BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Was it denial?

Jul 15 2007 09:08 am   #1GoldenBuffy

This has always bothered me. When Xander's looking for Buffy when she's invisible and he comes to Spike's crypt. He knows the girl can't be seen and Spike is naked in his bed doing stuff. Xander had to know, please someone tell me he had to know but just chose to ignore it instead. And the same goes with teh kitchen scene when he comes upon them. Whyd idn't he suspect something was going on between the two of them?

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Jul 15 2007 01:54 pm   #2Spikez_tart

I think so.  In the bedroom scene, he may just think it's Spike being totally weird, and who wasn't used to that, but when he busts in on them in the kitchen, Spike is standing inches away from her and has his hand on Buffy's butt.  How could Xander possibly avoid seeing that?  Xander immediately starts abusing Spike for trying to mack on Buffy, as if Buffy would allow him to have his hand on her ass if she didn't want it there. 

(From Gone)

Spike and Buffy look over to see Xander standing in the doorway. Buffy quickly shoves Spike's hands off her, drops the spatula into the sink.

XANDER: Still trying to mack on Buffy? Wake up already. Never gonna happen! (Spike and Buffy glaring at him) Only a complete loser would ever hook up with you. (Buffy looking insulted) Well, unless she's a simpleton like Harmony, or a, or a nut sack like Drusilla-

Gee, after that, no wonder Buffy doesn't want to tell the folks.


 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jul 15 2007 02:11 pm   #3JoJoBird

Avoidance and ignorance thy home is the scoobies.

Jul 15 2007 05:01 pm   #4Immortal Beloved

Personally, I think that Xander is stupid enough to ignore anything that he doesn't want to accept as true, which is ironic considering that he makes a big deal about is "super power" being his ability to see things that others don't :-P  

However, Xander has a history of avoiding things that don't fit his idealized view of the world.  He avoids discussing his reservations about getting married with Anya until he just can't avoid it any longer and dumps her on their wedding day.  He avoids calling Willow on her abuse of magic eventhough he admits to the others that she has a problem until he just can't avoid it any longer when Willow tries to destroy the world.  He walks in on Spike copping a feel on Buffy and ignores the fact that Buffy only then gives Spike a half-hearted slap on the arm instead of punching him across the room as she normally would.  He catches Spike doing "pushups"...naked...in his bed...and, apparently, with his hips instead of his arms.  Who the hell does naked hip pushups in their bed?!?  Nobody, that's who.  That's called humping, not pushups.  Xander ignores the fact that he just caught Buffy and Spike in a compromising position earlier that day, and he ignores the facts that Spike's in love with Buffy and that Buffy is invisible, until Spike let's the cat out of the bag.  Xander doesn't think that 1 + 1 = 2 because he doesn't want to believe it; but, then again, Xander never was a very good student :-P  

Xander likes things to fit his ideal: He and Anya will be happy eventhough he's scared shitless; Willow will be fine eventhough she's a crackhead; Buffy can't be having sex with Spike because that would mean that Buffy really is attracted to the monsters that she slays, and Xander really never did stand a chance with her (Get over it, Xander).  Xander spends the entirety of Season Six in denial, ignoring what he sees, hoping that the bad will all go away on it's own.  He was blinded long before Caleb poked his eye out.

Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Jul 15 2007 05:33 pm   #5Spikez_tart

 Personally, I think that Xander is stupid enough to ignore anything

Exactly IB - I forgot about the scene where Spike and Xander are walking in the graveyard.  Spike is talking to himself and complaining that "she" turned him into her "sodding sex slave."  Xander acts like he didn't understand, and Spike deflects him.  At that point, Xander has known that Spike was in love with Buffy for at least six months.  Who in the world does he think Spike is talking about? 

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jul 15 2007 09:36 pm   #6Guest

It's not an invisible pushup; it's not humping. IB (with a little help from Spike, InvisiBuffy and Xander, Pharoah of DeNile) has invented a new exercise: humpups. Tell me that's not more fun than spinning and Tae Bo put together! And thanks, IB, for the giggle. I needed that :-)

Back to the original question: Was it denial? Well, let's just say that Xander's "Can I be blind too?" in Something Blue became a self-fulfilling prophecy. There is none so blind as he who just won't see.

scarlett2u *subjecting y'all to the singing Fury icon again*

Jul 15 2007 09:45 pm   #7Immortal Beloved

:lol: Humpups.  I like that.

Give me Spuffy, or give me death.
Jul 15 2007 10:14 pm   #8ZoeGrace

This is why I said in another thread (about how Riley could have maybe found out about Spike and Buffy before he came to town in AYW) that the only reason the scoobies didn't know was they didn't want to know.  It wasn't like they were all that stealthy about it.

In season seven, even the potentials see the sparks between them and they aren't that close to them.  In the graveyard scene where Buffy takes Spike's hand in "Potential" Someone goes: "Now that's hot."  Had it happened in front of the Scoobies, before the big reveal that she was sleeping with Spike, no one would have thought anything of it.  They wouldn't have known anything.  And yet this very small gesture, even the potentials pick up on.

The scoobies are willfully stupid.

Jul 15 2007 10:38 pm   #9GoldenBuffy

 (with a little help from Spike, InvisiBuffy and Xander, Pharoah of DeNile) has invented a new exercise: humpups.

ROFL that was... omg, lol. I love it! Yeah, I agree it just wanst Xander it was all of them. When they didn't want to see something they just became blind to it, just like with Buffy not wanting to be back, no one saw that but Spike. Bayb Caleb should have taken an eye from each schoobie?

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Jul 16 2007 01:34 am   #10Scarlet Ibis

Hmm... I'm thinking they should be "humpdowns," at least, from Spike's POV ;)

And Xander wasn't in denial or stupid- he was honestly oblivious.  Even though you could hear Buffy's moans, and see Spike's ear lobe move on its own, and Spike starts to slightly giggle, Xander was still blatantly oblivious.  Maybe all of those beers that he likes so much accumulated, and worked on his brain for most of the season, and seeing Spike on top of Anya on the table in the Magic Box, several seconds later realizing they were indeed having sex, snapped him out of it.  When Spike says "It was good enough for Buffy," it didn't take him more than two seconds to figure out what the hell he meant. 

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Jul 16 2007 02:03 am   #11GoldenBuffy

Poor boy, to go through life that oblivious to things around you. But I still can't believe he was that stupid, I mean come on. How? How? How? lol

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Jul 16 2007 02:49 am   #12scarlett2u

GB, my personal theories to Xander's pathological obliviousness are these:

1) Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. All those stories about crazy drunken Harrises? All true, sad to say.

or

2) Previously undiscovered harmful chemicals in Xander's fruit roll-ups. The boy's been eating them for years. Turns out fruity breath isn't the only side effect.

or

3) Some sort of trouble with the rods and cones in his eyes. Genetic, poor thing. All these years Xander thought that Willow's broken crayon was yellow--wrong, it was purple instead. And didn't Anya herself sing that his eyes were "beady"? Boy's got the wonky eyes. I rest my case.

scarlett2u

 

Jul 16 2007 04:28 am   #13GoldenBuffy

LMAO You know I think it's a mixture of all three. :D

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Jul 16 2007 08:25 am   #14Blood Faerie

Hey, this's the dummy that kept going all Anti-demon humping when he was dating a demon/ex-demon and was like the bitch boy of the demon world. AND would even do it in front of said demon girlfriend!

So, oblivious thy name is MAN --- just my humble opinion... lol

I mean come on... my sister was once eating over my dad and I watched her accidentally spit on his head, and he didn't even notice! Me and my mom heckle him right in front of him and he just watches the tv! I think it's VERY possible Xander's just your run of the mill oblivious MAN ... well in his case - BOY

Unfortunately, we had big vampires in the next room, and I didn't think they'd wait while we had hot monkey sex. ~Cerulean Sins :: (Anita to Jean-Claude)“Is there anything your bloodline does that doesn’t involve getting naked?" ~Danse Macabre :: I’m dating three men, living with two more, and having occasional sex with two others. That’s seven men. I’m like a pornographic Snow White. I think seven is plenty. ~Danse Macabre
Jul 19 2007 10:13 am   #15MadBrilliant

you know, when i started watching buffy, Xander was one of my favorite characters, but as the seasons prgressed, i got more and more pissed off at what a hippocrite he was. it's funny (in a sad way) how he was always "Don't date the demons, buffy, but don't mind if i do."  heaven forbid someone points that out to him, though.

Nothing makes a man so vain as being told they are a sinner.

Added to the sum, I'm BEAUTIFUL in all my insecurities & WEAKNESSES & PITIFULNESS??...

~ James Marsters
Jul 20 2007 03:04 am   #16Spikez_tart

 invented a new exercise: humpups.

ROFLMAO.

Let's see - your girlfriend stays out all night (repeatedly), never says where she's been or comes up with lame lies, comes home wearing the same clothes she was wearing yesterday doing the walk of shame and looking like a skank and you don't think that maybe she has a lover?  Even if they didn't figure out it was Spike, they should have figured out Buffy was up to someone. 

It isn't just Xander.  No one figures it out.  Buffy tells Tara, who is surprised.  Xander, Willow, Anya and even Dawn are oblivious.  When Anya and Spike are having their little chat before polishing the table, Spike is talking about Buffy without saying her name and Anya still doesn't realize it's Buffy. 

And, Buffy has acted this way before.  When Angel came back, she sees him without telling anyone.  When Riley's around, she dumps her friends to be with him.  When it's Spike, she stays out all night, has sex in public and sluts around.   Buffy plus secretive behavior equals Sex.

 

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jul 20 2007 08:51 am   #17GoldenBuffy

You know I never noticed that. And it's funny with her boy friends she acts like that but with Parker everyone knew. *strange* And out of all of them why wouldn't Anya put the piece togehter and figure it out? The writers on that show sucked monkey balls.

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Jul 20 2007 12:08 pm   #18SpikeHot

I think he really never thought that Buffy would go for Spike, especially after Interevention, and as a result it made him blind to anything Spuffy. It was really sweet when he was being sympathatic about Spike's love for Buffy in Normal Again -the scene where he was talking to Buffy in the kitchen- sadly though Buffy hits him with a pan, right when he was talking nicely about Spike. I guess it's forbidden for any character to be nice to Spike in season six.

Jul 20 2007 07:40 pm   #19Eowyn315

And, Buffy has acted this way before.  When Angel came back, she sees him without telling anyone.  When Riley's around, she dumps her friends to be with him.  When it's Spike, she stays out all night, has sex in public and sluts around.   Buffy plus secretive behavior equals Sex.

Oh, who are we kidding? Buffy was secretive about everything, lol.

I think part of the reason no one noticed in season 6 is because they were too wrapped up in their own problems to pay attention to anyone else's. Willow was all magic addicty, Xander and Anya were wrapped up with the wedding planning, and Dawn was too "boo hoo, nobody cares about me" (which, admittedly, was true) to care about anyone else. 

Also, I don't think they really talked to each other - which probably would've helped them put the clues together. For example, Willow and Dawn know that Buffy's been staying out all night but never see her with Spike. Xander catches her with Spike, but doesn't know about the rest of her behavior. If they'd put two and two together, they probably (maybe...) would've come up with four. 

I think Xander is probably the dumbest, because of the times he actually caught them behaving oddly and didn't put it together- but he's also the most willing to go straight to denial, because, like SpikeHot said, he really never thought Buffy would allow it to happen. So, it sorta makes sense - if they *have* to remain oblivious, this was the best set-up to do it.

I think Dawn and Willow probably could've guessed that Buffy was up to something because they lived with her, but not known what. (And since they hardly saw her with Spike, I don't think they'd put it together.) But Willow was too busy with her own issues to bother trying to figure out Buffy's secret, and Dawn was probably like, "Oh, gee. Buffy's keeping something from me. What else is new?" Although, little sister law pretty much dictates that she should've been nosier about it.

I'm actually not surprised that Anya didn't figure it out. Well, I actually thought she knew Spike was talking about Buffy in Entropy, so I'd have to watch it again if you think she didn't know. But before then, she rarely saw them together, and she probably wasn't paying much attention to Buffy's secretive behavior, so I don't think she would've had reason to be suspicious.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jul 20 2007 08:32 pm   #20Scarlet Ibis

Nah, Anya didn't know- when Spike outs them to Xander, she's just as shocked as he (Xander) is.  She's all like "Buffy?" and she looks confused.

Also, I think s6 was a time when most of Buffy's friends were trying to gloss over her behavior in general.  They really didn't know how to handle the "tra, la, la- I was in heaven and you bastards kidnapped me from there," so they just went with whatever.  That, and they had their own problems as well.

And... I don't think Buffy slutted herself around.  It was all with the same guy, so... no big ;)

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Jul 21 2007 04:38 am   #21Guest

It is a bit surprising that Dawn didn't put it together. Spike stops coming around at the *same time* Buffy starts keeping secrets? ANVIL.

Jul 22 2007 05:34 am   #22Eowyn315

Nah, I'm not surprised Dawn didn't get it. If I were Dawn, being fifteen and naive but not stupid, remembering the way Buffy treated Spike for most of season 5, and not knowing how their friendship had been developing since she came back, I'd probably assume that Buffy told him to stay away, or was a major bitch to him in some other way that kept him from hanging around. Especially considering Buffy's reaction when she found out Spike was in love with her, I don't think Dawn would expect her to start a relationship with Spike (even if she may have wanted her to). Dawn missed a lot of Buffy's nice behavior toward Spike at the end of season 5.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Jul 22 2007 05:41 am   #23scarlett2u

Some iconic goodness I came across featuring the aforementioned hump-ups:

http://community.livejournal.com/amaras_art/13002.html

Gotta love those icon makers :-)

Jul 22 2007 06:04 am   #24Guest

There is that, but if I were Dawn, I also wouldn't have let my sister keep me from my best friend and protector for months.

Jul 22 2007 04:38 pm   #25Eowyn315

True, but remember - Dawn was going through her "no one wants to spend time with me" phase. That was the whole point of OAFA. So, it's possible she lumped Spike in with everyone else as people that had abandoned her - you know,  "he loves my sister more than me, so he'll do what she tells him to instead of hanging out with me." 

Also, Dawn's way of handling the situation was *not* to confront anyone, or bring up her feelings with anyone. She made some passive-aggressive comments, stole things to get attention, and then (accidentally) locked everyone in the house. I think it's perfectly within character for her to be upset about Spike not coming around, and be pissed at Buffy for causing it, but not say anything about it because she's a passive-aggressive, sulky teenager.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.