I was reading an essay on Spuffy, and it talked about how a good deal of Spuffy fans are Spangel fans as well. Why do you think that is?

I don't know. Maybe because besides Buffy who would you think Spike might have a relationship with.  Sure Angel and Spike can't stand each other. But they both have a lot in common and they are family. So, some people can picture them getting together.

I am not a fan of anything besides Spuffy. But I do read Spike with other.  I read Spike with Angel, Tara, Xander,  and Fred mostly.  I would love to read a good Spike and Cordy one. I am just a Spike slut. LOL  Anyways, I will admit that out of those stories I read. It is Spangel that draws me in more. At first I thought it is just the writer. Which in part is true. But I could see it as being more real than the others. At least that is just my opinion.

I adore Spike and Tara  and I do enjoy reading stories that has them as a couple. But really   I like them better as great friends. Give me a good Spuffy story with Tara and Spike being good friends and I am positive that I will love it.

I have mixed feelings with the Spander stories. But like I said I am a Spike slut. Give me some Spike and I will be content for the most part.

Also, the thing with me is that I mostly like AU stories when it comes to Spike / other especially the Spander ones.  But I do read non AU stories with Spike / other too. 

I'm not sure why or even if the statement is correct, but I do read Spangel on occassion.  I'm a Spuffy girl and slash usually makes my physically ill to read (no offense to the writers or those who like to read it.), it's just not my thing. 

I usually only read a Spangel story if someone else raves about how good it was.  I can't speak for others, but I know what I like about it.  It's the dynamics.  Two vampires who loath each other, but deep down have an attraction.  Also, the rich history that the two have.  I'd much rather see Spike with Buffy, though.

I know there are Spuffy fans who like many other pairings slash or het.  Many others can't stand Angel at all.

 

LOL This is one Spuffy fan who doesn't like Spangel!

I honestly just don't buy it...they don't like each other... their personalities aren't compatable... and Angel is ugly as sin and a complete git to boot. But each to their own! lol

This is one Spuffy fan who doesn't like Spangel!   LOL!  Always_jbj.  I thought of you and our conversation awhile back about Angel, when I added that many others can't stand Angel at all.  I'm sure you are not the only one.  

I only like Spangel when I'm feeling particularly hateful towards Buffy.  Because you know that would be the best thing about Spangel--how it would drive her crazy knowing that A) she can't have Angel B)she can't have Spike and C) because they're together.  Makes me laugh just thinking about it.

LOL - tell us how you really feel, C. LOL
I think one reason you find so many Spuffy fans also into Spangel (and Spara, and Spander, and Spillow and...you get the picture) is that they are first and foremost Spike fans, and therefore they enjoy reading him with anybody who seems to be making him happy.

Exactly slaymesoftly. 

I am first a Spike fan. Spike/James is the reason why I became such a huge fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Which is why I can read pretty much any Spike / other stories. But I am a Spuffy fan too. Which is why I read more Spuffy than anything. And at the end of the day I would really want Spike and Buffy to have their happy ending. LOL

I agree with Slaymesoftly, I'm not only a Spike fan, I'm a Buffy fan as well. I enjoy reading Spike with other men like Angel, Xander and Giles. I also enjoy reading Buffy with other women like Faith and Willow. It's the idea of reading Buffy with another man or Spike with another woman that scares me.

Like it or not, Spike and Angel did have a relationship of sorts on Ats s5, dysfunctional as it was, and there was mention of one sexual, well "intimate" encounter.  I didn't even consider Spangel until that season, and they just worked.  Angel cared for Spike, even if he thought he was a prick, and vice versa.  They acted like some old, adorable married couple who argued all the time, but would still fight and/or kick someone or something's ass for one another.  It was great!  I could totally buy them being soulmates, and the lack of angst is beautiful, and a fantastic change of pace.  Angel is the only guy I could ever read Spike being with and take seriously.  Damn, how I wish they got a real season six....

I've tried to read other male pairings with Spike, just so I wouldn't be a hypocrit, and none worked.  If I can't believe it, I'm not immersed in the story, and then I just don't plain care.

I can't stand Spangel. Actually, I can't stand any slash fics at all. Maybe I'm just not modern enough, I dunno... On the other hand, I have nothing against Tillow, so it can be a matter of canon, as well. I'm just under the impression that slash authors are making every character gay. And not everyone is gay. Sorry, but that's how it is :) Really, no offence, it's just my opinion.

So a definite "no" for Spangel from me. But Spike & Angel frienship / co-working / banter / family stories? I really like them.

Well, I'll read Spike with just about any character except a few. I'll never read him with Gunn cause I just don't see that happening at all, or Andrew, or Anya (despite that one-night stand). I'll also never read those rare fics of Spike with Riley cause that relationship would never work on so many levels.

As for Spangel, it's the only male relationship I could actually see canon Spike being in. Now, whether that 'intimate' encounter was sexual, though it seems it might have been, I don't know. In TGIQ it is implied that all of the Fanged Four sleep with each other, when Angelus says, 'You never let us do that.', and then points to both himself and Spike. So that implies that Darla and Spike have sleep together, and certainly during that scene Drusilla and Darla were sleeping together in a threesome. So it doesn't really take much for me to think that Spike and Angel might have gone at it once or twice.

And despite the rivalry and hate they show each other, they have a lot of history and, almost heat, between them, and I think deep down they do have love for one another. Sexual or family. Spike is the only male I think that could challenge Angel in the way he needs to be challenge in a relationship, which is what I liked about Angel's relationship with Cordelia and Darla and what I didn't like in his relationship with Buffy. And I think, if given the chance to mature and get to know each other all over again, with all their difference and similaraties, Spike and Angel could have an interesting relationship.

I am of a pretty modern generation and I'm not fond of m/m slash fics either. I'm alright with the idea, because with Willow and Tara we saw it growing and it was intimate and the next level of being together for two people who cared about each other so much. I believe that guys do have relationships and feelings, but they simply are different from girls, obviously. Also, I understand there being deep feelings and a relationship that's complicated and messy and sometimes like an old married couple between two men, but that doesn't mean it has to be physical or sexual at all. Some of the relationships on TV I like the most are two guys who seem to be like a married couple, but neither of them is gay or feminine- it's that they fall into this pattern from just knowing each other and understanding each other that way.

But it was more to canon Spike and Angel than that--they'd get into heated arguments that would either cause them to fight (or hey, maybe even shag, which is another reason why Spangel is more than simply plausible).  The thing that sticks out the most in my mind is that when Spike was in the hospital, we see Angel who visits him--alone and not with the gang.  Or Fred...not saying that they didn't visit him, because I know that they did, but that it felt important and special that we see Angel do it, and that they have this incredibly strong connection with their pasts and the choices they've made and didn't make.  There's a lot of substance there, and I think that's why it's so easy to draw in a Spangel crowd.  I am a HUGE fan fic Spuffy, but a canon Spangel (although, I do enjoy well done fan fic Spangel as well).

they don't like each other

You know, I'm rewatching season 2, and it struck me just how happy Spike is to see Angelus in "Innocence." I'd never noticed before, but he's seriously giddy. And it's fascinating to watch his transformation to someone who dislikes Angelus - he goes from total joy to confusion and hurt, and then finally to anger and dislike. You really get the impression that this isn't someone he hated, this is someone he adored and is now feeling betrayed by. Despite the occasional tumultuousness of their relationship, they're obviously close. (And intimate, but just that once... ;))

With Dru (and Buffy) out of the picture, there's no one to fight over, and with them both on the souled side of the equation, I think it's pretty easy to see how their relationship could settle into the "old married couple."

Oh, I totally forgot about that ("Innocence" ).  Actually, his reaction in "School Hard" is also very telling.  When Spike goes in for that hug, it seems as if he realizes the soul is still there, and the disappointment in knowing that makes him furious.  He wants it to be different--he wants it to be Angelus (clearly not "insane by being trapped by Angel's prissy soul" Angelus, but the Angelus of yore).  This makes me wonder what would've happened if they'd had Spike (he's soulled by then, but I could've seen unsoulled Spike as well) come in s4 to take down Angelus as opposed to Faith.

I always noticed that. Spike was just as happy as Dru when Angelus first came back to the fold. The three acted happy to be around each other at first, even Angelus was laughing and joking with Spike (the playful kiss on the forehead comes to mind). It was only after he started to hate and resent him, maybe not only for taking Dru away but for ignoring and dismissing him?

He certainly acted happy to see Angel in School Hard, and Angel didn't see anything amiss with that, as if he expected Spike to greet him with a hug and be happy. He called him his 'Yoda' which can imply a certain amount of affection. In the season five episode of Angel even when they are in the sub he seems happy enough to see him, who he assumes is Angelus. In TGIQ they also seem to be fairly fond of one another.

I've got a theory...

In TGIQ, they were defending each other (to the Immortal and his minions).  They were all like "Hey, don't you know this is William the Bloody?" And "Those were Angelus' nuns--everyone knows it, and they repsect it!" and so forth.  I think Spike only grew resentful of Angelus in s2 cause he started to treat him like crap, and I think part of that reason, for Angelus treating him like crap, was that Spike was hurt.  He was already having enough time trying to reconcile the fact that he'd been experiencing all of these "feelings" because of Angel and Buffy, and soon as he gets back on the side of evil, Spike isn't even at top form.  He's badly hurt, and can't walk, and I think personally that Angelus cared.  His nerves are way too raw from the soul, and having more feelings, even if it's for someone who he did care about a hundred years ago, it's too new in that moment, so he rebuffs him (and treats him like crap) at every turn, and Spike doesn't understand why.

At least, that's my theory :P

I think that the way Spike sees love is a little influenced by that way his vampire family might have treated each other. Darla and Angelus loved each other, and yet they abandoned each other time and again. It might give some measure to the 'you always hurt the one you love comment' to Buffy besides that fact that they hurt each other.

This makes me wonder what would've happened if they'd had Spike (he's soulled by then, but I could've seen unsoulled Spike as well) come in s4 to take down Angelus as opposed to Faith.

*mumblecough* That might be one of the plot bunnies sitting in my "fic ideas" file.

the playful kiss on the forehead comes to mind

Anyone wondering where the idea of Spangel got started? I think this is it! lol

I'm still waiting for the kiss that Brian Lynch keeps joking about will happen in After the Fall, lol. (Though it probably won't.) And wouldn't the Bangel's reactions be priceless if it did.

I've got this scenrio in my head of Angel and Spike kissing and Buffy walking in on it.