BSV Forum - General - Off-Topic

Bad Boys?

Nov 24 2006 01:41 am   #1ZoeGrace

So after my fourth long ass tag post I thought..."hmmm maybe this should just be a forum topic" hehe.

Ok so boys and girls weigh in?  What do you look for? Girls do you want a bad boy? Why or why not?  Do "nice guys" never get laid?

I had an LJ rant once about "nice guys"  Some "nice guys" aren't actually really nice guys but they ACT nice as if women can't tell the difference and then seem to expect sex with a hot chick as a cookie for good behavior, as if nice guys are really really rare.

I posit that they are not.

I also think a "nice guy" and a "bad boy" can exist in the same package.   To me "bad boy" doesn't equal: "jobless, leather wearing, irresponsible motorcycle rider."  (not that all of those things are bad...nothign wrong with leather and motorcycles and sometimes jobs are hard to find.) I disagree with the assumption that women go for guys who treat them like trash and ignore nice guys.

I think instead many women want to be treated with respect but want a growly dominant male.  I'm not saying ALL women have this desire.  Many are dominant themselves and like either a man who can match them in that or a "yes dear" nice guy. 

But a lot of women want a dominant alpha male...which doesn't mean "asshole."  I don't think any guy who is a real asshole is a real "alpha male" because he's spending all his time posturing trying to GAIN conrol, he, like his cousin the abuser isn't actually IN control especially not of themselves.

My first husband was an asshole, I learned the lesson well and figured out how to find what I was really looking for.

"bad boys" can be "nice guys" they can be stable and loving but still growly and dominant and "in charge."  This truly isn't just a "romance novel" fantasy.  Unless I'm married to the only growly nice guy.

But it takes a woman knowing exactly what she's looking for and why.  It takes figuring out what your motivations and needs are and why.  If you have too many issues figuring out WHY you want a bad boy, good luck finding one who isn't really an abusive asshole.

Two cents guys?  Your experiences, views, whatever?

Nov 24 2006 02:46 am   #2ZoeGrace

lmao not TMI for me, but then i'm an 'anya' lol and have no trouble talking about my orgasms lmao! hehehe.  and marking is always lovely.  Sometimes I provoke, but then other times I do the docile/submissive thing. Both work at different times.

I've got this weird theory...that it's some kind of relational evolutionary thing.  Like I've noticed that women in true abusive relationships try to do everything to appease the guy...he only gets more abusive.  In a healthy relationship where power is being exchanged and these kind of games are being played, submissive behavior tends to bring out more growliness.  It's weird and seems completely counter intuitive.  Ok I'm totally going to freak people out now. heh.

Nov 24 2006 02:55 am   #3GoldenBuffy

 In a healthy relationship where power is being exchanged and these kind of games are being played, submissive behavior tends to bring out more growliness.  It's weird and seems completely counter intuitive. 

I think so too. Also I noticed with me. If I act like I really don't care, it makes the hubby a big old kitty looking to affection,lol. But who will also do anything I as for. And it's vis versa. But I'm more for pushing buttons 99.5% of the time.

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Nov 24 2006 03:01 am   #4GoldenBuffy

Well, a girl can always brake the bad boy. Just look at Spike, not saying he's all domesticated, but to a point he was with both Buffy and Dru. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, 'cause it's not.

Women, well some women like a little monster in their man, but they also want the hopeless romantic too. So the whole whiny bit, trying to control as the hubby calls it, is out way of molding guys to the way we want them. I guess that can be a bit of bad girl,lol.

But guys do molding too. They just do it in a different kind of way. And when both are done in a healthy relationship it pays of, and you have a mate who is willing to change not only for you but him/herself but stay who they truly are as well. (did that make sense. Sometimes I confuse myself).

But back to my first point,lol. One can still be WILD and housebroken. Hand cuffs, chains, paddles, can be fun. Who said borning can't have bondage fun. Ok, there goes the TMI again,lol. I'm channeling Anya.

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Nov 24 2006 08:25 am   #5sour

 

Yeah, sex is very important in a relationship if it is bad=no relationship left. 

Sorry for your first husband, the man was idot, though I kind of hope the git my ex is marrying will turn out to be Angel and she will come back, I know pathetic, it is probably fever talking/writing whatever.

And my very close friend is in the search for willow s1 type of girl, and he is like Riley not physically but in the character, he wants a girl who will submit, don't make fuss and you know "be the mother of their children", I know he hates that life he will be bored, and start cheating on his wife,  you know the usual stuff.

Life and relationships are funny my friends...

Nov 24 2006 11:52 am   #6Guest

I don't much care about a "type" as long as the guy will see me for me, and not try to change that. My ex-fiance was basically the right guy at the wrong time, in that we were both very young, and the practicalities just didn't work out. Emotionally, though, no one else has ever known me like that...don't know if they ever will. I felt completely safe to be me, with all my strengths and faults. I cherished it at the time, but now I know even better how precious it was, since my I don't trust my current BF in the same way.

Guess you could say my current is a "bad boy", though he's also still really a WIP. Isn't really my normal type, but he was a friend when I was on the rebound and needed one. Nearly 8 years later....

 

So, I guess I'll still be looking for the "perfect" combination, but who knows?

CM

Nov 24 2006 02:25 pm   #7Guest

Wow, that post didn't sound very nice....ignore me, it's that time of the month and I'm moody.

How about this? - A girl wants the good boy in front of her parents, and the bad boy in bed....

CM

 

Nov 25 2006 06:48 am   #8ZoeGrace

Ugh...GB I wouldn't want a man that ignores me. Ever.  If Tom ignored me I'd be out looking for another guy.  To me, what you just said about girls wanting some guy like that and taking them for granted if they were affectionate and paid them attention and then thinking they were king of the world if they ignored them...

To me that's a type of emotional abuse.  Guys who do crap like that.  It's not cute and it doesn't make me want or like them.  And yes some women take affection for granted, I don't get those women either.  Why would any woman take affection for granted? If she loved the guy?  I truly don't get most people.  I mean yes, I get this whole nicey-nice 24/7 never ever growly is "gag me" but why get involved with a guy like that if it's not what you're looking for? (not YOU you, I know you don't have nicey-nice)

Why is it SO hard for people to take mental stock figure out what they need physically and psychologically and sexually in a relationship and then be honest enough to know when they have it and when they don't?

I mean pretty early in a relationship you can tell a lot about a person.  You know if he's a 'yes dear' man or if he's growly or somewhere in between.  You SHOULD know if he's a good man or not.  If not, maybe stop dating and start working on honing your instincts for awhile.  (and yes, I knew my first husband was an abusive asshole from the beginning, I just kept pushing away the warning bells because I thought he had what I needed, he wasn't.  I learned the lesson and moved on.)

To me that's one of the silly ridiculous games (This whole 'ignore her' thing) most vanilla couples are out playing.  I don't mean to sound condescending, I'm not saying this weirdass little D/s thing I have going is the be all, end all of relationships only that I truly have a hard time understanding most "regular relationship" power dynamics.

I mean what is this "ignore her" shit?  I don't get that.  It offends me.  To me it's a silly game.  I play games all the time...but at least we both know the game that is being played and why.  We aren't playing with the other person's heart.

I don't understand why everybody plays these bizarre games and then arches a brow at ME.  What the hell?  So yeah...maybe I sound condescending but I'm deeply grateful I'm not in a "normal" relationship.

So yes, this post was totally TMI but I think most people knew by halfway down the page that this discussion was going to be pretty adult.  I also don't think most things about me are that deep dark of a secret for anyone who's been paying attention thus far.  It's not the tag, and if people can't handle frank discussions about relationship power dynamics...well...oh well.

Sorry if I sound insanely bitchy but I just got home off the road and it's 1am.

Nov 25 2006 08:54 am   #9ZoeGrace

that last post was me. sorry. (not like you couldn't tell from the psycho ranting and judgmentalism.)

Nov 25 2006 11:56 am   #10ZoeGrace

Those are very good points CM.  I guess I'm just really introspective.  For a 27 year old I'm pretty sure about who I am and what I'm about.  I know that I'll grow and change and in five years I'll have new things to discover, but I think for the time being I'm "caught up with myself" so to speak.

I'm not terribly "confident" just freakishly honest about it.  I have lots of insecurities especially about things I say and do, and yet I just refuse to compromise and be anything less than myself.  I figure some people in life will reject me for this...but the ones who I'm looking to create friendships with, will respond positively to it.

But you are right.  And I think we all think we know ourselves better than we do.  I'm of the opinion though that we don't really "find" ourselves so much as we create ourselves by the actions we choose and the lives we choose to lead.  I'm a different person than I was 5 years ago and that's due to my choices, not finding some hidden mystical key to unlock myself.

But maybe the "finding yourself" part is more about being honest and dropping the social masks most of us are conditioned to wear.  Sometimes you have to go through a lot of layers of crap to discover motivtions for many of your choices are externally focused (pressure from others and societal expectations) rather than interally focused.

I think to know yourself you have to be pretty self motivated.

Nov 25 2006 12:58 pm   #11Caro Mio

Exactly, the "finding" is really accepting, or figuring out your motivations.

I'm also very honest about who and what I am, always have been. I always had a yearning to know how things tick, and that included myself, so I've thought about my psychological standing and motivations since I was 9. The previous year had many significant events that affected me deeply, so I thought a lot about my reactions and where it put my life then. And just went from there. Probably why it only took me 2 months of therapy to straighten myself back out when I got really depressed my junior year - we didn't have to break through any denial.

I had a group of friends tell me at one time that i always appeared so together and on top of things....which seemed really weird to me at the time, incredulously so....though those same people also weren't the ones I confided heavily in, either. Perspectives are interesting, eh?

But, I'm wandering off. Zoe...yeah, your position is a rare one. You're way ahead of the curve.

What If I'm Not the Slayer? now updated with chapters 22 and 23.
Nov 25 2006 03:48 pm   #12Guest

 

I see your point CM, but when I am honest with a girl and say I don't want anything serious, and I only want to spend good time(I don't mean it only sexually, though sex is of course apart of the package), first she says she is OK with it and the just few weeks later she starts to make things serious you know like one day you woke up in your apartment and find out that one of your drawers is full with her stuff, or her getting jealous of every female around you, things like that...

Or if I want something serious with a girl, she says OK, and then when I do something that you would do in a real relationship(Like hating her exes or getting jealous), then she says I have no right.(though unlike the case 1 this one happened only once so maybe I shouldn't generalize this).

 So honesty usually doesn't save you if the other party is not honest.

And for the abuse part, for guys it is not usually physical cos guys are usually stronger (though one of my ex-girlfriends punched me once but she had a very good reason, and I had black eye for nearly 2 weeks), but girls tend to abuse you psychologically, you know with their cold now-hot now games or power tests or trying to control your life things. I mean if most of the things girls usually do, are done by a guy, people call them jerks, but girls have free-jail card.

But there can be no reason or explanation for physical abuse, if a guy does something like that it is only because he is a weak, psychotic, shameful asshole who has nothing to give a woman.

Nov 25 2006 03:50 pm   #13sour

I see forgetting to log on is infectious. The last command was mine.

Nov 26 2006 04:37 pm   #14ZoeGrace

hahaha msclawdia. My taste in actual men is exactly the same as my taste in fictional men.

Jan 29 2008 07:58 pm   #15dawnofme
I've never gone for the bad boy type.  I'm too practical for that.  So practical that I had a list that I checked off when I met a new guy and there was one side that if he was missing any of the requirements, he didn't get a second date. 

My high school sweat heart was a bit of a jerk.  The jock, Mr. Popular and other girls sighed when he walked by and he knew it.  He pretended to be humble, but the longer I knew him, the more I realized how fake he was.

I met my husband when I was nineteen and a sophomore at University.  He is six years older and we met in a night club.  I was able to determine on our first date that all the must haves on my list, he had.  On my "would be nice to have" list, he had everything there as well, except he had blond hair and was good looking (I had sworn off the good looking ones after going through a string of dumb, ego tripping jerks).  

We got engaged after knowing each other for two months and got married after six months.  We are still best friends, hot for each other, and have a blast together after sixteen years.  We have five kids, too.

I guess I have a thing for "alpha males".  But my husband is the type of guy that believes his actions should speak louder than his words.  He tried very hard to never be overbearing and he loves my spunk when I challenge him if he goes overboard.  He likes it when I get mad and will start silly fights just to get me going.  Of course, he makes me more angry when he just sits back and laughs at me. : )

I've never wanted a guy that I have to fix.  I couldn't do it and don't have the patience for it.  Men rarely change by nagging and sneakiness and they rarely appreciate a girl's attempts.  I do not nag my husband about anything, ever.   In the early years of our marriage, I would ask him once to fix something.  If he forgot, I would work around what was broke or try to fix it myself.  It used to bug him and he'd ask me to remind him.  I told him that wouldn't happen.  Once is asking; twice is nagging.  Now, if I asked him to do something around the house, it usually gets done that day.

We've never played games with each other.  I have always believed in being me and being open about what I want and what I don't like.  I've never once pretended to be disinterested in a guy to get him to like me.  I never ignore my husband and he never ignores me.  We have a rule that we never go to bed angry (unless that's the 'game' were playing that night LOL!).  We don't hold grudges and we decided before we got married to always remember that we both aren't perfect.

What did I look for in a guy?
A shortened list:
Can hold a job for more than six months (doesn't matter if it's a fast food job or anything else.)
Twisted sense of humor (Or he'd never be able to "get" me)
Can't hate or worship his mother
Must be polite to strangers and people serving him (if he treats strangers like dirt, image how he treats people he knows well)
Must like cats
Must be confident and decisive
Have his own vehicle
Pays bills on time
I must be physically attracted to him
My mother has to like him
The way a guy reacted to my "I don't tolerate abuse" speech.  (I basically warn a guy never to lay a hand on me in anger, or I would wait for him when he least expected it and beat him with a steel baseball bat).

And some from my wants list
Not too tall
Blue eyes
Large rough hands
Knows how to Surf
Can tolerate punk and alternative music


And yes, I kept this list (which is actually much longer) in my purse at all times and I would check things off when I found out if a guy I was dating had these qualities or not.  Yes I was practical, but it paid off in the end.  It was a rare thing for me to turn down an invitation for a date, but not all the guys got a second date.  I'm sure, after spending some time with me,  I wasn't many of the guys dream girl either.
Feb 03 2008 04:11 pm   #16Diabola
I'm closing this thread because it is one of the two being spammed. Feel free to start a new one to continue the discussion.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." - Albert Einstein

 Closed