The thread was getting way long so I started another.

I finally got my copy and I was pleasantly surprised - 1 because Buffy wasn't talking to Angel and 2 because Spike and Buffy were being kind to each other for a change and 3 Kennedy got dumped.  The scene with Buffy and Dawn was pretty nice, too.

The business with Giles not leaving Buffy anything in his will is interesting although where did he get all that money?  Was he dipping into the Council bank accounts or did they really pay him that much for all those years?  Really wondering about that Vampyr book that Giles tried to give to her in the very first episode.

I don't get how you can get rid of all the magic in the world and apparently Willow is the only one affected?  Not to mention the immaturity she displays.  How can you have any slayers or vampires if there's no magic? 

And where does Faith get off busting Buffy's chops for making slayers to save the world? 

I still hate the Bugmobile.  That just sucks.

The Giles burial scene was disappointing.  I was reading one of the other omnibuses where Giles goes back to London to a funeral for a friend and they did a nice one page spread for a minor character.  Surely Giles deserved a little better sendoff. 

I have always been very disappointed with the fundamental premise of S8, that the empowerment of the Potential from "Chosen" sucked big time - that making women powerful turned everything topsy-turvey  and that the was a huge price to pay from having all these powerful women as a force in the world.  OK, Simone, yes, that is very realistic - there would of course be some Slayers that would go Dark Rogue  - but turning the Scythe Empowerment in the "Big Bad" - that just seems like such a bunch of crap.  I forget which character said, think it was Xander, that the "One Girl In All The World" was all kinds of dumb - and it is totally dumb.  If there had at least been some attempt to explain where this fundamental premise was coming from, why it was  so important or so wrong to have used the Scythe this way,  there would not be the negative response from some readers.   What, the universe and forces for balance are fine with the millions killed by male leaders and their armies, but a female Slayer army sends the universal forces into total chaos?  And excuse me, but wasn't it Giles, when Buffy asked, that said her plan was "brilliant." 

The Giles Will theme was completely unexpected - if the format from the series is followed with how Joss Whedon set up the coming season in the first season episodes and finales, this will be significant in Season 9.

I also liked the Buffy-Spike - again, lot of readers had very negative response, but I did not see it this way.   I like that Spike is still in her corner and all his role since he came onto the scene - everything he has done thus far is to support her and bring her information and take on the role of a potential great partnership as equals - finally get away from all the "corruption of love"  that has been Buffy's most detrimental character flaw.  I just hope that Joss Whedon and Dark Horse realize that this part of Buffy and her story has simply got to change.  After all the events of S8, the character cannot, IMO, take anymore of Love Gone Wrong - it's become boring.  I am so ready to see Spike become a really important part of the emotional healing of Buffy. 

I like Spike and the Alien Insects - it gives the opportunity for adventures for and relief from the major arcs without any distractions or this mini-series for Spike which was talked of  at one time.  I would love to see an adventure with only Xander, Dawn, Buffy and Spike -  if I could write, I would be a story with Spike taking Xander and Dawn on a honey moon vacation to another planet. 

The fundamental change for the Buffyverse with Witches getting their powers from other dimensions, IMO, is ridiculous - I know that the creators can set-up any parameters they want for their works, but, IMO, it makes no sense to have beings that have always lived on Earth and are beings of this world - somehow get their powers from a completely different source.  How do you factor in the history of Amy and Tara inheriting their powers through their mothers?  Did the Origins Force that created this planet bring witches onto the planet?   This new Witch Power feels very much like another plot device similar to Angelus' Gypsy curse, it works as an easy way to move the story along, but eventually will become a problem.  A world without magic is like a world without dreams.

Actually I thought the one girl chosen made a certain amount of sense.  I saw a calculation somewhere of how many vampires Buffy could reasonably take out vs how ten (or whatever number) vampires could wipe out a town in a certain number of years (assuming anyone would stick around to get wiped out).  Buffy could keep up with killing about 700 vampires, and that would be enough to keep things on an even keel.  Besides, as we saw from having a whole horde of vampire killers - bor.ing.

I'd like to see Spike and Buffy have a relationship on a different basis, too, but knowing Joss - it's going to hurt - a lot.

So, forgive me if I'm wrong, since I refuse to spend money on these comics and thus haven't read the last one, but didn't Warren fall apart in the last one, since he was a magic construct? If that's the case, shouldn't Angel's soul have disappeared as well, given that it's a magical construct as well?

But then again, why am I expecting any sort of sense to come out of these things?

Season 8 has established that magic that was already in place before The Seed was destroyed, remnants and vestiges of that magic would remain - there would be no new magic and that is why Warren dissolved - he was being kept together and alive by Amy's magic all this time.  What the plan is for Angel/Angelus - I suspect that he also would remain the same, since that was magic ritual that had already taken place,  That is why Slayers and Vampires remain in place, but no new Slayers will be created.  The obvious plot hole about Vampires is that, as I understood from the series, vampires were created not by magic, but my a demon biting a human and creating a hybrid.  Some correct me if I am wrong.  I don't really understand what exactly a vampire is - if demons were they original and natural indigenous life form with humans coming later and the vampire is created by the combination of both - what are they magical life forms? 

About the imbalance with the new Slayers, it was wrong to change all those young women without their permission, and especially since Buffy made it clear for a long time that she did not especially like being a slayer - that she wanted things in her life that would not be part of the slayer life style.  But that was not the message that resonated in "Chosen" it was the metaphor of women being stronger and taking control of their own lives.  Why the decision was made to take away so much from the message of personal strength, who knows.  Joss Whedon apparently thinks that his story needed this dark and negative turn on the "are you ready to be strong" from the series finale.  I guess Super Strong Women is something the world is not ready for - I personally don't see where this imbalance with advantage to Slayers works.  There are a great many more demons than Slayers.  I could see where the balance consequences would lead to a  war between Slayers and Demons.  According to a comment from Scott Allie, again I hope I am remembering it correctly, the idea of Slayers getting all that  just as a free gift was one of the themes that they wanted to explore in Buffy Season 8.

one or two vampire masters who begin turning at a much faster rate and take down inexperienced , woefully untrained Slayers and either turn them or use thier powerful blood to make them stronger.  Which is a much better story than the one we got!

I'm sick of Angel and his damn brooding and his back and forth between good and bad.  Jeesh move on.  Really if Joss was looking for someone to kill, Angel and Giles could have battled it out to the death.  Something for everyone that way.

magic that was already in place before The Seed was destroyed, remnants and vestiges of that magic would remain  - which would mean that Willow should still have her magic?  The whole theory makes no sense.  Sigh. 

I hate to say this, but Season 8 has actually made me perfectly OK with the death of Angel/Angelus - the character needs some serious changes or death - I'm with you sick of Angel and his back and forth between good and bad.  I have felt for a long time that Angel will never find peace until he makes a final death sacrifice for a great cause.  His finest moment, for me is still when he offered up his life in exchange for Darla's. 

Don't know how I feel about Buffy Season 8 winning the SFX "Best Graphic or Comic Book Series" this year.

Don't know how I feel about Buffy Season 8 winning the SFX "Best Graphic or Comic Book Series" this year.

Did season 8 actually win? I can't imagine that happening. The only possible reason that could happen is if the people making the decision are sucking up to Joss Whedon. Because the other offerings couldn't all suck worse than BS8

ladycat713, I think the SFX awards are voted on by the readers, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if many of them had never read the comic and voted for it based on Buffy's former glory. I wasn't too impressed with it's competition though. 

I agree with you nmcil about Angel. I don't want to read about all the brooding and atonement and redemption again. It's old. It's boring. It's barrel scraping. I can't even read IDW's Angel anymore because I know they're moving him to become Twilight. But I'm also not interested in another Buffy/Angel angst fest either. If Season 9 is about  'will Buffy forgive Angel', 'will they find their way back to each other', 'soulmates', 'twu luv 4eva', well, that's old and boring too. I know I've read forums where a lot of Bangel's think that's what S9 is going to do but It also seems a lot of people are more interested in following Willow next season than anyone else.

When a series like Buffy that relies on metaphors, similies, and visual cues, has Spike with a crew of bugs that call him "sire", and has him chase after the so-called "Vagina Demon", it's like a subliminal message. It makes it look like he's the King of Cockroaches chasing pussy. That's why I don't like the spaceship and crew, and why I objected to Spike chasing that specific demon at the end of the fight. And Spike looked so cool driving around in a sports car with Illyria. 

I expect a lot of problems in S9 with writers being able to pick and choose what magic stayed and what magic is gone. Continuity is going to be worse than ever and there could be a lot of problems with things just not making sense. An editor will really have to stay on top of the comic to keep things on an even keel and I don't think Scott Allie is up to that. He didn't even notice when Jeanty made up a new character. Jeanty took the blame for that, but really the editor should have caught it.

Oh well, the entire season has inspired me to do a whole series of artwork on women so at least something good came out of it for me.

  

'will Buffy forgive Angel', 'will they find their way back to each other', 'soulmates', 'twu luv 4eva', well, that's old and boring too. - I'm way sick of this plot line, too.  And, shouldn't having your boyfriend KILL your "father" pretty much put paid to that relationship?  Permanently? 

'will Buffy forgive Angel', 'will they find their way back to each other', 'soulmates', 'twu luv 4eva', well, that's old and boring too. - I'm way sick of this plot line, too.  And, shouldn't having your boyfriend KILL your "father" pretty much put paid to that relationship?  Permanently? 

You'd think that wouldn't you? Of course you'd also think your boyfriend cheating on you, killing your "father's" girlfriend and trying to end the world would do it too. Not to mention then never apologizing and leaving you and only coming back into your life to make sure you haven't moved on.

The whole Bangel thing was always at best insipid . It rapidly degenerated into idiotic and insane. I've always wanted someone to compare Buffy and Drusilla to her face and to have Buffy come back with I'm not crazy. The response to that of course is She (Dru) has an excuse, You don't!

your boyfriend cheating on you, killing your "father's" girlfriend and trying to end the world would do it too. - Hey that was an accident.  Besides, Buffy sent him to hell for a couple hundred years to think things over.  :)

your boyfriend cheating on you, killing your "father's" girlfriend and trying to end the world would do it too. - Hey that was an accident.  Besides, Buffy sent him to hell for a couple hundred years to think things over.  :)

Obviously the lesson didn't stick. Besides she didn't send him to hell to punish him , she had to because that was the only thing that would close the portal. Accidental punishments don't count.

ladycat713, I think the SFX awards are voted on by the readers, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if many of them had never read the comic and voted for it based on Buffy's former glory. I wasn't too impressed with it's competition though. 

I agree with you nmcil about Angel. I don't want to read about all the brooding and atonement and redemption again. It's old. It's boring. It's barrel scraping. I can't even read IDW's Angel anymore because I know they're moving him to become Twilight. But I'm also not interested in another Buffy/Angel angst fest either. If Season 9 is about  'will Buffy forgive Angel', 'will they find their way back to each other', 'soulmates', 'twu luv 4eva', well, that's old and boring too. I know I've read forums where a lot of Bangel's think that's what S9 is going to do but It also seems a lot of people are more interested in following Willow next season than anyone else.

When a series like Buffy that relies on metaphors, similies, and visual cues, has Spike with a crew of bugs that call him "sire", and has him chase after the so-called "Vagina Demon", it's like a subliminal message. It makes it look like he's the King of Cockroaches chasing pussy. That's why I don't like the spaceship and crew, and why I objected to Spike chasing that specific demon at the end of the fight. And Spike looked so cool driving around in a sports car with Illyria. 

I expect a lot of problems in S9 with writers being able to pick and choose what magic stayed and what magic is gone. Continuity is going to be worse than ever and there could be a lot of problems with things just not making sense. An editor will really have to stay on top of the comic to keep things on an even keel and I don't think Scott Allie is up to that. He didn't even notice when Jeanty made up a new character. Jeanty took the blame for that, but really the editor should have caught it.

Oh well, the entire season has inspired me to do a whole series of artwork on women so at least something good came out of it for me.

  

I would love to see the work - anywhere online? 

ladycat713, I think the SFX awards are voted on by the readers, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if many of them had never read the comic and voted for it based on Buffy's former glory. I wasn't too impressed with it's competition though. 

I agree with you nmcil about Angel. I don't want to read about all the brooding and atonement and redemption again. It's old. It's boring. It's barrel scraping. I can't even read IDW's Angel anymore because I know they're moving him to become Twilight. But I'm also not interested in another Buffy/Angel angst fest either. If Season 9 is about  'will Buffy forgive Angel', 'will they find their way back to each other', 'soulmates', 'twu luv 4eva', well, that's old and boring too. I know I've read forums where a lot of Bangel's think that's what S9 is going to do but It also seems a lot of people are more interested in following Willow next season than anyone else.

When a series like Buffy that relies on metaphors, similies, and visual cues, has Spike with a crew of bugs that call him "sire", and has him chase after the so-called "Vagina Demon", it's like a subliminal message. It makes it look like he's the King of Cockroaches chasing pussy. That's why I don't like the spaceship and crew, and why I objected to Spike chasing that specific demon at the end of the fight. And Spike looked so cool driving around in a sports car with Illyria. 

I expect a lot of problems in S9 with writers being able to pick and choose what magic stayed and what magic is gone. Continuity is going to be worse than ever and there could be a lot of problems with things just not making sense. An editor will really have to stay on top of the comic to keep things on an even keel and I don't think Scott Allie is up to that. He didn't even notice when Jeanty made up a new character. Jeanty took the blame for that, but really the editor should have caught it.

Oh well, the entire season has inspired me to do a whole series of artwork on women so at least something good came out of it for me.

  

I have been watching season 4, 5 and the Dreamscapes episodes - the dreamscapes for a discussion over at Buffy Tube on the triad of "Dead Things" "As You Were"  and little of "Normal Again"  -  it made me realize how unrealistic it is for me to expect much from the comic books.   The interest of the publishing companies is just so very different  and the format, unless the series is totally committed to a deep and mature exploration of the characters, will never satisfy the viewer like myself.  Everything that was so compelling about the series is mostly missing from the comic books - I did like very much AtF and the spin off issues.  I've not enjoyed the new Spike series,  I can't stand Drusilla, the epitome of elegance and thin to the point of looking anorexic, as a Mae West variation.  Taking one of the greatest things of all the Spike and Buffy journey  and using it as a dumb plot device aka Soul Flu and now this thing with John - to me it serves only to take away from what was great in his journey.  Why the devil does Spike have to go through another round of "measuring up to Angel?"  that was taken care of in the earliest part of Angel Season 5.  That Beck character, why the need to bring in yet another beautiful young girl character - what is her function?  Are they setting her up as a new romantic interest for Spike?  Hell, why would a character who has lived through all this shit he has and been in this world for such a long time be at all interested in this character?  Is she a Dawn substitute? 

The only time that I have any real emotional response to any thing in the comic books is when all the Super Hero and Story Plot Elements are cast aside and we have the character acting like real human beings that connect with each other as real people.  The great sequence with Connor and Angel in one of the latest issue is a good example - or the Illyria and Spike encounter in the Illyria series.   There is just something missing and not right about what is being done with these characters. 

With Buffy Season 8 I had to really work hard and find hidden layers and outside references to get through it - or I had to feel all my anger and great disappointment with the violence against women by men and then to have their prime female character fulfill  the "willing victim" role.  And why bother to have any concerns for all the death and destruction facilitated by Angel/Twangel/Whatever - what's a few hundred or thousand deaths matter  when the friggin character were actually being controlled by some outside super force.  Why would  the readers become invested in the actions of Angel/Twangel if it all comes down to "the devil made me do it?" 

I just keep buying all these damn comic books because I love all these characters so much and want more Buffyverse and Angelverse stories.   I had better just be happy that Spike has the last series with IDW  - with the abysmal sales of the Spike series Dark Horse will have no interest or reason to give him a separate series - Spike fans will be super lucky if DH brings out even a small mini-series, bugs or no bugs.
 

I have been watching season 4, 5 and the Dreamscapes episodes - the dreamscapes for a discussion over at Buffy Tube on the triad of "Dead Things" "As You Were"  and little of "Normal Again"  -  it made me realize how unrealistic it is for me to expect much from the comic books.   The interest of the publishing companies is just so very different  and the format, unless the series is totally committed to a deep and mature exploration of the characters, will never satisfy the viewer like myself.  Everything that was so compelling about the series is mostly missing from the comic books - I did like very much AtF and the spin off issues.  I've not enjoyed the new Spike series,  I can't stand Drusilla, the epitome of elegance and thin to the point of looking anorexic, as a Mae West variation.  Taking one of the greatest things of all the Spike and Buffy journey  and using it as a dumb plot device aka Soul Flu and now this thing with John - to me it serves only to take away from what was great in his journey.  Why the devil does Spike have to go through another round of "measuring up to Angel?"  that was taken care of in the earliest part of Angel Season 5.  That Beck character, why the need to bring in yet another beautiful young girl character - what is her function?  Are they setting her up as a new romantic interest for Spike?  Hell, why would a character who has lived through all this shit he has and been in this world for such a long time be at all interested in this character?  Is she a Dawn substitute? 

 

You have every right to expect a good storyline out of comics. I've read comics for years they are capable of exploration of people's thoughts, feelings and motives (since you can have thought bubbles) . But a dreck storyline is still a dreck storyline no matter the format.

But what's with this soul flu thing? Are they trying to once again undermine Spike's soul? If they are it's probably because Angel's theier golden boy and they don't want to come right out and say that him being a sick sadistic freak without a soul is because it's in him with one. That he isn't the be all and end all of vampirism.

It's like they are driving a train straight into a stalled one and they can't admit they took the wrong path and divert to another track so they'll just smash into the other train out of sheer stubborness.

The Spike Soul Flu was how the Bill Willingham arc was resolved - Spike was acting strange and doing weird things like having sex next with that film star (the nonsense Spike with Heart Shorts episode)  which was turned vampire when Angel was captured and being used to turn humans into vamps which were suppose to retain their souls - anyway that is what I know of the series.  Spike was also in need of some serious validation and hired writers to create prophecies that were for Spike - after all, why does Angel/Angelus get to be  destiny vamp?  Ends up Spike's soul went a tad sick.  Spike is off to finally find himself and be his own manvamp with no Angel connections in Las Vegas now in the Brian Lynch series.  With Willow coming in a crossover which will give background on the Alien Insect and his Steam punk Ship. 

  
Is photobucket still the only way or easiest to post an image?

HUH?  I've just read all these posts, and it makes me even more glad I avoided the comics. The plot turns sound bizarre!  But I do have to admit to curiosity.  From what you've all written above, it seems Giles is dead (killed by Angel?), Dawn and Xander are married, and Spike is doing something with alien bugs, and the powers of witchcraft come from outerspace.???

None of this seems even remotely logical.  (It sounds like Charlie Sheen has taken over the writing for the Buffy comics!)

 I would like to read an overview of where season 8 takes the plot and characters so I know what forum people are talking about when they write about it.  Does anyone know of a place where I can find a short synopsis?

Dawn and Xander are just shacking up.  Spike and the bug thing is, sadly, true.

Someone - I think it's Slayalive (which is a forum, or a board or blog  run by angearia) - is doing an issue-by-issue reread. Of course that's not an over view, it's going to be the whole, cracky season, parts of which are better left behind. LOL It's a very long "season" and a lot happens to a lot of characters. Do you realy want to know about the whole season, or just the last arc which is what most of the recent flailing has been about?
And yes, Angel/Twilight has killed Giles, Buffy destroyed the egg (don't ask) which took all the magic out of the world (and also sent most of the demons away, thus saving the world from that invasion), Spike had shown up a few issues earlier in a steampunk looking space ship operated by giant bugs. He helps in the fight. Twilight/Angel tries to kill him, but Buffy pulls him away, blah, blah. And now, all we know about everybody is that Giles left his house and all his money to Faith, Buffy is once again waitressing and living with Dawn and Xander, many of the girls she empowered aren't happy about it and some of them are combining with disgruntled ex-witches to make her life miserable. Spike and Buffy are somewhat tentative around each other, although he is still supportive. For some reason, he is not invited in to Dawn and Xander's. We don't know if that's because she hasn't told them he comes to see her once in while, or if they won't let him in. (Which makes no sense, he came to help and he did, so no reason to be mad at him). Anyway, that's a recap of the last couple of issues.  There's more. Alas

I am pretty sure that a Buffy wiki for the comic books exists - Slayalive I think also has some of the transcripts. I would try the wiki for summary -

My personal evil plot bunny for post season 8 is for someone to find out that Slayers are no longer automatically let into heaven (I'm not saying they were but for this plot bunny they were) and that that privelege has been revoked based solely on Buffy's behavior from when she was removed from Heaven and on. The person who informs them of this says that thanks to Buffyu there will be a Slayer army in Hell because of all the Slayers Buffy corrupted with her bad example and influence.

I just reread the entire season 8. 

Mainly I had to reread it because i could not see how Buffy could not tell that "Twilight" was in fact Angel.  Especially when Giles recognizes his voice later, after Twilight ditched Amy, who apparently had disguised his voice in some way, but still Buffy couldn't tell it was Angel? Guess maybe he's not her soul mate after all.

So Twilight has been coming since #1 which truthfully was very different from the way the TV show was set up, there'd always be a mini-bad with a Big Bad showing up out of the blue later in the season. Although you could say Angel trying to be Twilight was the mini-bad and Angel being taken over by Twilight was the Big Bad. Hmm...

The Seed of Wonder is stated as being "the source of all the magic in the world... the only thing powerful enough to keep [the Earth] from bleeding back [into the previous Dimension]" Removing it is of course, bad. Willow tells Buffy that no one can get to the seed, that they need to protect it, but she doesn't say what the consequences will be, and I have a feeling that snake lady told Willow that it was Buffy who broke it... I mean look at her face on #37 page 21. She looks a little frantic and very worried.  

Also references to what happens to the Seed show up as early as #10 when Willow and Buffy get a glimpse of the future. 
"The final triumph of the base humans over the demons. Its your life's goal achieved Slayer. The Death of Magic." Then on page 21 we see the broken seed, and page 22 a very close image of what later occurs in the final pages of #39. Along with Buffy's questioning "What happens to me here?" and Robin's haunting words "Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected."

And in #40 Buffy herself seems unsure as to what the actual betrayal was, but is sure that it was "boinking Twilight" and I noticed here especially that she says Twilight and not Angel cause even though per Faith she can't stand to look at Angel, she still tends to separate Angel from Angelus from Twilight. 

I also think it isn't just Giles' death that caused her such suffering as seen in that panel in #39, but also the death of magic, which she sees as her failure. If you recall from the issue where she saves Willow from torture with Satsu, #4. Willow states that Buffy has "a peice of me inside of her" and Buffy's eyes go Black and she does magic. So knowing that Buffy has magic inside of her and seeing how loosing that magic affects Willow in #39, it could be assumed that part of Buffy's suffering is from losing the magic inside her from Willow, and Twilight and the new demons from the other world being removed... 
Also I think that Willow connects herself to the Seed in #39 and that leads to the badness we saw in No Future for you.  

Speaking of which, Fray's world. Buffy was said to have removed all slayers, demons and vampires from the world in one final battle.  We know from Willow's speech in #40 that the slayers all kept their powers but that no new slayers are being called, and we saw in #39 that all/most of the "new world" demons we sucked back in the portals... but we don't know for sure about if there are any new vamps being made. Which brings me to #40 page 26, panel 4... the guy with the glasses "and then some" covered in blood, holding out a hand.  I gotta say I think its a vamp, and if I had to guess I'd go with the Immortal.  I mean really we never did see what was up with the Buffy imposter in Rome or got a good look at what the Immortal looks like either.  What if there's some Vamp!Slayer that looks like Buffy out there now? Also we saw a slayer get turned in Tales of the Vampires, but never saw what happened to her after.  

I did love that both Buffy and Dawn mentioned the Angel/Spike kissage from Buffy's nightmare.  Buffy in 39 when she saves Spike from being dusted by Twilight, and Dawn when she wakes Buffy up from her nightmare in #40. 
Someone earlier mentioned the Vampyr book... I read that it was confirmed by the artist to be the Slayer handbook.  Which is why Giles tried to give it to her in Season 1, and why Faith gives her speech about Buffy truly being The Slayer.

Also I gotta say that I didn't relish the last line of the comic "Let's go to work" cause that is exactly what Angel said at the end of season 5 in the alley.  I kinda wish Joss had her say something else. 

Also I think that Willow connects herself to the Seed in #39 and that leads to the badness we saw in No Future for you.  


Sorry Meant Time of your Life. 

I just reread the entire season 8. 

Mainly I had to reread it because i could not see how Buffy could not tell that "Twilight" was in fact Angel.  Especially when Giles recognizes his voice later, after Twilight ditched Amy, who apparently had disguised his voice in some way, but still Buffy couldn't tell it was Angel? Guess maybe he's not her soul mate after all.

So Twilight has been coming since #1 which truthfully was very different from the way the TV show was set up, there'd always be a mini-bad with a Big Bad showing up out of the blue later in the season. Although you could say Angel trying to be Twilight was the mini-bad and Angel being taken over by Twilight was the Big Bad. Hmm...

The Seed of Wonder is stated as being "the source of all the magic in the world... the only thing powerful enough to keep [the Earth] from bleeding back [into the previous Dimension]" Removing it is of course, bad. Willow tells Buffy that no one can get to the seed, that they need to protect it, but she doesn't say what the consequences will be, and I have a feeling that snake lady told Willow that it was Buffy who broke it... I mean look at her face on #37 page 21. She looks a little frantic and very worried.  

Also references to what happens to the Seed show up as early as #10 when Willow and Buffy get a glimpse of the future. 
"The final triumph of the base humans over the demons. Its your life's goal achieved Slayer. The Death of Magic." Then on page 21 we see the broken seed, and page 22 a very close image of what later occurs in the final pages of #39. Along with Buffy's questioning "What happens to me here?" and Robin's haunting words "Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected."

And in #40 Buffy herself seems unsure as to what the actual betrayal was, but is sure that it was "boinking Twilight" and I noticed here especially that she says Twilight and not Angel cause even though per Faith she can't stand to look at Angel, she still tends to separate Angel from Angelus from Twilight. 

I also think it isn't just Giles' death that caused her such suffering as seen in that panel in #39, but also the death of magic, which she sees as her failure. If you recall from the issue where she saves Willow from torture with Satsu, #4. Willow states that Buffy has "a peice of me inside of her" and Buffy's eyes go Black and she does magic. So knowing that Buffy has magic inside of her and seeing how loosing that magic affects Willow in #39, it could be assumed that part of Buffy's suffering is from losing the magic inside her from Willow, and Twilight and the new demons from the other world being removed... 
Also I think that Willow connects herself to the Seed in #39 and that leads to the badness we saw in No Future for you.  

Speaking of which, Fray's world. Buffy was said to have removed all slayers, demons and vampires from the world in one final battle.  We know from Willow's speech in #40 that the slayers all kept their powers but that no new slayers are being called, and we saw in #39 that all/most of the "new world" demons we sucked back in the portals... but we don't know for sure about if there are any new vamps being made. Which brings me to #40 page 26, panel 4... the guy with the glasses "and then some" covered in blood, holding out a hand.  I gotta say I think its a vamp, and if I had to guess I'd go with the Immortal.  I mean really we never did see what was up with the Buffy imposter in Rome or got a good look at what the Immortal looks like either.  What if there's some Vamp!Slayer that looks like Buffy out there now? Also we saw a slayer get turned in Tales of the Vampires, but never saw what happened to her after.  

I did love that both Buffy and Dawn mentioned the Angel/Spike kissage from Buffy's nightmare.  Buffy in 39 when she saves Spike from being dusted by Twilight, and Dawn when she wakes Buffy up from her nightmare in #40. 
Someone earlier mentioned the Vampyr book... I read that it was confirmed by the artist to be the Slayer handbook.  Which is why Giles tried to give it to her in Season 1, and why Faith gives her speech about Buffy truly being The Slayer.

Also I gotta say that I didn't relish the last line of the comic "Let's go to work" cause that is exactly what Angel said at the end of season 5 in the alley.  I kinda wish Joss had her say something else. 

*sigh* Now you've got me thinking I need to reread the whole season, and I really, really, don't want to do that! It makes my brain hurt. :)

And in #40 Buffy herself seems unsure as to what the actual betrayal was, but is sure that it was "boinking Twilight" and I noticed here especially that she says Twilight and not Angel cause even though per Faith she can't stand to look at Angel, she still tends to separate Angel from Angelus from Twilight. 


Hm, i think she phrased that exactly right. Because, "boinking Angel" might be unpleasant for Spuffy fans - but it is not exactly a betrayal. Buffy can "boink" whomever she wants. But, throwing in with the figurehead of the enemy of her girls (aka TWILIGHT), that is for sure a betrayal.




Also I gotta say that I didn't relish the last line of the comic "Let's go to work" cause that is exactly what Angel said at the end of season 5 in the alley.  I kinda wish Joss had her say something else. 


Again, i think this resonates nicely. While both, Buffy and Angel say the same thing, they mean totally different things with that. "Let's go to work" on AtS was a (stupid) suicide mission to "stick it to the man", while Buffy means saving people by it, fighting the "good fight".

See what You did there? I spoke about the comics without mocking then, damn You! ;-)

Boinking both Satsu and Twilight was a betrayal to me . Boinking Twilight was a betrayal because he killed all those girls and by boinking him she was betraying them and saying that thier lives meant nothing to her. And if you think of the fact that we were left with the impression that Buffy sent Angel away to keep him safe (in the finale) and chose Spike to die in his place than it is a betrayal of Spuffy because it seems to confirm that impression.

Boinking Satsu was a betrayal of Satsu and of her command. She knew Satsu was in love with her adn there's no way she couldn't have known she was leading her on. People can say that Satsu knew what she was doing but Satsu was in love and her hopes were raised. Not only were they raised but they were raised by somone who she would have been taight to look up to as a hero. If your straight female hero that you are in love with sleep with your female self then you have been given plenty of reason to hope that there is a relationship happening and not a two night stand. And Buffy's immediatacy in stating that she is still straight is a betrayal as well because it is a complete falsehood and says that Satsu didn't even mean enough to her for her to admit she's bisexual (and what is JW's problem with admitting bisexuality -has he looked up the definition?) . Poor Satsu's hopes were already raised though because hope is easily raised and dies hard . We saw that Satsu still had hopes the next time she saw Buffy after being shipped off in the ep where Kennedy admitted that Buffy had led her on. Leading her on made her worse than Parker. He wasn't her commander or under any impression she was in love with him. Heroes with feet of clay are alright but heroes that are outright cruel and callous are another.

And if you think this rant is long you should hear me on Chuck season 3 and how they still need to fix things from that.

Thanks for filling me in...I think I can sum it all up in just two words:

GOOD GRIEF!

PS I thought Joss once promised that no matter what he did to minor characters, he would never, ever kill anyone of the "original" group...wouldn't that include Giles? 

PS I thought Joss once promised that no matter what he did to minor characters, he would never, ever kill anyone of the "original" group...wouldn't that include Giles? 


Maybe he forgot that promise.

Heck Anthony Stewart Head  playing Giles was the reason I watched in the first place (I loved him in VR5 before Buffy started) .

Technically though he already broke that promise twice with Buffy. She just didn't stay dead.

Here is the lovely Jenny Frison Spike Las Vegas Incentive Cover  for issue 5 - I have a few other images from the Illyria final issue as well - just scroll down the page a bit.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nmcil/     The Illyria series ended up being pretty interesting as a potenial connection to the Buffy S8 and the Angel/Twilight arc.   I also have some of my Spuffy Editions posted.

Boinking both Satsu and Twilight was a betrayal to me . Boinking Twilight was a betrayal because he killed all those girls and by boinking him she was betraying them and saying that thier lives meant nothing to her. And if you think of the fact that we were left with the impression that Buffy sent Angel away to keep him safe (in the finale) and chose Spike to die in his place than it is a betrayal of Spuffy because it seems to confirm that impression.

Boinking Satsu was a betrayal of Satsu and of her command. She knew Satsu was in love with her adn there's no way she couldn't have known she was leading her on. People can say that Satsu knew what she was doing but Satsu was in love and her hopes were raised. Not only were they raised but they were raised by somone who she would have been taight to look up to as a hero. If your straight female hero that you are in love with sleep with your female self then you have been given plenty of reason to hope that there is a relationship happening and not a two night stand. And Buffy's immediatacy in stating that she is still straight is a betrayal as well because it is a complete falsehood and says that Satsu didn't even mean enough to her for her to admit she's bisexual (and what is JW's problem with admitting bisexuality -has he looked up the definition?) . Poor Satsu's hopes were already raised though because hope is easily raised and dies hard . We saw that Satsu still had hopes the next time she saw Buffy after being shipped off in the ep where Kennedy admitted that Buffy had led her on. Leading her on made her worse than Parker. He wasn't her commander or under any impression she was in love with him. Heroes with feet of clay are alright but heroes that are outright cruel and callous are another.

And if you think this rant is long you should hear me on Chuck season 3 and how they still need to fix things from that.



You don't enjoy the sexual act as much as Buffy did - and clearly her WOW's and great pleasure expressed tell us how much she  did like it - and then get to fall back on saying your are not bi-sexual.   From my perspective, Buffy is now what I would call bi-sexual. 

You don't enjoy the sexual act as much as Buffy did - and clearly her WOW's and great pleasure expressed tell us how much she  did like it - and then get to fall back on saying your are not bi-sexual.   From my perspective, Buffy is now what I would call bi-sexual. 

Exactly! Both Buffy and Willow are bisexual in my books. Willow is bi with a strong preference for or equal interest in women since she's had 3 female lovers , 1 male and a long time crush on Xander (who she cheated on Oz with ) . There really isn't a big enough pool to figure out her preference and she's enough of a control freak to only persue women even if a man interests her because she declared herself gay now .

Buffy seems to be Bi with a strong preference for men with her 4 male lovers and one female. Plus the fact that the female lover only occured once she was only surrounded by women and a few males she considered family (plus a squirrly little possibly gay man) . Her interest in Xander came after all the girls would have known about Satsu's treatment (and would have avoided any sexual interest in thier directions like it was the plague ) and she was desperately flailing. There was possibly an element of sexual competition with her sister (with her thinking that since Dawn was made from her that what was Dawn's was hers) complicated by the feeling that Xander was her property (bolstered by years of his behavior) with more than a touch of ego that she should get whatever she wants. That last bit was probabaly bostered by the fact that she got away with her ill use of Satsu and Spike and was never called on her bad behavior with either . With Satus they joked about Buffy going after Willow's girlfriend (and the bedroom discovery was played as a farce) and with Spike all blame was laid on him while Buffy played the victim.

Spike is possibly bi with a strong preference for women. I say possibly because while they said there was that one time with Angel, Spike's character (combined with the fact that Angel is a rapist) might lead him to not admit it was rape in order to not appear a victim. The same thing might keep him from admitting that Buffy was physically and emotionally abusive and Dru was emotionally abusive.

With Angel , I'd classify him as bisexual but more because he doesn't care about gender than any genuine attraction to both sexes. Innocence is what attract him and destroying that innocence is what gets him off. There doesn't necessarily have to be a sexual component involved for him to do that . While he did enjoy Darla's talents in bed , they weren't his main kink. Destroying Dru was his main kink and keeping her around so he could relive the destruction (like a seriel killer keeping a trophy) got him off. Bringing Spike into the mix and watching his pain (and the destruction of his innocence) when Dru went to him who destroyed her increased his pleasure .One interesting thing I think adds to this theory is that he was able to kill Darla (when she got in the way of his acquisition /destruction of Buffy) but he was never able to do more than hurt Dru badly. He has some affection for Darla and enjoys her as a bed partner and partner in crime but his obsession with the destruction of innocence and control over those he destroys takes precedence over that affection.

That's why he has so much animosity towards Spike. He never destroyed him or controlled him. He hurt him badly but Spike still loves and Spike is far stronger than the ones he broke .

Really? I don't think she led her on at all. In A Beautiful Sunset, Satsu and Buffy talk about it, about Satsu's feelings, and about the inherent problems there (many of which had nothing to do with Satsu being a girl) and Buffy treated her with respect and affection through the whole thing. Yes, Satsu should have known what she was getting into, and she took that risk, not Buffy. It's not as though Buffy coerced her into bed twice and then rejected her! Satsu was clearly an equal partner in this, and when she accepts that Buffy's not going to switch teams for her, they still spend that last night together for Satsu, not Buffy. I'd say it was actually handled nicely.

And as for bisexuality- to have a brief sexual relationship with someone of the same gender doesn't make you bisexual (and I'd argue vehemently against forcing labels onto people who identify differently). If we're going to get technical, a girl can give another girl sexual pleasure just as easily if she's attracted to her or not. And Buffy shows no signs of being attracted to Satsu, even if she does find her attractive.  So I don't think she's bisexual at all, latent or not, just like not every girl who experiments with a friend in college is bisexual.

I do agree that vampires, as a whole, seem unconcerned with gender, though I'm not sure if that's actually canon or fanon- it's so easy to confuse them when most of the main vampires on both shows seem to ooze sexuality. ;)

Really? I don't think she led her on at all. In A Beautiful Sunset, Satsu and Buffy talk about it, about Satsu's feelings, and about the inherent problems there (many of which had nothing to do with Satsu being a girl) and Buffy treated her with respect and affection through the whole thing. Yes, Satsu should have known what she was getting into, and she took that risk, not Buffy. It's not as though Buffy coerced her into bed twice and then rejected her! Satsu was clearly an equal partner in this, and when she accepts that Buffy's not going to switch teams for her, they still spend that last night together for Satsu, not Buffy. I'd say it was actually handled nicely.

And as for bisexuality- to have a brief sexual relationship with someone of the same gender doesn't make you bisexual (and I'd argue vehemently against forcing labels onto people who identify differently). If we're going to get technical, a girl can give another girl sexual pleasure just as easily if she's attracted to her or not. And Buffy shows no signs of being attracted to Satsu, even if she does find her attractive.  So I don't think she's bisexual at all, latent or not, just like not every girl who experiments with a friend in college is bisexual.

I do agree that vampires, as a whole, seem unconcerned with gender, though I'm not sure if that's actually canon or fanon- it's so easy to confuse them when most of the main vampires on both shows seem to ooze sexuality. ;)

Satsu being in love meant that she wasn't thinking with her head but with her heart. Buffy had the moral responsibility to not lead her on. It was admitted in canon that Buffy led her on. Slleping with someone you know is in love with you especially if they know that you know is giving them hope no matter how much they say that they understand.

And Buffy's wow's after sleeping with Satsu certainly indicate enjoyment so that screams attraction to me.

Buffy's behavior when she sees Satsu again (where she ignores her ) does not seem like the act of somoene who cares but someone who's done with her. Satsu's hurt then would definitely indicate that she had her hopes up.

Plus think about it . This isn't the first time she's used someone she knew was in love with her for sex. Sure Satsu was a big girl and Spike was a big boy. Both were in love with her , we know for sure that Buffy was the one who turned the relationship sexual with Spike at least. There was an attempt at denying with Satsu the same way she did with Spike by telling her it couldn't get out(before everyone barged in) . With Satsu she couldn't even use the bulls**t excuses she used with Spike (He's a vampire he can't love) . Both Satsu and Spike were impeded by thier love for Buffy and she hurt them both. She never showed any sign of remorse over that.

Doing that once is a bad act , doing it twice is a serious character flaw.

Buffy is a strong fighter but as a person she is incredibly weak and lacks ethics. It's like the times she rises to the occassion makes her unable to be a decent person the rest of the time. Frankly I would have loved for Buffy to have grown up in canon and become a at least partially functioning adult. At least in fanfic we get that.

Whoever designated Buffy as a feminist icon was way off the mark. Rupaul would make a better feminist icon (and he's a man) because he's certainly a lot braver than Buffy .

Frankly I started watching Buffy for Giles , it shifted to watching for Spike . I didn't watch Buffy for Buffy (or Angel) and more than I watche dtwo and half men for Charlie sheen.

Saying that the second night spent togethe was for Satsu actually makes Buffy look worse. it means she was willing to leave it at a one night stand , Satsu was the one who want it to be less seedy.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree on all counts. Satsu and Buffy had discussed it beforehand in a mature and fair discussion. They had sex- mutually beneficial and enjoyable sex- but Buffy was still the leader and still had other responsibilities. No, she wasn't going to coo to Satsu over a viewscreen mid-crisis! And if she did, I'm sure that everyone would condemn her for putting romance ahead of human lives! Satsu saw, Satsu realized, and Satsu (with the help of Willow) understood that and decided that she'd go elsewhere, because she didn't want to stay around the woman she was in love with when that woman is straight. ANd then we finish off with this:Which part of this is "seedy?" This is Satsu asking for one last night, for the memories, and coming on to Buffy, fully aware that it isn't going to last or anything else. This is goodbye, and Buffy agreed to give it to her.

None of this is a character flaw. Buffy had sex. She enjoyed it. So did Satsu. Why are we condemning it again? Give the girl some happiness for a change! And Buffy's ethical and principled, and while I'm not going to get into an argument about Spike pushing for things that Buffy had never promised him because that's not what this thread is about, I don't think that it's valid to say that Buffy was wrong in S6, either. And the only reason why she punishes herself for being with Spike without love involved is because she holds herself to a higher moral standard than most people would. I think Buffy treated Satsu's feelings with respect and understanding, gave and loved without compromising her duty or her identity, and Satsu's later sniping about it was simple immaturity (that Kennedy smacks out of her pretty quickly). 

And Buffy, not a mature adult? Buffy is strong and selfless and giving. She starts out as an innocent girl ready to reject her calling to be normal, and sacrifices all that to save billions of people on a daily basis. She learns to love, to forgive, to become more by accepting others. She returns from the dead with her support system gone, and still manages to take care of her friends, family, and slaying without ever complaining. Death is easy. Buffy chooses to live. Then, she takes the vampire who's betrayed her time and again, attempted to make amends, and then returned to betrayal, gives him a chance to redeem himself, gives him her faith and shelter and trust and finally love, and beats the Big Bad in the process. 

And that's just the show. So please, don't tell me that Buffy's weak or a nonfunctional adult. She's a general, a hero, and an all-around good person who just doesn't happen to have piercing blue eyes and unbelievable cheekbones but is still a hero. 

Just because you don't watch for Buffy doesn't mean that she has to be the villian. I didn't watch the show for Spike, and I still think he's a pretty good guy most of the time. :

And re: saying "wow" and enjoying yourself during sex. People masturbate all the time to reach orgasm. Does that mean they're attracted to themselves? Of course not. And it's a proven scientific fact that a woman can be aroused physically without being aroused mentally. Enjoying sex with a girl doesn't mean that you're gay; it means that the girl just happens to know how to get you off. Sex and sexuality are not the same thing.

All of what coalitiongirl said. :)

I never said Buffy not being the reason I watched made her a villian.

Buffy may have acted concerened in the short term but in the long term we see her ignore Satsu's existence the nect time she sees her and it's admitted in the comics that Buffy led her on.

Buffy may have acted concerened in the short term but in the long term we see her ignore Satsu's existence the nect time she sees her and it's admitted in the comics that Buffy led her on.

Actually, this is the next scene, in which Satsu is insubordinate in public (mind you, in front of an audience who knows about their relationship and might think that Satsu would get special treatment because of it) and Buffy doesn't take it.

Can you imagine the scandal if she did, if she gave one member of her army preference over the rest because she was sleeping with her? Then she might be deserving of all those insults you leveled at her before. But no, Buffy keeps taking the high road, despite everything levelled against her.

I never said Buffy not being the reason I watched made her a villian. My apologies. I just assumed, based on your rather harsh attack on Buffy in your post, that you had no respect or tolerance for her. But if that's not the case, then I'm glad that we're in agreement that characters that aren't Spike are pretty okay, too. (I've recently been working on "this or that" posts on Tumblr, where people give me two characters and I post a graphic of one, and I've been disappointed at how many people have responded with "I like ____ better because he gets along better with Spike" instead of judging the character on his/her own merit. I've been very disappointed by this, so I'm glad that you agree with me. :) )

To go what CG wrote way back up there (about the vampires not really caring about gender), I think that's more fanon (at least, there are examples of it not being true- Harmony wouldn't have a threesome with another girl)...and we can blame Anne Rice for the bi assumption. lol

Really? I don't think she led her on at all. In A Beautiful Sunset, Satsu and Buffy talk about it, about Satsu's feelings, and about the inherent problems there (many of which had nothing to do with Satsu being a girl) and Buffy treated her with respect and affection through the whole thing. Yes, Satsu should have known what she was getting into, and she took that risk, not Buffy. It's not as though Buffy coerced her into bed twice and then rejected her! Satsu was clearly an equal partner in this, and when she accepts that Buffy's not going to switch teams for her, they still spend that last night together for Satsu, not Buffy. I'd say it was actually handled nicely.

And as for bisexuality- to have a brief sexual relationship with someone of the same gender doesn't make you bisexual (and I'd argue vehemently against forcing labels onto people who identify differently). If we're going to get technical, a girl can give another girl sexual pleasure just as easily if she's attracted to her or not. And Buffy shows no signs of being attracted to Satsu, even if she does find her attractive.  So I don't think she's bisexual at all, latent or not, just like not every girl who experiments with a friend in college is bisexual.

I do agree that vampires, as a whole, seem unconcerned with gender, though I'm not sure if that's actually canon or fanon- it's so easy to confuse them when most of the main vampires on both shows seem to ooze sexuality. ;)

What I am calling "bi-sexual" is someone who will have sex with either male or female - that is how I define it.  Plus, I think that Buffy would engage in another sexual experience with a woman after her experience with Satsu and how much she enjoyed that sexual encounter.  Does Buffy prefer her love and experience with her male lovers?  Based on her emotional connection to Angel, Riley and Spike I would say yes - but as far the the pleasure from the sexual experience with Satsu and the men as shown in the TV Era - she enjoyed both equally physically.

Niori, that's probably true (although we know that Darla and Dru were willing to have a threesome with The Immortal and Angelus and Spike have also been involved, they may be the exception to the rule).

Nmcil, bisexuality is generally defined as an attraction to both sexes. I know many people who identify as bisexual but haven't had sex with either a male or a female- it's about who they'd want to have sex with. We know that Buffy isn't attracted to females, nor would she engage in more sex with them, because she states it in the comics. And that's the only true source that we have for this, since speculation isn't fact. 

Again, enjoying sex with someone isn't equal to being attracted to the person or changing sexuality. Like I've mentioned, that would make every straight woman who masturbated bisexual; and every person who experiments (and realizes that women/men aren't for her/him) bisexual, too. Buffy experimented. She acknowledged that she was still straight, and that's why Satsu had so much trouble with it.

Niori, that's probably true (although we know that Darla and Dru were willing to have a threesome with The Immortal and Angelus and Spike have also been involved, they may be the exception to the rule).

Nmcil, bisexuality is generally defined as an attraction to both sexes. I know many people who identify as bisexual but haven't had sex with either a male or a female- it's about who they'd want to have sex with. We know that Buffy isn't attracted to females, nor would she engage in more sex with them, because she states it in the comics. And that's the only true source that we have for this, since speculation isn't fact. 

Again, enjoying sex with someone isn't equal to being attracted to the person or changing sexuality. Like I've mentioned, that would make every straight woman who masturbated bisexual; and every person who experiments (and realizes that women/men aren't for her/him) bisexual, too. Buffy experimented. She acknowledged that she was still straight, and that's why Satsu had so much trouble with it.

Thanks for the clarification on term bi-sexual  and Buffy comic book canon - 

Here are some scans of the new Spike Issue 6 -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nmcil/

Wow. I seriously need to get myself those Spike comics. From those scans, it looks awesome.

The series has been uneven but they have introduced some interesting developments on how Spike connects with his soul and how he handles his responsibility as The Vamp Alone & In Charge.  With the introduction of Drusilla, this new character John and now Willow the ending for Spike at IDW, I hope will be satisfying for all his fans and the general readership.  I sure hope so, this may be the last time that Spike will ever have is own issues - I sure want the finale to be a wonderful comment on Spike.

I stopped doing scans of the issues because I was reminded that it is not quite the right thing to scan full issues and make them public - what I have done is show some of the most important pages - all the first pages were posted on the other large comic books sites and  previews from IDW.

Well - we are coming to the end of Spike and a series devoted solely to Spike - Issue 7 comes out this Wednesday and we find out how Drusilla reacts to being given a soul - we know how well that has worked in the past for a newly ensouled vampire. 

Here is a fan cover to recognize the departure of Spike from IDW and for the last of a Spike series. 

I posted scans for Spike Issue 7 - these pick up after the preview scans that I am sure most of you have already seen -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nmcil/sets/72157626385392717/with/5624315529/

Although the series started slowly, those of us who stuck with it have been rewarded. I love that a Spike/Willow friendship has been established and hope it will be developed over at Dark Horse. I also think Spike's reaction when losing his soul is the strongest statement about the character that's ever been made in a canon story, including fighting for the soul in the first place and sacrificing himself in Chosen. For me, it was his finest moment.

We'd better enjoy it. We may never again get to see Spike written by someone who is a real fan of the character.

Although the series started slowly, those of us who stuck with it have been rewarded. I love that a Spike/Willow friendship has been established and hope it will be developed over at Dark Horse. I also think Spike's reaction when losing his soul is the strongest statement about the character that's ever been made in a canon story, including fighting for the soul in the first place and sacrificing himself in Chosen. For me, it was his finest moment.

We'd better enjoy it. We may never again get to see Spike written by someone who is a real fan of the character.

Amen, Nick.

ITA...I LOVE how IDW is treating our boy.  They have established that he was "good" and a hero without the soul, that it is and has always been his choice, that he can and does make good choices and take heroic action even without the soul.  LOVE how Willow acts towards him!!!!!  Ahhhhh had Buffy but been as happy to see him over at Dark Horse.  The implictions are that Spike's return after Chosen DID and DOES matter to Buffy is heartening.  I just love the whole story, the treatment of Willow and Spike (and I have always enjoyed his friends in the IDW world).  The artwork is excellent for the most part and the story feels in character.   I even love how they have handled Dru (and hope they address what Willow does with her in the final chapter).  Just wonderful really.  It was a treat to see Lilah too and funny how she is part of how Spike gets his bug ship.  Yes, I am happy with this, very happy.  

*lamenting Joss giving it all to Dark Horse*....ahhhhh what this group might have done had THEY been the ones to tell the further adventures of the whole group.  Methinks it would have been well worth the time, money and attention.  Also not likely to have hit us with spack f&&king Bangel porn LOL.

Kathleen

Speaking of the Bangel porn of Season8... I was just thinking that the phrase, "I don't give a flying F&ck" might be subconsciously working out there by writers LOL.

Kathleen

Wanted to say hello and Best Wishes and Happy Mother's Day to all who stayed with the comic books through the years -  I loved the ending last issues of the Spike Las Vegas series - I will be posting scans soon .  I will post when the scans are up.

Speaking of the Bangel porn of Season8... I was just thinking that the phrase, "I don't give a flying F&ck" might be subconsciously working out there by writers LOL.

Kathleen

LOL - you are bad -

ITA...I LOVE how IDW is treating our boy.  They have established that he was "good" and a hero without the soul, that it is and has always been his choice, that he can and does make good choices and take heroic action even without the soul.  LOVE how Willow acts towards him!!!!!  Ahhhhh had Buffy but been as happy to see him over at Dark Horse.  The implictions are that Spike's return after Chosen DID and DOES matter to Buffy is heartening.  I just love the whole story, the treatment of Willow and Spike (and I have always enjoyed his friends in the IDW world).  The artwork is excellent for the most part and the story feels in character.   I even love how they have handled Dru (and hope they address what Willow does with her in the final chapter).  Just wonderful really.  It was a treat to see Lilah too and funny how she is part of how Spike gets his bug ship.  Yes, I am happy with this, very happy.  

*lamenting Joss giving it all to Dark Horse*....ahhhhh what this group might have done had THEY been the ones to tell the further adventures of the whole group.  Methinks it would have been well worth the time, money and attention.  Also not likely to have hit us with spack f&&king Bangel porn LOL.

Kathleen

I think that the coming season is going to be MUCH BETTER - apparently this new writer likes powerful drama and is not turned off by exploration of the darker sides of characters - we know that Joss Whedon does not. 

With Angel - moving Faith over is probably the only thing that would get me to buy this new line post Angel/Twangel  and Space Frak/World Origin story. 

Oh yes.  I don't know HOW they'd put Angel into season 9 of Buffy after he murdered Giles!  Do hope they have Spike as part of the group though.  He belongs there even if Buffy is still withholding her love.  I'll likely read them if only from curiousity.  

I just can't see how they can easily redeem Angel this time.  Not going to buy it was all the spell....he listened to the temptation and went with it after all and he was soul intactus.

KAthleen

You can find scans for most of the final issue of Spike in Las Vegas at my picasa web album -

https://picasaweb.google.com/103058662790492748180/SpikeLasVegasIssue8#