So, this has come up in a fair number of fics.  Do you think Spike has any money from his life?  Either he disappeared, was presumed dead, and it went to some distant relative, or he kept up being William long enough to stash some away legally or just hoarded somewhere.

In the show, there's nothing to support that he has money of his own.  He plays poker, readily takes Giles and Buffy's cash for help, and in season 4 was mugging people.  Vampires as a rule probably took whatever they needed, or the money they needed, for things that they couldn't steal (like boat fare, maybe).

Angel, it's worth mentioning, always seems to be having money problems.  Cordelia even calls him Mr-200-years without-a-pension-plan.  Yet, he still manages to have that spiffy apartment, a mansion (didn't look that run down), pays for the rent of the office/apartment in LA, and gets the hotel (though to be fair, he did have the bag of money from the hotel for that).  He can't be completely penniless.

In Fool for Love, Spike says he's through playing by society's rules, so it's possible that he leaves everything behind without a thought.  Of course, he might also get a kick out of keeping any money he has, but not using it, because it's not very vampire-y.  So, what do you think about Spike and money?

There is nothing in canon to support the idea that the vampires had any money other than what they took from their victims.  Considering the number of victims, and Darla's taste in furnishings and clothes, as well as Angel's taste for comfort, I think we can assume they took quite a bit.

In canon, Spike seems to be always poor - especially after he gets chipped, so again, nothing to indicate he kept anything from his human life.

In fanon - he is often depicted as having money. Either left over from his former life (and invested), or just accumulated through the years.  It makes sense that a vampire could accumulate a good deal of wealth if he/she lived long enough, although BtVS and AtS never really went into that.  They do take what they want, but that doesn't mean they don't have a bit put aside for a rainy (sunny?) day. :)

I imagine Dracula built up a hello of a lot of wealth. He's the type that would even gloat about it, since he struts around like royalty.

When you like Spike, and know that he's smart, you want to think that he took efforts to liquidate what he'd had as William, if for no other reason that he'd be selfish enough to keep it from anyone else once his mother died. I know if I was a vampire, everything that's mine would still be mine, mine, mine.

In fanfic, do what you like.

CM

Spike may or may not have money from his life as William.  Certainly when he saw his mother, she hadn't heard anything about him having been killed.  So he could have maintained the fiction.  After 100 years, whatever he had should have been substantial.  I don't think he was rich as William, he had something, some connection, that allowed him to be invited to society, but not enough to really be accepted.  That's why Cecily uses the phrase "you're beneath me."  She means that socially, his status and wealth were not enough to make him a good match for her - the apparent darling of society.

However, there is some evidence that he has money in canon, despite appearing to work for it, or his run-in with the loan shark (who doesn't exactly want money, but siamese kittens).  Without any explanation, he acquires several oriental rugs and some furniture.  Also, he certainly had access to the whole treasure found with the gem of Amarra, even if he didn't seem very interested in it at the time. 

Without any explanation, he acquires several oriental rugs and some furniture.

He could've stolen those things, or nicked them from someone's trash. Or, he could've bought them after a lucky hand at poker - in other words, not a reliable source of money, which would explain why he appears to be poor in other episodes.

I think the fact that he scrounges for money on the show indicates that he didn't have much of it. I can understand stealing things for the fun of it, but why would chipped Spike show up on his enemies' doorstep begging for help, when he could easily have gone to the butcher's to buy blood? And why would he continue to help them out for cash, if he didn't need the money? He certainly wouldn't help them out of the evilness of his heart. 

As for the treasure with the gem of Amara... since he ran off to L.A. after the gem itself, maybe his minions (and Harmony, lol) looted the rest of the treasure while he was gone. Also, he was captured by the Initiative soon after that, so maybe he didn't have time to go back to get the treasure - and again, his minions might have taken it all by the time he got out.

I'd forgotten about the Amara treasure.  You think he would have grabbed some of that, but it's true that there's nothing to show that he did.  I wonder if he ever nicked anything valuable from any of his victims that he held on to (besides the coat, which was more of a trophy).  Though that seems to be more Angelus/Darla's thing.  They were always very well dressed in the flashbacks (especially Darla), where Spike wasn't so much.

Well, Angel gets cash from his business.  Spike... I think it's plausible he could have an account of some kind in England, but he's pretty broke here.  Either he takes what he wants, dumpster dives, gambles, gets it or steals from one of the scoobies, or asks Angel (and if Angel says no, he'll take it anyway)- season five that is.

I think Spike is dead (pardon the pun) broke.  If he had any money wouldn't he have taken care of Buffy instead of getting involved in that whole demon eggs business?

Either he disappeared, was presumed dead -  Which brings up an interesting related point.  Did William's mother know he was dead or not?  When Buffy comes back, he says he knows what it's like to claw your way out of your own coffin, but in Lies My Parents, etc., his mother is not surprised to see him alive, but upset that he's apparently disappeared for several days.  I suppose Angelus and the gang could have buried him, but vampires don't seem the type to put themselves out with a lot of actual work. 

So, if William was dead and buried, his money would have gone to someone else, but if the gang had kept his body around waiting for it to revive, what's the business about Buffy's hands? 

Um, that would be another example of the lack of continuity throughout the series, Tart.  BtVS and AtS are full of inconsistencies. Apparently there was no one whose job it was to keep track of stuff like that so that the writers didn't contradict themselves in later episodes.

It's a rite of passage that every vampire has to dig itself out of it's own grave. Drusilla would have made sure William was in the ground somewhere......and there are plenty of cemeteries in London.

He'd be presumed missing because no one that knew him knew where his body was. This one's easy. Without a confirmation with a body, his mother would never believe he was dead, and then William returned.....so he confirmed that he was just "missing".

CM

In one of his interviews, Marsters said something about his idea of Spike as someone who deosn't carry a wallet b/c he doesn't need to. He takes whatever he wants, by stealth or by violence, & he doesn't identify himself to authorities & officials. It's part of the freedom Spike cherished after being William, a good man weighed down by rules & lack of confidence. He always said that Dru set him free.

I don't think he had money b/c he never troubled to have any. Also, when Buffy was struggling in Season 6, he would've given her money if he had had any that was legitimately his, & he would've tried to give Buffy money & would have given Dawn money no matter where it came from.

Ikepear

No, Spike wasn't presumed dead, at least by Anne, who would've been the one I assumed to have been able to put in a missing person's report, etc.  I don't see that as a continuity error.  Also, Drusilla would've taken great care to bury him somewhere- and not necessarily a cemetery.  A cemetery is dark and full of nasties.  She probably put him somewhere pleasant, underneath the stars, with stolen coffin from somewhere, anxiously awaiting for him to arise.  She was very motherly in that sense.  In fact, that's exactly what she tells William's mother- "I'm the mother who birthed your son," or something like that.

And I think Spike so traded in his car during the summer Buffy was dead, and used it to benefit Dawn in some way or another.

So, if William was dead and buried, his money would have gone to someone else, but if the gang had kept his body around waiting for it to revive, what's the business about Buffy's hands? 

Well, if he was dead, wouldn't his mother have kept his money? Since he didn't have any children, and presumably no siblings. So, when he turned and then staked his mother, he'd probably have been able to get his money back. But it doesn't seem like he has any savings anyway.

And others have said this, but I don't think it's a stretch to think that Drusilla buried William somewhere herself and waited for him to rise. She's just crazy enough to care about stuff like that. Remember how fussy she was about Darla's rising? The whole bit about the stars and putting her in the flower box or whatever. Angel even says, "Of course. Dru would want the ritual." I figure she'd want the ritual for Spike, too.

And in other vampire/immortal fandoms, they can easily deal in "antiques" and such... or even artifacts if they're really old... by just keeping things long enough to later sell them for loads of money as antiques - the way we might keep collector's items, I'm sure. :)

I'm not sure if I've ever seen that explored in fic, or at least just not in the ones I've read (that I remember) - because I've obviously not read ALL the fics in the fandom, lol. I didn't ever see Spike carting around family heirlooms in the show, though, so don't think he did that for quick money unless he had them stashed somewhere back in a family vault back in England.

Angel had a TON of old weapons and antiques in his LA apartment. He kept himself up once he decided to go to Sunnydale, so he knew how to get cash. You also rack up a lot of favors when you're really old.

CM

Hmm.  Do we even see the Desoto after Lover's Walk?  He comes back in season 4, but it never shows how, I don't think.  Then he just walks around Sunnydale until he gets the motorcycle from the demon bikers.

He has a car in Crush (when he and Buffy go on the stakeout), which may or may not be the Desoto. It sorta looks like it, but it's hard to tell in the dark. If it is the Desoto, the black stuff has been cleaned off the windows.

He probably did that because he 1) didn't have to drive cross country during the day anymore, and 2) so Buffy wouldn't bitch about it!

I don't think he carried much money around. He took what he needed.

As for giving money to Buffy in season six... I don't think that would have ever been possible the way Buffy was treating him, even pre-kissing. Not that he would not have tried, she just would not have accepted. She would have probably considered it blood money.

S'not blood money if you nick it...Or gambled for it :D

Spike knew Buffy, and her pride. Even as hard up as she was for money she would never have taken it from Spike, even if he was able to prove that it was from his human days. Remember he told her that he'd always been bad, so she would have thought he got his money trhough ill means, and still wouldn't take it.

For me, I do think Spike had money saved from human times. He just never used it, beacuse he was a vamp, they did what they had to do to live even steal from the living. Dracula was different, he's a dram queen and needs his castle, lol.

As far as Spike running to Buffy for help once he was chipped. Who knows, maybe the proof, papers, whatever that he needed for routing numbers, etc. to his account was stole by the government, and without quick access to get a car, or whatever he was only left the option of Buffy. For me it makes sense, lol.

Even after moving into the cyrpt, he was still his own vamp, and wanted to contiune to make it in the world, so stealing, hustling, etc., makes more sense than using his money.

I think with Angel, Darla had him place their money in a bank or something for rainy days. But with the adding of his soul, he feels torn between using the funds when he truly needs them since they were taken from their meals. But he does us it when he gets in a pinch, as well as what he makes from the agency and then from WR&H.

But since Joss left it up in the air I guess we all can decide and believe what we want, and write as well. *smiles*

 Even as hard up as she was for money she would never have taken it from Spike  Which brings us back to demon eggs - it seems clear that he gets involved in that deal right after their discussion in the Double Meat when he tries to get her to leave.  So, he must think that she's desperate enough to take money from him (and who wouldn't to get away from the Double Meat) or be anticipating getting it to her anonymously and thru some more acceptable source. 

As you say GB - Joss left it up to us.  The best solution of all.

Yeah, but even if Spike was trying to make the money on the side to give to her on teh down low, who would he be able to give it to other than Dawn? Buffy wouldn't trust where her sister got the money from, since she had sticky fingers. Granted, Dawn never would hold up a store or anything, lol. Can you see her robbing a bank? ROFL

But that would leave Clem. I'm on the fence as to if Buffy would accept money from him. But that would draw more questions than answers, since she'd want to know where he got the money from, why was he giving it to her, and if he told her, how he found out that she needed the cash.

And besides Anya and maybe Tara, there's no one left for Spike to turn too to give Buffy the money.

Darn Joss, lol. It's let up to us!

Well, Spike knew the ends and outs of the house pretty well.  If there was something that needed fixing, he could get it done.  If Dawn needed something for school, he could get it done.  And if there was a bill that needed to be paid, well, he could give the money to Willow, and still get it done.  Willow would allow him to help, and not tell Buffy for him, cause she was cool with Spike like that :D

Oo, I like that, she was cool with Spike. Well, then, I guess he could have gotten that money to Buffy. ;)

quote// I suppose Angelus and the gang could have buried him, but vampires don't seem the type to put themselves out with a lot of actual work. 

So, if William was dead and buried, his money would have gone to someone else, but if the gang had kept his body around waiting for it to revive, what's the business about Buffy's hands? //quote

quote// Um, that would be another example of the lack of continuity throughout the series, Tart.  BtVS and AtS are full of inconsistencies. Apparently there was no one whose job it was to keep track of stuff like that so that the writers didn't contradict themselves in later episodes //quote

Did dru not bury her grandmum? erm i mean daughtergrandmother :D   and Spike buried his spawn in s7 aswell, doesnt this atleast speak for the aurelian vampires traditions? Darlas second death strikes me as more haphazard and therefor not proper burial in every sense of the word, Dru did what she could in the time she had. Now Spike who Dru knew would become very special to her indeed might have insisted on a more proper burial for her pet, proper introduction to his new unlife *insert appropriate dru insanity*

It seems like a lot of the vamps who arise in buffy, have been vamped with no greater agenda for them. Whilst when Spike was turned and when he was vamping in s7, burying them yourself seemd appropriate? knowing where they are and keeping them 'safe' so to speak.

Speaking of house repairs, etc......why didn't Willow use her fabulous new super duper magic powers to conjur up some new copper piping????  Or fix the old????  

I think Spike, Angel and all did have reserves (don't know how much) and places like W&H existed for finances in the demon world.  I don't think he cared for money per se.  He liked to steal or cajole money from the scoobies for sport (and to give an excuse for helping out at first).  I don't think it was from need.  I think he was far too smart to not have some of the Amara loot stashed somewhere too.  The demon eggs were a set up but yeah, the money was for Buffy.  He can't have thought they were dangerous though to have kept them IN HIS BEDROOM WHERE BUFFY OFTEN JUST DROPPED BY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  Nope...a set up or the eggs weren't what Riley said they were and weren't dangerous.

Kathleen

If Angel did have reserves, they must have been all used up by the time he got his own show, because there are several episodes in different seasons where they are short on cash. Why bother charging people for saving their lives in the first place, if Angel has a savings account or something he can tap into?

And I don't really buy that Spike didn't need money from the Scoobies. "To give an excuse for helping out at first"? Why would he WANT to help out? He hates them, they're his enemies, and they had him chained up in a bathtub! Even after they let him out, they still treated him like crap. He didn't start wanting to help until later on (mostly because of Buffy). I think the ONLY reason he helped at first was because of the money. If he didn't need their help, why would he even have gone to them in the first place? He went because he was starving - which he wouldn't have been if he had the money to buy blood.

I also don't think he had the Amara loot. If he did, again, why go to the Scoobies for help? And why bother with the demon eggs nonsense if he already had money from the Amara stash that he could use to help Buffy?

Yeah, he needed there money.  But I think by the time s5 rolled around (and after realizing he was in love with Buffy), he asked for it for the annoying factor.  In "Checkpoint," when Buffy tells him she needs his help, his response (with a grin) is "Yeah?  And I need your cash."  I don't think he needed it then- he pretty much worked out his gambling and scaring people into giving him money routine by then, and did it just to add to his image of Big Bad, or former, as it was.

Yeah, eventually, he did it to be annoying. But by that point, he was in love with Buffy and tolerating the rest of the Scoobies, so it's not unusual that he would help them out for reasons other than cash. 

But the point is that, if he had access to money, he would've had it in season 4, when he was begging. Since that all happens after HLoD, I think it's safe to say that he didn't keep anything from the Amara loot, or he wouldn't have needed to rely on the Scoobies. And I think we can say that he didn't have access to his human inheritance or have money saved up, for the same reason. You don't beg for money from your mortal enemies unless you have to.

Getting access to your money when you're immortal is a tricky thing over the years - you have to keep moving it around, let it sit for a long, long time, show up as your own descendant at the appropriate time, get the money, and move it all over again.

It's "possible" that Angel or Spike had funds that they couldn't access either here or in Europe until further time had passed - it had been too recent that they showed up to claim the "dead relative's money". Spike could have left and gone anywhere before he cared for Buffy, etc., 

so it almost seems like he's *stuck* in town, and can't get to greener pastures. Between 4 and 5, he really had no reason to stay in Sunnydale, but he did. It was odd, since the only real reason is because he stayed on the show...

CM

That's very scary, Verity.  lol.  And, you're absolutely right that in the US the state governments grab that money any chance they get.

Did dru not bury her grandmum? erm i mean daughtergrandmother    and Spike buried his spawn in s7 aswell - right you are JoJo.  It must be an Aurelian thing since vampires don't always get buried.  There are a couple of occasions when Buffy goes to a funeral home and dusts vamps in their coffins or after they jump up - they haven't been buried yet. 

Getting access to your money when you're immortal is a tricky thing over the years - you have to keep moving it around, let it sit for a long, long time, show up as your own descendant at the appropriate time, get the money, and move it all over again.

I never thought that was the case. Firms like Wolfram & Hart exist to provide exactly those services to demonic/immortal clients, maintaining accounts so that the clients don't have trouble accessing their money, and without asking questions when an account stays around for 200 years without changing names. I think the reason Angel and Spike don't have any money is because they didn't invest any.

That's if you go through those sources, though. If you just play the human system, my example would still stand.

Yep, money is claimed by the gov't if it's abandoned. There has to be some activity in an account each year, or the bank closes it nowadays.

CM

Just reading fic that included the scene where Spike gives Drusilla a diamond necklace for valentine's day (Angelus gives her a warm human heart).  Obviously, it was something he could acquire relatively easily (with some planning no doubt) since he was still in the wheelchair.  Implies he either had money or could steal valuables fairly easily.

 Firms like Wolfram & Hart exist to provide exactly those services  - I bet W&H charges plenty for that service - that could explain where all their money went.

Guest - who knows if Spike was really still stuck in that wheelchair?  Besides, it would be undignified for a vampire to pay cash if he could swipe it. 

I sincerely doubt that Spike would've paid money for the necklace - if he couldn't steal it himself, because of the wheelchair, he could always have gotten a minion to steal it for him.

Certainly he could have stolen it, or killed for the necklace, but the point is, he could have then SOLD it if what he really wanted was money.