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5/2 Real Me Discussion

Sep 04 2008 05:42 pm   #1sosa lola

Dawn brings up a point about the sufferance of having a slayer as a big sister. I guess having a slayer, very special, a hero, as a big sister can bring jealousy problems, not to mention, being a slayer's sister makes you a target for her enemies. Plus your family from mother and Scoobies idolize her and value her opinions, just because she's strong and saved the world a lot. :P

Since I'm a big sister and not a little sister, I can understand Buffy's side better. Buffy is the big sister, she has to be the responsible one, her mistakes are taken more seriously than her little sister, who is little, therefore gets lots of slack cutting. Now Buffy is a slayer, and she'll face danger more often than not, so she must be careful where to take Dawn and where to leave her. And sadly, Dawn getting kidnapped and coming face to face with demons is Buffy's fault no matter how innocent she is from it simply because Buffy is a slayer and she's danger magnet. ;)

I still don't get why Dawn must be babysat and she's 14. She's old enough to be a babysitter, as she said. As long as Xander is the babysitter, all is well in Dawn's world :D Who can blame her? But must he bring that annoying girlfriend of his who has money-addiction problems? :shake:

Dawn: *I* could so save the world if somebody handed me super powers... but I'd think of a cool name and wear a mask to protect my loved ones, which Buffy doesn't even.

Super Dawn! She has a point, though. If Buffy made a secret identity of her hero self maybe her family and friends would be safer? But then the Scoobies must come up with secret identities of their own… man, it's all a big headache, plus vampires can tell she's a slayer if she's in mask or not.

Aww, Buffy and Riley make a cute couple. Dawn ain't impressed, bet she's jealous. I think she dislikes all Buffy's boyfriends because they're "soooo into her", they think Buffy is special just like anyone else. I wonder why she has a crush on Xander, he's the biggest Buffy worshipper. Maybe she witnessed a few of his fights with Buffy and knew that while he admires Buffy's he's definitely not her lapdog and then HELLO crush. ;)

Notice how supportive Riley is in this episode, just wait until Buffy keeps blowing you off, and then Mr. Supportive will leave the building. Nice guys have limits, too.

Buffy's Watcher???? I guess Dawn doesn't interact that often with Giles, until Buffy learns she's The Key.

Dawn loves Willow and Tara, who wouldn't? They're awesome and nice and open-minded and they do spells together.  :P

You know, it pains me how happy Buffy is at this point –minus the Dawn annoyance- She's in college, got a nice boyfriend, got great friends, lives off her mom ( :D ), Giles is around to do the boring research stuff, she has a new mission… all is well in Buffy's life… now. :(

Okay, Tara's outsider feelings annoy me a little. Did Willow ask her to stay outside with Dawn? Or was Tara bored with the Scooby detective stuff? Because honestly, Tara was always included into the Scooby circle, her opinion was always valued. I'm glad Willow set things straight for Tara, because if Tara felt like an outsider, it's because she's the one who doesn't wanna mingle in fear her "demonness" would be discovered. It is not the Scoobies' fault. :tsk:

Still, Tara and Dawn are the cutest Scooby friendship. :happy:

BUFFY: I'll get Riley to help me patrol.

I feel a little sad because things will crumble after ep:4 :(

Poor Harmony with a gang. She gets no one's respect. :( Even Spike-with-his-chip-and-killing-of-their-kind makes fun of her, though they both remember that she feels good. Awww.

I've always wished we had Dawn's point of view on Spike, but then in Checkpoint and Blood Ties, it appears that Dawn isn't that impressed with him. He isn't cool, just their pathetic pet vampire. Her view on him would change a lot throughout this season. :)

Dawn's thoughts about Xander were so much fun. Didn't you know that Xander's so deep because he skipped college to work in construction? :D Not to mention that he treats everybody like an equal, doesn’t look down on anyone, even when he should. Enters Anya. Bwah!! Don't worry, Dawn, you're gonna get Anya injured. And Xander would still run to aid Anya and not you. *hugs Dawn* at least you got Big Sister Slayer Buffy to rescue you.

BUFFY: (putting on a jacket) No. No, it was common sense. But nobody expects even that much from Dawn, do they? No, she has to be protected and coddled from the big bad world, well you know what? We are doing nothing but turning her into a little idiot who is going to get us all killed.

May I remind you, Buffy, that you also treat her the exact way? Even by the end of S7, you'll still want to protect her.

Yay, Giles owns something, he's a new man with a new job and a new car. And he used to watch Passions with Spike. :D

Overall, a very enjoyable episode. You guys are gonna have fun watching it again.
 

Sep 04 2008 11:57 pm   #2Eowyn315
If Buffy made a secret identity of her hero self maybe her family and friends would be safer?
You know, I've heard that a lot. Both characters and fans talk about how Buffy's being the Slayer puts her friends and family in danger, but have we ever really seen them being targets because Buffy's the Slayer? I mean, other than Spike and Harmony, has any vampire ever looked up Buffy's address and come to the house, or kidnapped her friends or family to get to Buffy? The only instances I can think of are Angelus kidnapping Giles (which had more to do with his knowledge of Acathla than anything else) and Faith taking Willow hostage... but in both those cases, the bad guys used to be good guys, so they'd already know Buffy and her friends' identities - even if they'd tried to keep them secret. So I'm not really sure what good secret identities would have done them. I suppose it might have made things a little more difficult for Glory, given her "kidnap people one by one until one of them turns out to be the Key" approach, but she was after Dawn anyway, not Buffy.

Most of the time, Buffy's friends and family ended up in danger simply by proximity - either because they chose to help her, or because they just happened to be in the way when something was coming after Buffy. So, yeah, secret identities? Not so helpful.

I wonder why she has a crush on Xander, he's the biggest Buffy worshipper.
I think she probably likes him because he actually spends time with her. Sure, it's mostly just babysitting, but I guarantee Xander was over at the Summers' house more than Angel or Riley ever was, and he was probably nice to her when he saw her - treated her like a person when he could've just ignored her. I bet Angel (and probably Riley) never really made an attempt to engage her in conversation, whereas Xander doesn't seem to mind her hanging around.

I think that's also the reason why she develops a crush on Spike, rather than any of Buffy's other boyfriends. Sure, he's cool and dangerous and stuff, but he also talks to her and doesn't treat her like a kid. I don't think Buffy worship (or lack thereof) factored into her feelings, since in season 5, Spike was clearly the biggest Buffy-worshipper there was, and Dawn knew it, but it didn't dull her crush on him.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 05 2008 01:30 am   #3sosa lola
I think Buffy's friends being in danger because she's the slayer is something to think about, it's weird that Joss never used it, except with Harmony here. Angelus' plan was to hurt Buffy's friends in order to hurt her, but so far all he did was killing Willow's fish. When he killed Jenny, he was protecting himself from getting cursed, when he almost killed Xander he was out of his mind with jealousy because Drusilla was heads over heals in love with Xander, when he kidnapped Giles he wanted info. So he didn't really follow through with his plan.

I guess you're right about why Dawn got a crush on Xander. Throughout the episode, Riley keeps repeating that Dawn is a kid, which annoys Dawn so much. When Xander shows up, Dawn says that Xander treats everybody like equal, including her, he doesn't look down on anyone, so maybe it's the way he's treating her than makes her like him so much. Plus, he's a cutie. :D
Sep 06 2008 05:28 pm   #4Scarlet Ibis
Wow, there doesn't seem to be much else to be said about this ep, I don't think...Shall we start the next?
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Sep 06 2008 06:15 pm   #5sosa lola
LOL!! Guess I said everything... except that one of Harmony's minions is Andrew :D

Okay, start the next one, I'll watch The Replacement tonight ;)
Sep 06 2008 07:54 pm   #6nmcil
This episode introduces Dawn and also tries to set the screen fort the potential problems that are realized throughout the season -

We have the theme of stress and pressure that will affect the relationship between Riley and Buffy plus the pressure that Dawn brings into group, plus the "The Key" arc begins -

We also see Tara begin to take a more important part of the series, plus we see her as a woman that has a basic character of love and sympathy with people and the theme of outsiders.  Where Tara will eventually become part of the Scoobies and find love and acceptance, Spike, the "ever outsider" even with all his changes and efforts.

We see that Buffy will take care of and love Dawn, even while she  at times resents  her duty as The Slayer and with a very excellent touch we see some of the emotional stress that will come to fruition with Buffy.  Her sometimes "I want to be treated like the baby" (huge paraphrase) is connected back to her feeling that she must show a strong face and the "the strong one."  Riley will not understand that Buffy is desperate to control all the chaos and pain about her Mom and Dawn - he sees it as her being distant and letting him be part of her strength. 

Spike - well, there is always a good reason to bring in Spike - anyway, we will have Harmony and Spike eventually working together.  Again, great with the episode connections and titles - Harm and Spike trying to get the chip out and Spike telling her Buffy haunts him followed by his worst nightmare- being in love with The Slayer.  Buffy will haunt him evermore. 

This is one of those episodes that may not be a particular favorite or exciting, but there are many "future happenings" that are hinted  at.

I will watch it again as well -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Sep 06 2008 08:09 pm   #7sosa lola
I actually enjoy this episode for what it is: a piece of comedy. :) Sure there are hints of future plots here and there, and I quite hated how Dawn mentions that no one knows who she really is twice, in the beginning of the episode and end. Maybe if they just saved it to the end is better. Still, very enjoyable episode with lots of jokes, especially Dawn's impressions of Buffy's friends.
Sep 07 2008 01:24 pm   #8Spikez_tart
except that one of Harmony's minions is Andrew  - nope, the vamps are Brad, Cyrus, Peaches, and Mort.  :)  The Andrew look alike is Brad:

XANDER: I just, I just can't picture anyone pathetic enough to be following- (Looks at the minions again and pretends to be shocked) Is that Brad Konig? Huh! Hey Brad, who'd have thought when you were beating up kids in gym class, you'd end up Harmony's lapdog?
BRAD: Screw you, Harris.
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Sep 07 2008 02:25 pm   #9Guest
What she means is that he was played by Tom Lenk. ;)

CM
Sep 07 2008 02:43 pm   #10goldenusagi
She has a point, though. If Buffy made a secret identity of her hero self maybe her family and friends would be safer?

Hmm, well, maybe not her friends...  Buffy never did a 'secret identity,' but she did keep being the Slayer a secret as long as she could from her mom.  If she hadn't dusted that vamp with Spike in Becoming, I don't think she would have told Joyce until she was forced to by some other circumstance.  Of course, in the Dawn-memory verse, we have no idea at what point Joyce or Dawn found out.

I have to say, I absolutely hated this episode when I first saw it.  I could care less about Dawn then, and here's a whole episode about her?  I think I stopped watching it twice.  I know I was expecting a retcon, but not a retcon with no explanation and seemingly complete acceptance by the other characters, like everything was normal.  Of course, the creepy guy outside the Magic Box lets us know that something is wrong, but I was still very annoyed with Dawn for several episodes.
Sep 07 2008 07:02 pm   #11sosa lola
What she means is that he was played by Tom Lenk.

Hee, I did mean Tom Lenk by saying Andrew but forgot the actor's name and didn't bother to check :P

I have to say, I absolutely hated this episode when I first saw it.

I suppose many had the same reaction you had. Especially when it took many episodes before revealing the real reason behind Dawn's appearence.
Sep 07 2008 07:16 pm   #12Eowyn315
I wonder if the reaction is different for people who watched the show as it aired vs. on DVD. I didn't start watching until a few years after the series ended, so I already knew a lot of things that happened, both from inadvertently reading spoilers and because I had roommates that couldn't shut up about the show. :) So I was expecting Dawn's sudden appearance and knew it was all a mystical thing, and I was actually well-prepared to hate her, having gotten a sense of the fan reaction. I ended up being pleasantly surprised at how much she didn't bother me (and actually grew to like her), but I wonder if that would've been different if I hadn't been prepared for her to show up, and hadn't set my expectations so low.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 07 2008 07:27 pm   #13Scarlet Ibis
I wonder if the reaction is different for people who watched the show as it aired vs. on DVD.
I stopped watching mid or towards the end of s4, so when I picked things up again at "Restless," I was pretty loss, lol.  Then at the end of "Dracula," I was pretty much like WTF?  And then more with the no explanations...I was just trying to figure out if she was evil or not, casting a spell on anyone.  I didn't know what the crap was goins on.  (I did not read spoilers at that point, btw).

Also, in hindsight, I think Dawn was WAY too immature for her age, but it didn't bother me at the time.  I just kept thinking in the back of my head "she's 12," even though she really wasn't.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Sep 07 2008 07:34 pm   #14Eowyn315
I think Dawn was WAY too immature for her age
I think that was a problem with the role shifting. Originally, the part was written for a younger girl (I think they were thinking around nine years old), but then Sarah recommended Michelle for the role, and so they made her fourteen instead. But it seems like a lot of things (Dawn needing to be baby-sat, her tantrums, etc.) never got changed from the original little kid idea, so it has the affect of Dawn seeming way more young and immature than she is.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 07 2008 09:23 pm   #15goldenusagi
I wonder if the reaction is different for people who watched the show as it aired vs. on DVD.

I watched on DVD, but I still didn't know many of the plot details.  I knew a sister was going to show up, but I didn't know how.  I didn't expect the way it happened though, with everything seeming to be fine.  I expected some weird retcon.  I guess it was the weirdest retcon of them all though, since they completely rewrote Buffy's past in a way (depending on how detailed you think the Dawn memories were).
Sep 08 2008 02:21 am   #16Spikez_tart
What she means is that he was played by Tom Lenk -  DUH  tart makes an ass out of herself again.  Sighs.

Babysitting at 14 - my parents had sitters for my brother and me at that age because they were afraid we were going to kill each other while they were out.  :)P
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?