Angel trots through them for Darla

Spike for "what she deserves"

Same trials?

(of course under pretence that their always diffrent/specific to the person in question)

I mean, i always assumed... then i got into a discussion with someone i know who said, therse no way its the "same" trials "you just want spike to be...*degrading comment*"  I thought the trials and what/who you saw changed with the person, and therefor it wasnt any leap at all to assume it was the same Trials due to basic similarities between the two. (of what we saw)

Hmm, I never thought about that... Kinda funny.

Okay, Spike looked a bit more worse for wear after his, so I think his were harder.  And it was such a shame that after Angel did all that work, he still couldn't get what he wanted- to save Darla. On the other hand, if he had, he never would have had his son.

Angel may not have fought for his soul, but I gotta give the guy props for risking his own hide for a woman that not only turned him into a monster, but tried doing so again while having a soul.

Yeah, you can doubt that he really loved buffy, but you can't doubt that he loved Darla in some fashion. Angel really did do everything possible to try to save her, and then help her through dying once they found she was terminal. That one so put us through the ringer, when Darla is finally accepting that she's mortal and wants Angel's help with it, only to have Lindsey and Dru barge in, and turn her. Making Angel watch. That's a serious OUCH.

CM

I always thought that Darla was Angel's real love.  His attraction to Buffy might have been the "similarities" between she and Darla....cute innocent looking blondes who could kick serious butt.  The big draw to his soul was that Buffy was "good" and therefore like a new improved Darla...something he hoped to have with Darla herself when she was human and souled again.  He just didn't get it that the soul does not automatically mean good.

As for the trials...they were different but had a similar theme IMHO.  Yup, Spike got the worst in his battles, he was a mess in more ways than one.

Kathleen

While both had their hart in the right place, it was Spike i believe that had the harder trails.

As it should have been, he is more of the warrior-type then Angel and he might have almost lost a dozen times but in the end he kept on fighting.

Angels set of Trials moved around didnt they? and what im basicly trying to say is. Spikes and Angels Trials were the one and the same? only Spike had to go to Africa this time around. Were there not 3 Trials each, and in the end you got granted a wish. The inner most wish thing for Spike could be put down to a "personal variable" suited to him or who says Angel didnt wish Darla well  (however futile) was not his inner most wish then. And Spike seeing a Deamon for the Trials could again be put down to  what Spike would accept (expectations/rumors). Your Trials are to your own standard of difficulty, surpassing what is too much for you exc. You see what you want/expect .

Anyways.. discuss.

"Angels set of Trials moved around didnt they? and what im basicly trying to say is. Spikes and Angels Trials were the one and the same? only Spike had to go to Africa this time around. Were there not 3 Trials each, and in the end you got granted a wish. The inner most wish thing for Spike could be put down to a "personal variable" suited to him or who says Angel didnt wish Darla well  (however futile) was not his inner most wish then. And Spike seeing a Deamon for the Trials could again be put down to  what Spike would accept (expectations/rumors). Your Trials are to your own standard of difficulty, surpassing what is too much for you exc. You see what you want/expect ."

I don't buy it.  Spike's trails seemed alot more ancient and powerful.  That demon was very powerful, he controlled the trials with i think magic and was also very easily able to give Spike his soul while Willow and others used the orb of thesula.   And the trails themselves were quite different, Spike was pushed to the limit, a warrior as formidable as him.  Angel who i don't consider a better warrior then Spike seemed to have easier trails and they weren't even able to grant his request.  While with Spike, that demon was able to see what Spike would have to do to grant his wish and seemingly reading his mind for his true desire.

See thats the thing, i think they totally depend on the person and the persons limits. How far their willing to push.

I think Angels trials, since that was the first in two occasions we have seen such a thing in the jossverse, was an error on the writer teams part. I believe if they even thought theyd take Spike there, then Angels trials would have been more reflective to that. Besides winning your soul .. Spikes trials reflected more as a preparation for a possible ensoulment? strikes me as they wanted to put it on a little bit extra on Spike anyway, for some PTB sadist reason.

Angel and Spike are vastly diffrent, disregarding the authors possible failure to relay Angels trials as very tormenting, its still possible that what Angel went through reflected him in his essance. Spikes just seemd to remind me so much of him and buffy together. So in a way fitting to what he really wished  "what she deserves" his Soul.

From Wiki:  For the first trial, Angel (aka "the challenger") will be unarmed against an armed opponent whom he must kill. (/Spike and the firehand guy)

 A gibbous moon rides high, and its light reveals the long corridor before him. To Angel's (and Darla's) consternation, the walls and floors are completely covered with crosses of all types and sizes, some huge and wooden, some inlaid in gold and silver, some carved and embossed in relief into the stone blocks themselves. (/Spike and the Scarab Beetles)

many dozens of horizontal, spring-loaded stakes—materializes before his eyes. Angel learns that the third trial requires his life in exchange for Darla's. Valet rests his fingertips on Darla's head, however, he discovers that she has already been restored to life by supernatural means and that he is, therefore, unable to grant the boon Angel has won. When Angel protests that Darla has earned a second chance, the Valet replies, "She's living her second chance." (/ I see this as a PTB thing, as with willow failing with Tara.. Darla was not meant to be saved cose they needed their Connor and bla bla. Again possible plot failure and author mess-up)

And shameful i cant remeber what else spike went through. But i dont see their trials as all that diffrent. And imnot sure how Spikes was more difficult either. As i said it all depends on whats difficult to whom. As we know when it comes down to it Spikes not all that botherd with crosses, and i dont see Angel having issues with a bit of fire fisticuffs.

Oh hell im just rambling now. Hope my point went across.. to me they seemd like the same "set" of trials as in Get Ure Wish Granted or Die Trying Inc.

This makes me hate Angel a bit more.. now how come when Darlas dying you can find a way to save her, but when your soul has attachment issues you cant find a way to anchor your soul? Speaks VOLUMES for Spike. And yes I too always feelt Darla was his love and Buffy was the untouched version.