*Spike is so PRETTY! His full pink lips, his cheeks! Spike used to have cheeks! Pretty cheeks! Pinch cheeks!

*I love Riley. He's a gentleman, it's lovely how he discovers that he has a crush on Buffy. I really love his friendship with Forrest and Graham, especially with Forrest. The show really needs some guy-type-friendships. They're so amusing. I mean, Xander's friendship with Oz didn't reach that level of guy talk the way Oz had with Devon. Xander is clearly affected by the girls he hangs out with, that probably makes him boring to the other guys? Perhaps because Oz was with Willow, he couldn't freely express his views on girls... I dunno...

*Again to gentleman Riley, the way he punched Parker for his rude remarks, the way he was nice to Willow, Riley in general… I love him.

*I thought it was funny that Riley called Xander "the boy", other than Riley, Spike tends to call Xander by that.

*Spike and Harmony, lots of funny-ness, but I do dislike the way he treats her, even though many people hate Harmony and love Spike, so it doesn't really matter to them, I still see Spike's relationship with Harmony as one of his lowest moments, not because he's dating her but because of the way he's treating her. He doesn't like her, can't stand her, but uses her body for selfish desires.

*Hee at Buffy and Riley's conversation, both trying to get the other to leave in order to protect him/her. Very sweet.

*Love all the Riley/Willow stuff.

* Poor Giles and Xander, who feel so useless and bored, I think they loved that Buffy threw her slayer duties on them.

* Xander : Well, how about this? We whip out the ouija board, light a few candles, summon some ancient, unstoppable evil. Mayhem, mayhem, mayhem. We show up and kick its ass. Can this be used as a somewhat foreshadow to OMWF?

* Buffy and Xander concerned for poor Willow, where are those who said that Buffy and Xander didn't show any concern?

* Willow was also being a good friend to Buffy here, looking after her, hoping Riley won't hurt her friend the way Oz did to her.

* Xander : I'm sure he'd pick another night if he knew you were busy with teutonic boy toy.

Buffy: What is that supposed to mean?

Xander : Nothing.

Ooooh, Xander doesn't likey Riley.

* Xander is losing his military knowledge so he can get as useless as possible for his repetitive storyline. (I'm so useless. No, wait, I'm not. Short lived yay. I'm useless again.) 

* For the Spillow fans, that Willow/Spike scene has so many hints to Spillow. Spike was thinking of either killing Willow or siring her. Then the complements between the two. I can see a Spillow during S4 before Willow met Tara.

Spike : I'll give you a choice. Now I'm gonna kill you. No choice in that. But... I can let you stay dead... Or... Bring you back, to be like me.

*

Spike : Don't be ridiculous. I'd bite you in a heartbeat.

Willow : Really?

Spike : Thought about it.

Willow : When?

Spike : Remember last year, you had on that... Fuzzy pink number with the lilac underneath?

Willow : I never would have guessed. You played the blood-lust kinda cool.

Spike : Mmm. I hate being obvious. All fang-y and "rrrr!" Takes the mystery out.

Willow : But if you could...

Spike : If I could, yeah.

Willow : You know, this doesn't make you any less terrifying.

Spike : Don't patronize me.

Awww! I don't get the fics that write Willow as an anti-Spike. Of all the Scoobies, Willow was clearly the most open-minded, no one can deny that.

* Willow : It's always like, "ooh, you're like a sister to me," (that's Xander) or, "oh, you're such a good friend." (That's probably Xander... or maybe Jesse.)

Spillow isn't really my thing, but there have been a few moments where I can see them together, this being one of them.  I even wrote a oneshot from that scene, which had them doing much more than talking.  But back to the episode, yes, Willow may have been more for Spike than the others, but I don't think she ever really liked him.  Sure, he did try to kill her here, but he also made her feel better about herself, and what does she do?  She bashes his head in, even when she knows he can't hurt her.  I didn't much care for that.  

I do like Riley, especially when he punched Parker out, that was awesome, but if things were different, I could actually see him hooking up with Willow instead of Buffy.  In my opinion, they had more chemistry.

Oh, one more thing, pretty is not the word I would use for Spike in this episode.  I think this was the worst he's ever looked.  He was way too pale, and pasty like, probably from the lack of blood, definitely not the best.

Guess Willow forgot this time  - another time that Spike is not in top Big Bad form and having trouble -


SPIKE: Mmm. That smell... Your neck...I haven't had a woman in weeks.

WILLOW: Whoa! No! Hold it!

SPIKE: Well, unless you count that shopkeeper.

WILLOW: Now, now, hold on! I-I'll do your spell for you, and, and, and I'll get you Drusilla back, but, but there will be no bottle-in-face, and there will be no 'having' of any kind with me. Alright?



Willow and Riley did have potential "couple" chemistry - they were really nice together - I personally never was able to connect with Riley-Buffy as a romantic couple.  What do you call Buffy-Riley, would that be Bufley?

I think they call it Biley, but yeah, I agree.  That's another scene where I saw the potential for Spillow, even though he did threaten to smash a bottle in her face, I don't think he would have actually done it.

Sure, he did try to kill her here, but he also made her feel better about herself, and what does she do?  She bashes his head in, even when she knows he can't hurt her.

I can't fault her for that. The guy came in to kill her, she obviously wasn't sure how much his disablity would last. I'd smash his head as well if I were in her shoes - a few kind words won't erase the fact that this vampire came to kill me, and will do it if he can.

What disturbs me is how some view this scene as an attempted rape -some people will go through lengths to point out how Spike is dangerous when they don't have to, he came to kill her, which is bad enough, why twist the scene to make it uglier? I don't get character-hate.

Why make the assumption that Spike is talking about having a women sexually - the context of the episode is his love and loss of Drusilla.  

This, I think is one of those goofy illogics of the series.  If Spike is talking about having sex with a woman - he could have taken advantage of many women, but it could also mean that his is talking about Dru and no longer being sexually active with the love of his life.  If the reference is to drinking and feeding, again illogical, as he would have fed of any human available. 

These lines would indicate that Spike was talking about feeding.


SPIKE: Mmm. That smell... Your neck...I haven't had a woman in weeks.

WILLOW: Whoa! No! Hold it!

SPIKE: Well, unless you count that shopkeeper.

Vampiric biting, when the writers wanted it to be, was a metaphor for sex, yes.  But Spike was never talking about raping Willow.  He was either going to feed from her or turn her, which is exactly what he says before he turns up the music and throws her on the bed.  Was it going to be a violent ending for Willow either way had the chip not been in Spike's head?  Yes, cause she didn't want to die or be turned.  But that was those were the only things she feared from Spike.

Anyone suggesting something different wasn't watching the same show.

I just love how the scene from LW was used in this episode -

I don't know about rape, but I do think the writers purposely made the scene with Willow in the dorm room powerful and disturbing, and really got home to us that Spike was stronger, holding her down, and going to kill her. Willow was clearly very afraid. I think they were trying to reinforce that Spike was a dangerous vampire and murderer, because they know they're about to take all of that away from him and keep him as a character, and they can't have everyone claiming they changed his character even before the chip. Personally, as much as I loved both scenes with Willow for such great writing, though very different, I hated how they wrote Spike after he was in the bathtub. Honestly, just because the Scoobies don't think he's a threat anymore doesn't mean he has to be pathetic! Sometimes I just wish someone would write a fanfic where Spike miraculously stayed in character for season four! Shock, gasp! Imagine how that would change how everyone interacted and treated him and how he might have changed naturally, and of course, the issue of respect. Respect is a part of love, but it's also a part of all interesting relationships, even friends or enemies. They made Spike a bad joke, and he let them, and it's not like Spike at all.

You are absolutely right!  I'd never really thought about it before.  (After I sign off, I'm going to go think about your idea for a while because it is fascinating!)  I think the change came in the middle of this episode.  Spike did indeed seem dangerous when he attacked Willow.  I admit I laughed hard when they went into that conversation between Spike and Willow with all the double entendres about how he couldn't bite anymore, but now that you point it out, in some ways that was the turning point where the writers suddenly stopped writing the scary, strong, fascinating vampire and turned him into something of a pathetic joke.  Then he went on to go to Giles for help, got chained in the tub, and began acting like a whiny wimp.  I'd love to see an alternate universe of the show in which Joss did keep him strong and proud even after the chip and see how that changed everyone's reaction to him and his reaction to himself. 

That's why I love these forums--getting other people's insights helps me start thinking outside of the box, as the saying goes!

Spike biting Willow scene is very scary and there's more than a hint of a rape, I think, whne he's got her pinned down on the bed and he's on top of her.  It's sort of funny that they made that scene so scary because mostly Buffy isn't all that scary. 

We have to remember that the new strong male hero and romantic lead was going to be Riley - they could not have Spike, who was already so popular with the fan, become the strong male in opposition to Riley.  Plus the had just come off Angel/Angelus strong lead vampire.  Spike, was suppose to come on to replace the strong Cordelia character.  They may have played the comic relief Spike card too strong and way too early, but in important moments he was given an opportunity to show his potential for transformed good guy Spike. 

Their first encounter in "Lover's Walk" was much more disturbing to me than anything from "The Initiative" dorm scene.  Spike in LW comes across as truly dangerous to Willow, and I don't know if the intent was to emphasis "drunken Spike" as the out of control contrasted to controlled chip Spike - but the symbolism is there.  

I don't mind Spike being pathetic. I have a thing for losers, Spike, Giles and Xander are my favorite losers, they rank higher than Angel, Riley, Dark!Wesley, and Gunn in my heart simply because they're not the "buff, musceled, physically strong" type. Spike's chip makes him weak around humans, Xander and Giles' normality makes them weak around vampires and other forces of evil, it makes them more relatable.

I loved this character in all his phases - JM was so outstanding in the life he gave the character - even his  Evil Big Bad persona was compelling - the Spike from his early post chip stage has been cut down and made weak - but it has such a different effect on his character that we see after he has fallen in love with Buffy. 

Lots of interesting (and different) thoughts here.  Personally, I didn't see the scene with Willow as particularly scary. And, to whomever said he came there to kill her - uh, no, he came there looking for Buffy because he thought she was responsible for his being captured by the Initiative. Buffy wasn't there, Willow was, so he went after her. Remember her "you wanted Buffy - you're just settling for me" lines (I'm paraphrasing, Have neither the time nor energy to look up the actual transcript.) Then he assures her he's not settling, that he always was attracted to her, etc. etc. I thought the whole scene was both fun (for all the performance problem double entendres) and showing us (again) that there's more to Spike than sheer bloodlust. Never thought he was planning to rape Willow. Kill and maybe turn her, yes, but not rape. And they were each trying to make the other feel better about the things that were making them unhappy. I loved it. Sympathetic Willow (even though she admits the situation is still terrifying) and "make the girl feel better about herself" Spike.  James has said, when talking about the character, that he was whatever they needed him to be that season. Dangerous enemy, annoying semi-dangerous visitor, wacky neighbor, etc.  Season IV was playing mostly for the comedy effects, so his character was more funny than dangerous most of the time. The audience knows he's not going to kill Buffy (or any other main character, chances are) so it's easy to forget his past and just enjoy the funny parts.  Even in LW (which I agree showed him in a more dangerous light) had a lot of humor in it. And I would say Willow was much closer to being raped then than she was in this episode. And even then, he backs right off when she says "there will be no having". 
Had they written a different season IV in which Spike was still a dangerous and to be respected vampire, people would have had to die.  I don't think, without showing the wimpy, annoying Spike, it would have been very believable for him to have become part of the group in any way.  There are many ways that Spike could have maintained his status with other vamps and demons. He didn't need to go to the Scoobies for help.  And if he really thought Buffy had been responsible for his problem, he could have easily burned her house or the dorm down; had minions do it or any one of a dozen other things that would have kept him strong and evil.  But then, his fans wouldn't have been very happy...:)

Big Bad Evil Vamp Spike could not have become, IMO, a major character in the series in this persona - already he had become weakened as a foil and villain against Buffy, she has caused his big skedaddled several times, anymore of the same would be been totally unbelievable.  Using him in comedy transition helped to move him away from the dangerous and evil vampire that he was.  The transition scene with Willow I thought was very effective because it puts him right into a human situation that all the viewers could relate to, all those times when we are just not up to a task to bring off a victory and giving support to a friend when they need it. 

I never felt that Willow was in any real danger in this scene either, Spike is already in the position of being a weaker character with the first bravado scene of his capture, his swagger and evil vampire killer approach to Willow was, IMO, in the same treatment. 

And if he really thought Buffy had been responsible for his problem

Yeah, he figured out soon enough it wasn't her.  Cause then going to her Watcher's place for help would have made no sense whatsoever :)

I didn't find either scene with Willow scary--I knew nothing was going to happen to her.  She's a main core character--she wasn't going anywhere.  The scariest thing (and only real scary thing) in s4 was the Gentlemen's faces IMO.  I've never found Spike to be scary or really threatening.  Bad ass, sure, but not scary.

As for Spike being out of character...I slightly disagree.  The only thing I found out of character was that he didn't pursue a cure to his chip problem as much as I think he should have--he kind of just accepted it during most of the duration of s4 before he made that ill deal with Adam.  And even after that, he kind of just accepted it.  OTOH, learning he could still kick demon ass made him so happy that he got distracted for awhile.

I think Willow suddenly becoming gay was out of character (I would have bought it from Xander before her), that Buffy would ditch her friends for the "cool kids" at The Initiative was out of character, and Anya deciding to hook up with Xander (as opposed to oh say Giles) was off, considering her age.

Also, the "Riley punches out Parker" scene seemed forced to me.  Like they were trying extra hard to make we the audience like Riley.

He still bored me.  It made me kind of wrinkle my nose.  Sure, Parker more than had it coming...but I still didn't care.  Forrest was more interesting.  And Graham was probably the dullest of the dull.

And I agree with whoever who said that Riley and Willow would have made more sense.  In fact, that's where I thought they were going for about five seconds...

Good, I'm not the only one who thought that they were trying WAY too hard to make the viewers like Riley. It kinda backfired to me because it just kind of emphaized his boringness (also the opinion of all my friends who watched Buffy). I mad the msytery tean, their last male lead was a vampire with a curse, lots of angst and had the mystery thing going- even if you hated Angel, Riley was boring in comparsion to all that.

Scarlet Ibis -

good post - I have to agree with you about Willow turning gay - the played up all this strong love for Oz and then Tara comes along.  It would have made perfect sense for Willow to be bi - but strictly gay now, it does fit.  That Willow loved Tara is made than fine, I think that with Willow it was about the love for a person, not particularly the gender. 

I don't what made Riley so boring to me - he just was, I character seemed to have no screen presence or interest, least not for me.  Some viewers like him very much, to me he just seemed like a hokey treatment of Mr. Super Nice Guy.  I never once had any connection with the partnership between Buffy and Riley.  There relationship always seemed forced to me, like SMG was trying to hard to show how in love she was. 

I never understood what the purpose of turning a 1000 year old demon with all that experience into this young woman character that was incapable of functioning in a normal society.  If anything, a being that has lived that long would know how to blend into any social milieu.   Think that the missed a wonderful opportunity with Anya and having her as a potential pairing with Giles or at least as another adult figure, something that I think was missing from the series.  It seemed to me that whenever another adult/mature character came on, there was an added level of interest and perspective.

The Gentlemen and that demon that was skining Willow and eating her flesh was the other really scary demon character to me, that demon totally gave me the creeps - the other character that I found very scary and creepy was that crazy man talking to Dawn in front of The Magic Box.

Maggie Walsh was one of the really Big Bads of the series.

The only thing I found out of character was that he didn't pursue a cure to his chip problem as much as I think he should have

I found it weird as well, same as the Scoobies letting him wander around like that, but then they already let Anya walk away even though she was trying to be a demon again in S3. They do underustemate their enemies.

I think Willow suddenly becoming gay was out of character (I would have bought it from Xander before her),

I actually like how they did it. It's more original and still believable. I also love that they kept Xander straight, despite my love for Gay Xander, it shows that there are straight guys who don't mind following women, and Xander is obviously bottom, hee, which is another reason why I love the shit outta him. He's not a manly man, and he's okay with it.

that Buffy would ditch her friends for the "cool kids" at The Initiative was out of character

I don't think it's out of character. Buffy had already ditched her friends for Faith.

and Anya deciding to hook up with Xander (as opposed to oh say Giles) was off, considering her age.

Anya was trapped in a body of a teenage girl, having teenage girls' desires, Xander was the only guy without a date to the prom. Since Xander was the only guy she dated after centuries of hurting men, Anya got attached to him, clinging to him with her life. She came back for him, and he took her, he was the only Scooby who gave a damn about her. Buffy, Willow, and even Giles couldn't care less if she was around or not. I can understand why she'd rather be with Xander. Besides, the heart chooses what it chooses, doesn't matter if it's logical or not. :)

Think that the missed a wonderful opportunity with Anya and having her as a potential pairing with Giles or at least as another adult figure, something that I think was missing from the series.

Xander/Anya had a great potential as well. What with Anya hooking up with the guy who was the reason she lost her powers, the guy she was sent to hurt, Anya had mentioned to Spike that she was using Xander at first, we never saw that. I would've loved if she used him, knowing he's probably cheat on her like he did with Cordelia, therefore she'd be granted another chance to turn back into a demon by wishing an awful punishment on him and impressing D'haffryn. She gradually forgets her plan and falls in love with him, learning that not all men are bad.

Xander, who is uncomfortable with Anya's past, will live a struggle between his morals and his love for Anya. Finally able to see what it's like for Buffy when she loved Angel. I knew they dealt with that issue in Selfless, but they could've focused more on it before.

Alas, Xander/Anya was treated as comic relief.

You know, I wouldn't have minded if Giles had Anya as long as Xander gets Spike. Anya doesn't have Cordelia's snarky attitude, but Spike does. I love Xander in a snarky relationship *huggles Xander/Cordelia and Xander/Spike*

Even worse, and from my perspective more interesting and filled with potential for Anya's character would have been all their experience and intellect acquired over 1000 imprisoned in that high school age body.   To me, the premise that Anya somehow is separated from her 1000 life time, that her past life.  I've read discussions on another board that posit this same kind of separation for Angel-Angelus.   Your history is your life and unless the prime demon characters and vampires are automatons or their lives don't connect to their memories, this should also pertain to them as well. 

With Hallie and D'hoffryn or Drac, did you ever get the impression that their intellect and history is not directly connected to their current life?  Why would Anya, even in her changed body not be connected to her history as well?  I all fine with creating Anya as they did in the series, what I am not fine with is that a little more time was not given to the fundamentals of how she now has to exist.

I'm with you there. Anya could have been such a compelling character if she was treated more seriously, but I'm sure she wasn't a favorite character of any of the writing staff, which is why she was neglected -same can be said about Xander and Giles who had great potential that was wasted on using them as plot devices to make other characters' plotlines develop. 

Did Riley have any flaws in season 4? I wouldn't say they made him perfect, but the writers seemed to make him a "cardboard cutout" of the nice guy--polite, slight good humor, kind, strong, brave, loyal to the government without doubting or asking questions, able to handle the modern strong woman... He never really had depth to me, even when he started going to the vamp bitehouse in season 5. That just felt like a secret and a sign of his insecurities. They never brought up character flaws or mistakes or emphasis on something so much that it became bad--he's a great guy with some insecurities. Heck, they even talked Buffy into believing Riley wasn't wrong when he said it was her distance that made him insecure and go risk his life with vampires instead of showing that as a mixed up idea and rationalizing and their one chance of making the character interesting!

Season 4 missed a lot of important parts, to me. If Oz weren't Buffy's friend, would he have helped him? Riley never seemed to grow as a character, he just started following Buffy instead of following the Initiative, and the Initiative itself was largely ignored as the bad guy. The bad guy was Adam and he was treated like a 'mistake' of the Initiative instead of looking at what the Initiative wanted or what they were doing by experimenting on demons and everything that wasn't human. What Maggie Walsh had against Buffy was personal, so the secret underground operation of capturing and experimenting on sentient beings to biologically create an obedient and emotionless super-soldier was perfectly OK!!
Bleh.

I agree with you completely about the initative itself. And to me, Adam was never the 'mistake' but the whole point of it. You don't just wake up one morning and say 'hey I'd like to expirment on some demons for no reason'- which is bad. Expirmenting on sentient beings is not cool.
That's why I liked how, later in season five of Angel (the episode with Lawson- can't remember the name) the initative was brought up again and showed how sketchy it was. Any operation that dates back to the 40's and had an interest in nazi expirments? Not good. At all.

Well said ulu. 

The ep you're talking about is "Why We Fight."

I think it was remiss to have made Adam the Big Bad in s4, when they had the bounty that was Maggie Walsh and The Initiative.

Could not agree more that it was The Initiative and not Adam that was the real Big Bad - wish that the writers had address the theme of the Initiative more in depth -
Think that what the writers were trying to accomplish was use the Buffy need for a love to reconnect after Angel/Angelus - and Riley was the Mr. Normal that vehicle. 

Adam turning and killing his creator, IMO, was the real resolution of  The Initiative - His creators and the soldiers that are forced to, or willingly follow the, the forces of Power Elites of domination paid the price for their actions.   

Soldiers that must follow orders, they have no choice other than imprisonment and harsh consequences for any disobedience, but The Initiative presented many characters that were totally willing to be part of the game plan.  Use of beings as resource to create weapons for the purpose of control.   And while Riley did leave the Initiative willingly, he seemed to do it more because he wanted to be with Buffy and not from a deep aversion to what purpose and means of the group.  We see that when things start to fall apart with Buffy, he wants to return to the group that he identified with and that he felt have his life purpose.   And we see how much Riley really did want to be in The Initiative we he comes back to Sunnydale with Sam - 

Viewers make up their own minds about  how the imagine The Initiative, were the fighting the good fight to protect their own tribe against another tribe, or were they much more, were they an instrument metaphorically for the dynamics in our own real world control of power and resources.  

Hi everyone - sorry I haven't been posting my half-baked theories making everyone crazy lately.  Nanowrimo is eating up my time.  I watched The Initiative again today and I note some things.

We see a lot of connections between Spike and Riley, foreshadowing their rivalry as Buffy's love interests: 

Riley goes to Buffy's room and finds Willow (to ask Buffy on a date).  Spike goes to Buffy's room and finds Willow (to kill Buffy).  Both use Willow as a sounding board for their problems.  They both say they have to see a girl - referring to Buffy.  Interestingly, Spike knows all about Buffy and her secret life as the Slayer; Riley actually pushes her weapons under the bed and is oblivious.  That and the fact that Riley "can't dance" which is code for he can't handle things in the bedroom department, indicates to me that Joss intends all along for Spike to be The One.  (It's true apparently that James isn't much of a dancer himself.  He doesn't dance in OMWF and his dance with Drusilla is pretty limited, however, he equates fighting - dancing and having sex all together and we just know that Spike is sex on wheels.  That and the fact that the first thing he does when he escapes is to find Harmony for sex.) 

There's the interesting Riley/Willow conversation in which she basically calls him a liar and then, he agrees that his plan is to rip Buffy's heart out. 

Other tidbits:

• Spike escapes from the Initiative at 2:47 p.m., per Professor Walsh.  Where does he go in the middle of the day?
• I'm sure everyone noticed that Spike's chip doesn't actually work until he gets to Buffy's room.
• Love Spike looking up Buffy's room number on the school computer.  LOL.
• Spike returns to Harmony before he knows that the chip is going to prevent him from feeding. 
• Willow threatens to kill Riley with a shovel  (for those fans of the Traveling Shovel of Death at Nanowrimo). 
• Buffy, after calling Riley a doof, announces that she's going out - alone - and give Spike what he wants.  Hmmm.
• In the beginning of the episode, Buffy is being a klutz and Riley is not interested.  Riley doesn't like Buffy until Professor Walsh says she likes her and I construe that as Walsh giving Riley permission. 
• What happened to Buffy's wonderbra cause she could really use it in the party scene.

In the beginning of the episode, Buffy is being a klutz and Riley is not interested.  Riley doesn't like Buffy until Professor Walsh says she likes her and I construe that as Walsh giving Riley permission.

Wow--excellent point.  Haven't seen that ep in years, but...it puts things in perspective.

What happened to Buffy's wonderbra cause she could really use it in the party scene.

Ha!  :p

And yeah--Spike was totally able to shove the Initiative guys when he fled the room.  Guess they didn't turn on that nifty chip switch until they realized he'd escaped their clutches again.

Glad someone else noticed that Spike was able to "hurt" the men at the Initiative in order to make his escape despite having the chip implanted.  I have wondered about that since I first saw the episode, but I ended up just deciding it was one of the many holes in the writers' story writing and that I'd just have to ignore it.  Any other opinions on that?

Hey, Spikez_tart, what is Nanowrimo?

In my opinion, I think that Joss Whedon intended all along that Spike would be the real long arc story -  There were so many things that  pointed in that direction.  From the very start of the episode we have the changed dynamics of Spike vs Buffy.  Not only Spike, but Buffy and Giles (the counter part to the Walsh-Riley relationship) going along with the theme that Buffy should not kill Spike,

Where Spike and Buffy had such a awesome presence and chemistry together, Riley just never seemed able to stand along side Spike, without  coming off as so ordinary.   Even being a leader in the super military project, there is just about the character that I never got excited about. 

Writers and director was really not paying attention in the hall fighting scene - Spike was punching and kicking butt - who is it that takes the extinguisher off the wall and uses it for a weapon?  Can't  remember if it was Buffy or Spike.   Can of late now but I will watch the episode tomorrow along with Pangs for Thanksgiving Buffy treat. 

Joss in the Write Interview very clearly states that he always like the Spike character and that James Marsters was outstanding in the role - that he just kept bring more and more to his performances and the character. 

Chip explanation - Scarlet's makes some sense.  The Initiative didn't turn it on right away.  And, it is Spike who cracks someone with the fire extinguisher.  He also gets in a couple of licks at the soldiers without any bad effects, but Riley reports later that Spike is completely incapacitated.  Somewhat wishful thinking on his part.

Hall fight - interesting that Buffy and Spike are both fighting against the soldiers.

Willow - okay if Spike visited your dorm room and tried to bite you, but then couldn't, wouldn't you at least tell your roommate, Buffy?  Yes, you would, but apparently she doesn't.  More on this point when we talk about Pangs. 

Sensei - Nanowrimo can be found at http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/node   About 150,000 people get together in November, all over the world, and write a 50K novel in 30 days.  You're probably too late for this year (unless you write REALLY fast), but sign up to get a reminder email for next year.  They have parties, t-shirts, fun videos, forums, write ins and pretty much endless fun.  There's also a division for younger writers and artists kicked in this year designing book covers. 

Chris Batey started Nano a few years ago when he and 8 of his buddies got drunk and decided to write a novel in a month.  Proving once again that alcohol is the fuel for many great ideas.  Chris's manifesto has been published in "No Plot No Problem."  Contributions go to keeping up the website and funding libraries in Thailand or someplace like that.  Amazon has a contest for publishing a novel written during Nano (I see that they're giving a technical assist in running the site this year, too) and there are lots of special software deals, etc.  Nano is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on, IMHO.

I know that the intent was not there from writers regarding their future together - but I like to think of Riley and Buffy seeing each other through the fog as a metaphor for what their relationship - seeing what they each wanted,  what each was looking for in their lives.

Doesn't The hall fight happens after Spike has already tried to bite Willow?

Hall fight - Yes, Spike is in Buffy/Willow's room.  She bangs him on the head with a lamp (A LIGHT).  The soldiers id him with their spiffy temperature indicator, then cut the lights in the building.  Riley brings the dark and the smoke grenades (or whatever they are) and Buffy shoots off her flare gun which blinds the soldiers.  DEEP SYMBOL WARNING.  :)

I just loved this show so much - the art department was terrific at telling the story with the sets - like showing not Mr. Gordo, but that, what looks like some type of spaniel in the room with Willow - Spike's little trip to the vet -

It could be Buffy's stuffed cow which she is fondling in Pangs.

NaNo's been my life this month. :)

James dancing - he says he always forgets the choreography, LOL. And his expertise is moves that went with punk. :D I think for OMWF 1) the ep focuses on the girls for the most part, so they get the choreography time, and 2) Spike was probably supposed to be "too cool" to have traditional dance moves they gave to the others. They gave him a rock song, after all. (Only dance that might have made sense to add is a fight-dance with Buffy.)

Yeah, either Spike escaped before the chip was activated, or his brain hadn't fused enough with it, yet, for it to work. Nice music with his escape, BTW.

Nice music with his escape, BTW.

The music was very much in the vein of Indiana Jones (the hero), making a daring escape.  I liked it :)

he says he always forgets the choreography, LOL -  He's so full of it!  He apparently didn't have any trouble remembering the "choreography" in his train fight with Nicki Wood in FFL or his big fight with Buffy.  He just doesn't like to dance.  :)

Wait, the choreography for what now?

For the fights - the fight scenes are completely planned out just like a dance.  Look at the scene with Nikki how he's swinging on the poles, and twirling the metal pole and moving around.  He can do all that stuff, but he can't remember a few dance steps?  I don't believe it.  Possibly he thinks he'll look dorky while he's dancing. 

No, I know.  But what dance scene?

And yeah, he does look dorky when he dances :P

And yeah, he does look dorky when he dances :P

Aww!  (*is writing a Spander fic with boys dorky dancing!*) I bet everybody writes Spike as a skilled dancer. My Spike is dorky :)

Sorry Scarlet, I misunderstood - In Crush, Drusilla and Spike go to the Bronze to look for victims.  Spike grabs a glass of champaign and then they sort of twirl around which is supposed to pass for dancing before they spot their victims up on the balcony.

just a neat coincidence, or not, but the stuffed animals in their dorm are the brown long eared puppy and the black and white cow or bull that Buffy handles -