BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Creepy, flattering, or meh?

May 21 2007 06:09 am   #1Scarlet Ibis

So, in another thread (the one where whether or not Angel was a pedophile), it came about if Spike having pictures of Buffy and the mannequin, etc., was creepy.  Though it was a bit extreme, considering that he knew her and saw her daily as opposed to being someone famous he admired from afar, I didn't think it was so creepy.  I've never done anything of the sort, but I do remember in grammar school that whenever I, as well as my friends, would have a crush on some guy, it would be important to have a picture of him- particularly with the crush.  Be it a yearbook or whatever, it seemed to be some sort of unspoken requirement when having a crush...

So, what do you guys think?  Was Spike creepy, or not so much?

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 21 2007 08:09 am   #2ZoeGrace

It was creepy.


But...

Creepy guys who are ugly. EEK

Creepy guys how are hot.  MEOW.

Okay, that's just MY twisted little self, but yes, basically it was creepy as hell but he was hot so it was okay.

May 21 2007 09:52 am   #3Guest

Creepy - no. A bit sad - yeah. It's the intent behind it, really. Spike respected the in-person boundary line, so I wasn't put off by his little "shrine". He was just trying to be as close as he could be allowed.......capture lightning in a bottle, so to speak. There was nothing sinister behind him having the items. It wasn't part of a plan to harm her.

CM

May 21 2007 11:28 am   #4ZoeGrace

Awwwww CM that just makes him sound so sweet, and not at all scary hehe.

May 21 2007 01:22 pm   #5slaymesoftly

I liked that view, CM. LOL  I was tempted to say "creepy" - which I am sure is how I would have seen it if I were Buffy (and let's not even go into the bot!), but you're right. It was more sad than creepy - just a way for him to have her around a bit more. Same thing for the bot, to some some extent. Although she was obstenisbly an animated sex toy - he had her programed to  love him and hated it when he was reminded that she was a machine.  Again, more to satisfy a craving for Buffy's affection as anything else.   Very sad, really. 

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
May 21 2007 04:12 pm   #6FetchingMadScientist

I don't see it as creepy.  It's sad, because the "shrine" was the only way he could be around her.  Same with the bot.  Underneath it all, Spike just wanted to be loved, and I think it was sad that he had to use an imitation to get it.  But that's what the shrine, and the bot, was, and Spike knew it too, an imitation.

"Never a fetching mad scientist about when you need one." -Spike
May 21 2007 04:55 pm   #7Blood Faerie

Well, I do remember the first time I saw the scene with him offering chocolates to the mannequin or whatever, then going ballistic on the chocolate box then just calming down again all schizo-like... well, that creeped me and I was like "eep"  But yeah, I was just generally sad for him besides that... and sometimes amused.

Unfortunately, we had big vampires in the next room, and I didn't think they'd wait while we had hot monkey sex. ~Cerulean Sins :: (Anita to Jean-Claude)“Is there anything your bloodline does that doesn’t involve getting naked?" ~Danse Macabre :: I’m dating three men, living with two more, and having occasional sex with two others. That’s seven men. I’m like a pornographic Snow White. I think seven is plenty. ~Danse Macabre
May 21 2007 07:59 pm   #8Eowyn315

Yeah, it's creepy, but not all that much more creepy than facebook-stalking your crush. (Scarlet, this is the age of the internet... we don't bother with yearbooks anymore, lol.)

In other words, not creepy enough to make me not love him.  

Also, I think the Buffybot would've been a lot creepier if it had been just a sexbot. But he really went out of his way to program it to BE Buffy - and he tried to treat it like a real person. (I mean, really, what's the point of going down on a robot? Does she really get pleasure out of it?) It was obvious that he wanted to be with Buffy, and made do with the best he could get. And like FMS said, he knew it was just an imitation, but it was all he had. So yeah, that's just sad...

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 21 2007 08:15 pm   #9Scarlet Ibis

E- yes, I know about the age of the internet, I just meant that when I was in grammar school... It wasn't so much about the internet then- more about snapping a picture of crush on a trip or something so it wouldn't be so obvious

And I never thought about the going down on a robot thing-- thanks for pointing that out.  Since the bot doesn't feel any real pleasure, and Spike was trying to please "Buffy," then no, it wasn't just about the sex (though that was clearly a huge part of it).  I still wonder though, if Spike hadn't noticed right away that it was really Buffy kissing him, how far would she have gone?  After all, he was the one who stopped kissing first...

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 21 2007 10:33 pm   #10ZoeGrace

yes, I so wish he hadn't been so beat up, because I think he would have grabbed her and shown her what she'd been missing.  I think in THAT moment, after he'd saved them, and before she'd been ripped out of heaven, they would have had a real shot.  Then later if the ripped out of heaven stuff happened, she would have known she could trust him.

May 21 2007 10:38 pm   #11Unbridled_Brunette

 I think that the mannequin had the potential to be creepy, depending on what Spike was doing with it (and get those minds out of the gutter when I say that!). When he was using the mannequin to practice talking to Buffy (such as his offering her the candy box after Riley absconded) I didn't see it creepy at all. Let's face it, the poor boy needed to practice his communication skills, and better he do it with a mannequin that he could safely take out his frustrations on, than a real person. If anything, that struck me as a little sad ... not pathetic, mind. But it really made me feel for him. During most of season five, he seemed very awkward and lonely, and his "talking" with the mannequin demonstrated that.

That being said, however, I did find his stroking the mannequin's disembodied head rather creepy. That was an indication of total obsession ... not really dangerous for Buffy but completely unhealthy for Spike.

The "shrine" I actually found rather sweet. We all like to have pictures of our loved ones nearby, so that we can look at them when we're sad and lonely. None of Spike's pictures were obscene or particularly intrusive, and the sketches were actually very artistic. I don't think Spike meant any harm by it, and although I can understand why Buffy wasn't flattered by it (after all, she didn't love him) I see no reason why she should have been as frightened as she seemed.

The bot seemed to suggest loneliness rather than obsession (I think, by this point, he had moved beyond obsession and into genuine love). Yes, Spike had sex with it. But the sex wasn't abusive or degrading; overall, I think it showed him to be a conscientious and tender lover. When the bot told him to bite her, he only kissed her neck instead. And when she asked about "starting the program over" he actually looked very upset. He didn't like to be jolted out of his fantasy, because, after all, he didn't want a walking, talking sex toy. He wanted Buffy. He couldn't have her, so he made do with what he could have. I think at the end of the episode, Buffy actually came to understand that. There's real sympathy in her eyes when he bows his head and tells her sadly, "It wasn't supposed to be ..."

It's sad that Spike never really seemed to move past his loneliness. Even when he was a human, it seemed like there was some type of barrier between him and his contemporaries. And as a vampire, Dru seemed to be the only one who truly understood him and cared for him. After Dru abandoned him, his constant desire to seek out the Scooby gang in seasons 4--7 shows that he did want a connection of some sort, not just with Buffy, but with everyone. Unfortunately, he never did achieve that.

Umm ... sorry. I really did ramble on here, didn't I?

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
May 21 2007 11:01 pm   #12slaymesoftly

Excellent rambling, UB.

Got to disagree about the "what would Spike or Buffy have done if he hadn't noticed she wasn't the Bot?" comments.   Buffy was simply thanking him for what he'd done in a way that she knew he would appreciate.  She was just then realizing that there was something more to his "obsession" than lust - but just barely. If he'd tried to make anything more of it than the quick 'thank you' that it was, she probably would have decked him.  He did look like he was planning to try for another kiss once he realized who she was, but she was already moving away with a "fat chance" expression on her face.  I can see a story where he deepens the kiss for a second or two and she enjoys it until they both realize what's going on - but if I were writing it, it would just lead to some Buffy confusion - not an immediate jumping of his bones.  It would be an excellent starting point for a different relationship, but just the first tiny step. 

Sorry, didn't mean to rant - I just like to see things develop slowly and realistically than "Buffy does Spike".  Usually....hee!

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
May 21 2007 11:39 pm   #13Eowyn315

Scarlet - I'm just teasing you... although facebook-stalking has really risen to an art form that people older than college age just don't realize. If there's a guy in your class you think is cute, you can find out every single detail about him, and more than likely, more embarrassing pictures than he'd ever want you to see.

And, you know, whenever I mention the thing about Spike going down on the robot, everyone always gives me that "why on earth are you thinking about that?" look, so I'm glad to hear it's appreciated. Another thing I pondered was - Spike had the bot programmed to want him to bite her, but what would happen if he really did? I mean, wouldn't he just get a mouthful of electronics? So, is that just a limitation of technology, or is it more important for Spike that Buffy accept that he's a vampire, and everything that goes along with it, than actually biting Buffy?

On the kiss - I think it's clear that it was a "thank you" kiss, and I think Spike knows that, and wouldn't have pushed his luck. I'm more curious about Buffy, and why she would do it in the first place. Okay, saying thank you, I get that... but that's what they make fruit baskets for! There are *whole racks* of Hallmark cards! You don't go around kissing the guy who's in love with you unless you intend to follow up. Or... wait... unless you're Buffy in Once More with Feeling. Or Tabula Rasa. Or... oh, never mind.

Random side note, UB - I may be making this up, but I think the sketches could have been Angelus'. I don't remember William or Spike ever having any artistic ability, but we do know that Angelus drew Buffy in season 2, and left her at least one of them. Not sure why Spike would've kept them that long (though it'd be very interesting if he did), but maybe Buffy kept them and Spike stole them along with the pictures. I'd have to go back and look closer to see if the style matched, etc. But I think they were very similar.

Ack! Edited because I forgot something - when UB said "conscientious lover" it reminded me that, if you watch the Spike/bot sex, it's actually a lot more romantic than anything that happens in season 6... which says a lot about both of them, I think.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 22 2007 01:19 am   #14ZoeGrace

patti, perhaps I was projecting.  Cause *I* would have been all over him lol.

"take me you evil fiend."

May 22 2007 01:58 am   #15Scarlet Ibis

Well, I don't think that she necessarily would have "jumped his bones," but I think it could have been more than just a chaste kiss as well. And, it wasn't necessary to kiss him- there are cards and stuff she could have given him.  Or beer, smokes... why a kiss? 

As for the bot sex in comparison to s6 sex, the only time (that it seemed to me anyway) that Buffy *allowed* Spike to be tender with her (cause let's face it- the rough sex was mostly her) was when she was invisible.  So weird...

And further more- I still don't get why Spike keeping pictures of her and stuff is found to be so disturbing (I think he did draw the sketches himself- I don't see Buffy keeping pics Angelus drew) enough to give him a disinvite on her home, as opposed to when he tried to get the chip out and kill her.  When he's trying to kill her, he isn't dangerous (in Buffy's mind). But when he's nice to her, opening doors, making it clear he's on her side cause he's in love with her- *that's* what she finds creepy and disturbing?!  No friggin' way, man...  If I had to chose, I'd rather have my mortal enemy in love with me, pictures and all, as opposed to wanting to make my neck his chalice, hands down- whether I was attracted to him or not.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 22 2007 03:05 am   #16TwilightChild

   Considering each and every one of us probably has mutiple pictures of James Marsters on our computers, and some of us even have pics of his head photoshopped onto naked men's bodies, I somehow fail to find his collection of photos 'creepy'.  I mean, yeah, I can understand why Buffy might at the time, especially since she found the shrine in a dank cavern with human skulls piled in the corner, but still.

  He had a crush.  He crushed on her the way others crush on their idles.  All the pictures of Buffy were clothed.  He couldn't walk up to her and ask for a picture, and she wouldn't give him the time of day, so he snagged some pictures.  Yes, a little creepy.  But he never used those pictures to taunt her, or stalk her.  He stalked her the good old fashioned way, and just followed her around.  But he didn't use it as an attack, or to try and get into her pants forcefully.  He tried to get into her pants by attempting a date.

Over all, my opinion is 'meh'.

May 22 2007 03:26 am   #17Eowyn315

Considering each and every one of us probably has mutiple pictures of James Marsters on our computers, and some of us even have pics of his head photoshopped onto naked men's bodies, I somehow fail to find his collection of photos 'creepy'.

Good point, TC... but does anyone has a James Marsters robot? (And if so, where can I get one???)

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 22 2007 03:35 am   #18Guest

In my opinion, I don't think it was creepy. If we judged Spike as a souled human being with all sorts of knowledge of right and wrong than it would be creepy. Spike was a soulless vampire who fell in love with his mortal enemy. Yea he stalked her and such but it was just an attempt to be close to something he'd never truly have; Buffy. While Spike did good and had good intentions, he had no real moral compass to make him think what he did was so wrong. Angel had a soul and stalked Buffy so there's no excuse. But all Spike had was a chip, the vaguest of a conscience, and the love for a woman to guide him. And when Spike got his soul, he didn't stalk Buffy like he had, he followed her like a puppy, but he didnt stalk like Angel. That's just my opinion.

May 22 2007 04:25 am   #19Scarlet Ibis

I'm not hung up on the "he didn't have a soul" thing, cause had he been human, I still woudn't have found it creepy.  Even though the show preached the opposite, the soul clearly had no bearing on whether or not a person or any being was "good" or not.  Keeping pics of your crush= meh in my book.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 22 2007 04:33 am   #20Spikez_tart

 I do remember in grammar school - That's the point Scarlet - when you're in grammar school you do goofy stuff like obsessing over somebody.  You're supposed to be past that stuff when you're say 126!  It's definitely creepy.  Especially the underwear sniffing.  Come on!  You know he stole more than that stupid blue sweater.

The sketches were definitely done by Angelus when he was stalking Buffy.  (Talk about creepy).  I think Angelus broke into her bedroom and drew her picture while she was asleep (she woke up and found the sketch on her pillow), which means he was there for at least 20 or 30 minutes.  I don't remember any scene where we see Spike getting those pictures (do I feel a Challenge coming on?) so he must have saved them!  Hmmm. 

As for the Bot, I think Warren programmed her to like sex.  She's always trying to hold Spike's hand. 

 

 

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
May 22 2007 04:43 am   #21Eowyn315

Especially the underwear sniffing.  Come on!  You know he stole more than that stupid blue sweater.

You know, Spike may have been bluffing his way out of being caught by Riley when he said it, but I think there was actually some truth to the "predator" thing. Or rather, it was a vampire thing. How many women on here have kept a sweater or t-shirt or something that smelled like your boyfriend/husband/ex to remind you of him? Or bought a bottle of his cologne so you'd always have something that smelled like him? Spike's advanced sense of smell means that he can smell Buffy on all her clothes - the, uh, "natural Buffy smell," not just cologne. Since she never left clothes at his crypt (the typical way we usually end up with that stuff), he just nicked it.

Plus, I think he has a panty fetish.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 22 2007 04:49 am   #22Scarlet Ibis

Hold up- grammar school, and high school, I'll admit it.  And, at 120+ whatever, Spike was *still* immature- we see many examples   And holding hands isn't a sex thing- it's a PDA thing, which proves the bot wasn't just about sex.  Oh- and that wasn't underwear- it was a shirt, and he nicked one of those pre made square thingies girls put in their hair- a little cutesy bandana thingy.  Nothing sexy about that. 

Stealing her undies in s6 was different- she knew about it, and didn't seem to care.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 22 2007 03:21 pm   #23Unbridled_Brunette

I'm not really understanding why some of you assume those drawings were made by Angelus. Just because Spike was never shown sketching, it doesn't mean he had no artistic talent. From what I can remember, Angel never had a pencil in his hand until he drew those pictures of Jenny and Buffy in season two. And, as far as we know, he only drew that one picture of Buffy in the first place. Even if he had drawn more, I seriously doubt Buffy (or Angelus) would have kept them for sentimental reasons so that Spike could steal them three years later. It just isn't logical.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
May 22 2007 08:11 pm   #24Eowyn315

Nah, Scarlet, they were panties. He did steal the blue sweater, and when Riley walks in (in Shadow) he's sniffing a pink shirt, but then as Riley's dragging him out of the room, he snags the underwear that's hanging out of the drawer. Unless you're thinking of a different scene, they definitely looked like panties to me...

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 23 2007 12:01 am   #25Scarlet Ibis

Okay, perhaps they were undies.  But when he thinks he's alone in the house, he isn't rifling through her underwear drawer- he's sniffing a shirt.  I think grabbing the panties was a last second thought only because they were there for the taking, easy to hide, and also because he couldn't finish sniffing the shirt.  Therefore, I don't think he was doing something perverted... Had Riley come in five minutes earlier, I bet he was sniffing her pillow.

And UB- I agree.  I believe Spike drew those pics.  He's an artist- light sketching shouldn't be hard for him.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 23 2007 05:01 am   #26Unbridled_Brunette

I found a screencap of Angelus' sketch from "Passion" and another couple of screencaps of Spike's drawings in "Crush." Note the difference? Spike's sketches of Buffy show her with her season 5 hairstyle.

The top two pics are Spike's shrine (See the panties on the lower right-hand corner? The little scamp!).  The last pic is Angelus' sketch from "Passion."

 

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Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
May 23 2007 06:13 am   #27Eowyn315

Okay, well, now I'm more curious how he got those photos of her in class... I mean, who took them? I can't really see Spike sneaking into UC Sunnydale with a camera and taking pictures of Buffy - and unless he has a really good camera (which I doubt) he'd probably have to be inside the room for those shots. But why would Buffy have pictures of herself in class that he could steal? Which makes them even creepier, and not necessarily because of Spike....

Also - "He's an artist- light sketching shouldn't be hard for him." Huh? He is? When have we ever seen him as an artist, or even seen the product of his artistry, other than the sketches of Buffy? I'm not saying he didn't draw the sketches - since UB does have a good point with the season 5 hair, though that's only really visible in the one picture. But I don't see where we're getting artist from, unless there's something I'm missing.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 23 2007 06:33 am   #28Scarlet Ibis

The class photo is clearly some kind of still from an ep- I don't know who did the set design for the shrine, but it shouldn't have been there (I also here there was a snafu with the records that were in Spike's crypt in "As You Were."  I heard there was some kind of... Broadway record or something?  I'm not sure, but it most certainly didn't belong with Spike's things).

And when I said artist, I meant in general, what with the poetry, and probably fiction stories (this is the impression that I get because of the way he presented the tale to Dawn about the little girl in the coal bin).  And being a writer myself, dabbling in drawing or painting isn't that hard for me- sure some days are better than others, but in my opinion, Spike is just generally good with the arts.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 23 2007 06:43 am   #29Eowyn315

Hmm... I could see Spike with Broadway records. He does quote The Music Man... I don't remember hearing that about As You Were, now I'm gonna have to check it out.

As for the artist thing - I thought you might be referring to the writing, and I can understand why one creative instinct might indicate another, but it doesn't necessarily. I think I'm a pretty decent writer, but I can't draw a decent likeness of a person even if I'm looking right at them. And I know artists who can't string a coherent sentence together. In fact, being good at one type of writing doesn't even necessarily lead to skill at other types of writing. I can write prose, but I suck at poetry. So Spike's being a poet, and being able to tell a good tale (which may or may not indicate being good at fiction writing) doesn't really convince me that he's a good artist. I did notice, though, that the quality of the sketches varies a lot, so maybe he's been getting better with practice.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 23 2007 06:44 am   #30Blood Faerie

I also draw, and that's how I started drawing was drawing pics of my characters from my stories and RPGs (which the kind I do I consider writing since you post like a paragraph or more for each response, hehe, its like round robin in my opinion). I liked having that visual and especially for characters that had a costume/suit... anyway, back on topic ... I don't see it as much of a stretch. Some people like my mom and my roomie and I and probably some of you, your "artisticness" doesn't stop at one skill - I sing, I write, I draw, I've played instruments, I've tried acting but we won't go into that bag of worms (descrimination isn't just in hollywood, heh), and I do crafts and such like knitting

So yeah, Spike doing many things that we might not even see on the show since it doesn't really show us all their "down time", is not a stretch for me. Heck, the others might have hobbies that we don't know about, too. *has funny image of Andrew knitting that won't go away now* gah

Unfortunately, we had big vampires in the next room, and I didn't think they'd wait while we had hot monkey sex. ~Cerulean Sins :: (Anita to Jean-Claude)“Is there anything your bloodline does that doesn’t involve getting naked?" ~Danse Macabre :: I’m dating three men, living with two more, and having occasional sex with two others. That’s seven men. I’m like a pornographic Snow White. I think seven is plenty. ~Danse Macabre
May 23 2007 07:03 am   #31Eowyn315

Funny you should mention knitting... Spike actually says it, in season 5: "And I should do what with my spare time? Sit at home knitting cunning sweater sets?" And then, later, when Buffy indicates that she doesn't want Riley around, Spike says he has a set of knitting needles he can borrow.

There's a knitting reference somewhere on Angel, too - Gunn gets left out and says something like, "And what am I supposed to do? Sit home and knit?" To which Angel replies, "I could use a sweater... something dark."

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
May 23 2007 07:06 am   #32Scarlet Ibis

True E, but as EAS states, it depends on the person.  At first, I thought my thing would be drawing and painting (which I'm decent at), but it turns out I'm better at writing.  I write poetry as well and song lyrics- I'm not tone deaf, but I'm no Whitney Houston (back in her glory days) either.  Spike/William just strikes me as a passionate artist. And I think he's a scorpio too, which has nothing to do with the topic, but I just wanted to say that again

(added) I think the knitting thing has to do with... uselessness?  Sitting at home knitting while the man goes off to battle or something, which applies to basically all those parts mentioned (except Buffy sends the men home to do battle).

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 23 2007 07:24 am   #33Blood Faerie

Well us Scorps are just full of awesomeness and talent *grins and dodges rotten tomatoes* I just figure some people such as me and the people I mentioned, just like being creative in general, though, if I had to pick one to follow, I consider myself a singer above all else (some of my readers probably agree, nyuck nyuck).

And omg, Spike knitting? heehee *goes to knit him a scarf and cap since that's all she can do so far* He should have knitted something utterly cutesie for Buffy when he was in his worst part of the crushing with the mannequin and stuff, yeah?

Spike: *holds up sweater* I knitted you a present

Buffy: Why does it say 'I heart Spike'?

Unfortunately, we had big vampires in the next room, and I didn't think they'd wait while we had hot monkey sex. ~Cerulean Sins :: (Anita to Jean-Claude)“Is there anything your bloodline does that doesn’t involve getting naked?" ~Danse Macabre :: I’m dating three men, living with two more, and having occasional sex with two others. That’s seven men. I’m like a pornographic Snow White. I think seven is plenty. ~Danse Macabre
May 25 2007 12:30 am   #34pfeifferpack

I always think of the reaction to April the robot that Warren made:


ANYA: Why would anyone do that if they could have a real live person?
WILLOW: Maybe he couldn't. Find a real person.
BUFFY: Oh, come on. The guy's just a big wedge of sleaze, don't make excuses for him.
WILLOW: I'm not, I'm just saying, people get lonely, and maybe having someone around, even someone you made up ... maybe it's easier.
TARA: But it's so weird. I mean, everyone wants a nice normal person to share with, but this guy, if he couldn't find that, I guess it's ... kinda sad.


I think that's how it makes me feel....sad.  Spike loved Buffy and never expected a shot in hell with her.  It wasn't creepy, it was sad.  The shrine and mannequin were just forrunners of the bot built from the same lonely heart of rejected love.


Kathleen

May 25 2007 04:30 am   #35Spikez_tart

Thanks for the excellent research UB - I always knew Spike was a panty sniffer.  As to the drawing - we do see Angel drawing on several occasions and we never see Spike doing any, BUT, when William was growing up learning to draw was a standard part of the curriculum, so maybe he did some drawing, too.  Interesting that most of the drawings show Buffy awake. 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
May 25 2007 07:34 pm   #36Unbridled_Brunette

No problem, Spikez_tart. I tend to be obsessive about these things.

Can you tell me the other times we saw Angel draw? My memory is rusty when it comes to AtS, and I don't remember him drawing except during "Passion" on BtVS.

... is it wrong that I find the panty stealing cute?

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
May 25 2007 09:45 pm   #37Scarlet Ibis

I only saw him draw Buffy and Joyce while they were sleeping- not sure if it was in the same ep.  Oh- and he drew Darla in AtS.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
May 25 2007 09:52 pm   #38SpikesKatMac

Angel also drew a picture of Nina in the episode where she was introduced...

A beautiful and ineffectual angel, beating in the void his luminous wings in vain - Matthew Arnold
May 25 2007 11:30 pm   #39Unbridled_Brunette

Ah, there it is. I didn't remember him drawing on AtS. I think the drawings of Buffy, Joyce, and Jenny occurred in the same episode, although I can't be sure. I need to go back and watch my season two DVDs. Thanks for the replies.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
May 26 2007 12:33 am   #40Guest

Yeah, he was sketching Darla during the beginning of that arc on AtS.....when they were starting to think he was crazy for insisting that he'd seen her.

May 28 2007 11:49 pm   #41ZoeGrace

The class photo in the shrine he could have gotten from a year book.  Lots of colleges have yearbooks also.  That looks like a class photo from season four.  So it could have been a "yearbook picture" and Spike just nicked a copy of the yearbook and took it out of that.

It's a plausible way of how he could have gotten a "classroom" photo.  Because it LOOKS like that photo is in Professor Walsh's class.  That happened in season four.  The Shrine was in season five.   Plenty of time to get a copy of a  yearbook and get any photos of Buffy out of it.

Jun 01 2007 08:49 am   #42Dead Man Walking

Well, in my college year book, there are lots of photos of random students during class time (myself included). So it's plausible that he just nicked a yearbook, but we would have to assume Buffy actually bought a yearbook, which brings in another set of irritating questions.

Jun 01 2007 12:52 pm   #43ZoeGrace

hahaha.  Yeah, but I'm just saying it's a possibility. Playing devil's advocate.  Or Spike's advocate.

Jun 01 2007 01:01 pm   #44Caro Mio

Oh! He could have stolen Willow's! She's definitely the type to always buy a yearbook.

What If I'm Not the Slayer? now updated with chapters 22 and 23.
Jun 01 2007 01:17 pm   #45ZoeGrace

hehehe true.

Jun 01 2007 01:45 pm   #46Scarlet Ibis

But knowing Willow, she'd miss it... He could've stolen it from any UC Sunnydale student.

He's resourceful like that

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jun 01 2007 10:59 pm   #47Madcowx

lol full of theories aren't you lol

to me flashbacks of william show to me that he would be an artist he just looks the type lol also im a writer [or at least try] but drawing is my passion n im not that bad at it  so i guess i agree that those go hand in hand but im not a scorpio but a capricorn sob lol

the shrine i think as freaky but showed to me how close he could be to her in his terms but not actually be with her the first time i saw it i was like ok wierd but watching back over it i think its wierd but sweet

angel-what can i say? i think his piccys were wierd i just don't like them at all for some reason

Madcow x [can't remamber if i've signed in yet lol]

Jun 01 2007 11:38 pm   #48Spikez_tart

UB - I am so not an Angel obsessor.  He does draw a demon once (maybe that stupid "THE BEAST" one in Season 4? and I seem to remember him drawing about three times.  Cordelia draws sometimes, too.

The drawings in the Buffy Shrine looked they were drawn by different people - the styles are very different.  The bottom (biggest) drawing you posted, looks like it was drawn by a rightie (look at the strokes along the shadow side of the nose - upper side in the drawing).  When I was in art school, some students tried to "cheat" on their drawings by having one of their buddies do a drawing for them.  The teacher caught them because one was right=handed and the other was left-handed.  Heh heh.

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jun 02 2007 02:20 am   #49Unbridled_Brunette

 

Thanks, Spikez_tart. I was a latecomer to AtS and I've only seen each ep once (twice for the Spike ones, of course). I didn't remember him drawing there.

As for the drawings on the shrine, I agree they look as if more than one person did them. I sketch in graphite and charcoal, and I paint in oils, so I noticed the differences as well. However, I think that the difference in style was actually supposed to express a progression in his abilities (maybe as a metaphor for the progression of his obsession?). The sketch on the far right of the shrine is clearly that of an amateur. The ones on the left side are more sophisticated, and the one displayed so prominently in the center is extremely well done. So, my own little theory is that Spike didn't start out an accomplished artist, but merely had a natural talent for basic drawing that he polished over time.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Jun 02 2007 03:07 am   #50Scarlet Ibis

So, in my opinion, perhaps the not so good ones looked as such because he was a progressing artist, *or* because he didn't have a visual aid.  If I have something to look at that's of difficulty to draw, particularly a face or certain cartoon, I need something to look at in order to get it right.  Maybe the crappy photos are before Spike started nicking pictures- he drew one to have something to look at it.  Then he might have said "Hang on," and realized that he had easy access to an abundance of Buffy photos at her home, which he had an invite to.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Jun 03 2007 07:18 am   #51Dead Man Walking

I agree with Scarlet. The really good, prominently feature one appears to be a copy of the photo above it, while I can't really see one that looks like the one on the right.