Hey! Does anyone know if Joss ever mentioned anything about the note Spike found on the pillow in Touched, when he walk up and Buffy wasn't there? 

When I watched the episode it was like a scene was cut, and I guessed I had a faulty copy, but I checked the transcripts and nothing was mentioned there either...

It's not a "must/need to know the answer" question, I was just curious :-P

XXX

No, which kinda made me upset.  Though I imagine it went a little something like this:

Hey,

Well, you know how I'm not good with the whole "words" thing, but I just wanted to let you know I'm taking your advice, and being productive gal.  I'm officially taking my power back.  And...thanks for last night.

See you at home?

Maybe not as long, cause honestly, the letter looked kinda blank to me, but maybe she used a pencil...Anyway, I'm thinking she didn't sign it, cause then she'd have to have a closing of some kind, and I don't see her doing that--leaving a "hugs," and definitely not a "love," so having it open ended, and leaving the last bit a question makes sense to me.  Also the whole "honey, you're home" we get from Spike later would kinda tie in, and still leave him wondering about the "were you there with me?" in that sense.

And clearly, I've thought too much about this...

No, I think you've got it right on the money, Scarlet.  I really do wish they had talked about it at some point, either shown the note from Spike's POV, or shown Buffy writing it, or, what I would have liked to have seen happen, when Spike is down there in the basement punching the "Angel" bag after having watched Buffy kiss Spike, it would have been nice if the scene had opened with Spike sitting on the cot, re-reading the note, and then we would have seen what she wrote.  I think that would have made Buffy's betrayal (at least that's how I always saw it) by kissing Angel even worse, but would have made her choosing Spike as her champion even better.

Thank you, I have been thinking about that a lot. It's good to know that I hadn't missed out on something, but it makes me even more pissed off at the writers :-P

Scarlet, I hadn't thought about the 'no-closing' thingy,  but I thought the content must have been along those lines. 

And Spikes you're so right! No matter how Buffy explained it to Spike, it was still a betrayal as far as I'm concerned!

I think it's one of those things where you can get the general idea of what it said from the context, so there's no need for the writers to spell it out. That way, it says whatever you want it to say.

That seemed to be a theme of Buffy/Spike in season 7, a lot of fade outs and missing scenes. I'm sure it pisses some people off, because they see it as the writers copping out so they don't have to show actual Spuffy, but on the other hand, if they spelled it all out, that's all we would have. And if you didn't like it, you'd be stuck with it. But with plenty of places to fill in the blanks, you can make it your own, think whatever you want to think happened.

Huh! I never thought about it that way! Thank you for the fresh perspective! :-)

Don't you think  the entire Buffy Kissing Angel was  done as a give-out for the shippers - either for the Angel or Spike  fiction writers, that scene left the future for writers with plenty to work from.   What other possible reason is there to justify the kissing from that scene?  It of course is a plot device to suggest that Spike might ultimately fall victim and be manipulated by The First into betrayal of Buffy - It also gives greater viewer response to any sympathy for Spike over his tragic love of Buffy.  I really do think that the writers just used the scene with Buffy and Angel to pay tribute to the earlier parts of series and to all the trauma that was the Buffy-Angel-Angelus story arc.  The same can be said for the Spike dream mention of "drowing in shoes" (huge paraphrase) just something for all the viewers to speculate about with the Shanshu prophecy.

there actually is a very small note that has been shown in much of the spuffy graphics - what it orginates from I have no idea -

I think Angel's entire appearance is meant for closure of the Buffy/Angel relationship. She kisses him because every time she sees him, she regresses to 17 year old Buffy again. But now that she's older and has come to terms with a lot of her past mistakes, she's not swept back into the whole Angel melodrama after those first few minutes. The old Buffy couldn't have sent him away. She does leave him an opening, because she'll never be able to totally let go of her first love, but she's not fooling herself about the chances.

The same can be said for the Spike dream mention of "drowing in shoes" (huge paraphrase) just something for all the viewers to speculate about with the Shanshu prophecy.

The actual line was "I'm drowning in footwear." No idea what that's supposed to do with the Shanshu prophesy. It's just one of those funny half-dreaming lines, like Willow's "Don't warn the tadpoles."

The actual line was "I'm drowning in footwear." No idea what that's supposed to do with the Shanshu prophesy. It's just one of those funny half-dreaming lines, like Willow's "Don't warn the tadpoles."

LOL...Also, anyone shacking up with (or dreaming about shacking up with) Buffy is quite possibly in danger of 'drowning in footwear'!

Thing is, Buffy didn't kiss Angel when she saw him when she was with Riley, so I don't know why she'd have to automatically kiss him now. I doubt they kissed when she she saw him after her resurrection, either, and they talked, but didn't kiss when he came after Joyce's funeral. But they have to have a full-on lip lock because he's there now?! I also see it as a betrayal. If she and Spike hadn't gotten to the intimacy (emotional) of Touched.......but they *did*, and then she does this. I agreed with the First calling her a bitch, and I wouldn't have blamed Spike if he had walked right then - not betray Buffy in return, but just left. I think in reverse, Buffy definitely would have left *him* if she'd seen a scene like that.

With what Angel had just gone through on AtS, and everything Spike and Buffy just went through recently, that Bangel scene is just massively a step BACKWARDS for everybody and totally OOC for them at this point in their lives. It's bad writing, IMO, and just pandering to both ships to keep them happy enough they don't say f--- off. The Bangel group is not that big, Joss, so you really didn't have to suck up so much! /rant

I loved Spike's dream of drowning in footwear. Laugh out loud funny.

and they talked, but didn't kiss when he came after Joyce's funeral.

Actually, they did. She warns him that she's needy, and he says he can take it, so she kisses him (and, as it turns out, he can't take it). She didn't kiss him when she was with Riley because when she saw him, she was pissed as hell about Faith.

 think in reverse, Buffy definitely would have left *him* if she'd seen a scene like that.

Buffy certainly hadn't been happy when she saw him with Anya on that video tape. I wonder what her reaction would have been if she saw him kissing, say, Drusilla. I don't think she would have bowed out quite as gracefully as Spike did.

I always thought the 'drowing in footwear' might have been an unconscious nightmare from living with all those Slayers. With that many females in the house, they probably were stacking up a lot of shoes. The way they did it was just so random and funny though.

Took the words right out of my mouth, Eowyn! LOL

thanks for the clarification regarding the "drowing in footwear."   The discussion and speculation on the board I posted to was the play on words and contrast of The Shanshu - without shoes - later in Angel Season 5 there is an episode that has angel without wearing of shoes.  Our board discussions could get pretty fanciful.

I think a great, big hug would've been appropriate, but a full on lip lock?  Especially after the night she spent with Spike...B.S.

Furthermore, why are the tons of Spuffies forced to watch that, just so Joss can please the Bangels (which I agree with Caro, was a gigantic step back for both of them), and getting nothing in return?  An "I love you" while someone is dying doesn't count.  Before that, we get a "does it have to mean anything?" and a big scene cut from the basement to the school.  Cop outs all around, and very disappointing.