for a whole year. I can see why Xander, and the others, would prefer Riley over Angel or Spike.

don't know what happened to my post - sorry to have lost it to the computer eater monster - In "Halloween" we also have this theme of Buffy and her  longing for "normal" - her entire trip into chaos of her Janus Mask fiasco is started because she wanted to see what a normal experience with a human Angel would be.

I am going to start a Halloween Thread for those who want to join me in watching a Buffyverse Halloween episode - this is really a good episode and really important in the coming Angel/Angelus arc - it is a great foreshadow for the light/dark, male/female, and double side elements of all humans.  Ethan and his Janus Mask are a great use of metaphor and foreshadow for the coming horrors.

Scarlet Ibis -

Good Points on the "too much talking" -  but with that ring, he probably thought that he was invincible and could take some time to taunt her and so big damage to her ego.  Remember that one of the reasons that Spike comes looking for that ring is to get some of his own ego rebuilt after having.

SPIKE: Listen to me, you stupid bint. This gem is everything I came back to Sunnydale for, which has witnessed some truly spectacular kickings of my ass. Now, when I have the gem, they'll all die, don't worry.

SMG played that "morning after scene" so well -  those two made a great connection, both as the characters and as performers.