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Blood Ties: Episode Discussion

Oct 23 2008 01:34 pm   #1sosa lola

- I have to say I love how they keep referring to Glory as god instead of goddess. I like how this show keeps males and females as equals, even if it meant using masculine names to refer to females instead of the feminine names. Like how Willow usually refers to herself as gay instead of lesbian. However, while it looks okay to refer to women in masculine names, I don't see it to be taken well if men were referred to with feminine names. I wonder why.

- ANYA: I can do some research. I know *way* more about demon dimensions than Giles does. (Giles frowns) Well, I do.

You tell 'em, Anya!!!

- Anya is such a bad actress! "You make a very pretty little girl." *shakes head*

- ANYA: Gotta look. (Grabs the dress from Buffy) Oh, it's just so lovely! Oh, I wish it was mine!
Everyone gives her a look.
ANYA: (quietly) Oh, like you weren't all thinking the same thing. (puts the dress down)
GILES: I'm fairly certain I wasn't. (whispers to Xander) I've got one just like it.

Hee!!! Giles, I just love you!!!

- That moment with Dawn's present is so touching.

- JOYCE: It still seems to me like there's a lot you don't know about this. I mean, is she dangerous?
BUFFY: No.
GILES: Well, now, wait just a second. I assume you're talking about her existence rather than her intentions.

I hate how off Joyce sounds. "Is she dangerous?" She's your daughter! I seriously dislike how the writers are writing her character. Even when she just figured out that Dawn was the key, she didn't sound at all like a mother to me. I wish this "dangerous" line was said by Anya. She's the only one I can picture saying it.

- When Anya pushed Xander away as Dawn passed by, breaking their kiss so Dawn wouldn't see it, it reminds me of how she pats Dawn's head in Buffy's 21st birthday party next year. Anya clearly sees and treats Dawn as a child, more than any other character. Probably not Buffy, though.

- Tara and Anya are the most uncomfortable ones around Dawn. I think Willow and Xander are handling the news of her keyness much better, maybe because they knew Dawn longer?

- ANYA: We were talking about sex. I mean, you know us, sometimes we like to pretend stuff-
JOYCE: Um...
XANDER: Anya!
ANYA: You know, like, say there's a fireman, or a shepherd-
BUFFY: You know what? Let's not have this exchange of images right now.

- Hee, this is probably the first time Anya's description of her sexual adventures with Xander doesn't amuse other people. Usually the Scoobies would just snicker and smirk at Xander while he squirmed with embarrassment. It's Dawn's presence most obviously.

- *Grins* It's weird seeing Dawn not so impressed with Spike. She treats him like Buffy and Xander do. Like he's beneath her. That'll change in the next episode.

- Awww, love Spike trying to lift Olaf's hammer and can't, then an insecure glance at Dawn to see if she noticed. *huggles him!*

- I remember some fics where they have Spike wearing eyeglasses while reading because he doesn’t see well, he can barely read here, but it can be because of Giles' handwriting. Anyway, isn't a vampire gifted with a super ability to see through the dark? So why would Spike need eyeglasses?

- Poor Buffy. Riley didn't send her a card for her birthday But did she really expect a birthday card? She said she wasn't because of the "No contacts with civilians" but even if he could send a card, why would he? He's not her boyfriend anymore. Unless she wanted them to be friends…

- WILLOW: Preaching to the choir here, baby. (smiles at Tara)

Just wait until S8

- The scene with Dawn cutting her arm is so powerful, never fails to make me tear up.

- I know fans dislike Dawn, but her "Get out, get out, get out" in this episode is truly justified. I don't know how I'd handle knowing that I'm not real ten years ago when I was 14. But I'm sure I'll probably do crazier things than Dawn did here.

- Poor Spike, Buffy ruined his fingernail-painting :mad:

- Spike has a point, but I understand why Buffy is so frustrated. You wanna hate her, but you just can't. I think her initial assumption was that Spike found out and then told Dawn, something I don't fault her for thinking. She still doesn't know Spike well, still thinks he's the same big bad on a leash.

- Joyce seriously thinks that Dawn wants to go to school after yesterday's big revelations?

- I hate the whole misunderstanding eavesdropping thing that shows usually use to make someone angry and run away. Like here when Buffy is telling Joyce that they're not Dawn's family and Dawn overhears and gets angry. I can see that it was needed for the emotional scene where Dawn rips her things off and then runs away.

- BUFFY: Dawn!
JOYCE: (looking at something across the room) Buffy.
BUFFY: No. No, she could have burned the house down.
JOYCE: Buffy ... she's gone.

Dawn is going through something huge. I don't think Buffy's strict parenting can do her any good. She's too...clinical in the way she wants to help. She thinks if she lays out the facts and lets Dawn know where she came from, Dawn will feel better. Fortunately, by the end, she realizes that Joyce was right - all Dawn needs right now is to know that they love her.

- Cool to see Spike in the Scooby meeting. Do you think Buffy invited him?

- Heh, Buffy and Dawn look far younger in the swing scene than they should be. They were 16 and 10 when they arrived to Sunnydale.

- GILES: People have killed, died for it ... summoned armies to control the key.
XANDER: You know, uh ... she kinda has a crush on me.
GILES: Your point being?
XANDER: (stops walking) Well nothing, no, uh ... just saying, powerful being ... big energy gal digging the Xan-man. (Grins. Giles frowns at him) Some guys are just cooler, you know?

You know, every time I remember this scene in my head, I get annoyed at Xander. How shallow and grrr! But watching it on TV… I just smile. He's such an insecure boy! *huggles him*

- BUFFY: (calls) Dawn! Dawn!
SPIKE: Yeah, that should do it.
BUFFY: Shut up.

- Awww, a sweet Spuffy scene. I think last time we had one was in Fool For Love.

- The scene where Dawn tells Ben about her being the key. Why would Dawn spill the beans to a stranger? Is she that stupid?

- GLORY: He wakes up, tell your boyfriend to watch his mouth.
BUFFY: (very firmly) He is NOT my boyfriend.

First conversation writers do to foreshadow a future relationship.

- Glory is the only one who used the word "whelp" in the show and she was talking about Dawn. I'd love to know the fic that started the whole Spike calling Xander nothing but "whelp" phenomenon.

- Some fans are still bewildered by how Dawn is made out of Buffy, I think it makes sense. *shrugs*
 

Oct 23 2008 08:03 pm   #2Eowyn315
I like how this show keeps males and females as equals, even if it meant using masculine names to refer to females instead of the feminine names.
They do use "goddess" sometimes - Kennedy refers to Willow as a goddess in "Chosen." Also, Willow, Tara, and Amy invoke goddesses in various spells. But for some reason, Glory is never referred to that way.

I hate how off Joyce sounds. "Is she dangerous?" She's your daughter
I don't know, it never bothered me. I think she sounds an awful lot like her reaction to Buffy being the Slayer, the way she didn't understand what it meant and assumed the worst of Buffy (like, for example, that she killed people). In fact, there's probably a sense of "oh, no, not again" for Joyce - here she was thinking that at least one of her daughters was normal, it hasn't been that long that she's come to terms with Buffy being the Slayer, and now she finds out that Dawn's not who or what she thought she was, either.

I remember some fics where they have Spike wearing eyeglasses while reading because he doesn’t see well, he can barely read here, but it can be because of Giles' handwriting.
I think authors give him glasses in fics because he wore them as a human, but usually the explanation I've seen is that it's just a habit, like breathing or eating. I can't think of any reason why Spike as a vampire would need glasses (although didn't Dalton wear glasses in season 2?), and I agree with you that here, Spike can't read because of Giles' handwriting.

Unless she wanted them to be friends…
I can't imagine she thought that was possible. Even though she may have had a change of heart after their fight, Riley has no idea. The last time they talked, they had a huge fight, and as far as he knows, she never tried to stop him from leaving. I can't imagine how she could've gotten "we can still be friends" out of that.

I think that, logically, she didn't expect anything from him, but emotionally, holidays and special occasions are a time when you feel the absence of someone most prominently. So I think she's just missing him more than usual because it normally would've been a day he'd have celebrated with her. The lack of a card only reinforces that he's out of her life now.

Cool to see Spike in the Scooby meeting. Do you think Buffy invited him?
Yeah - probably not because she wants to include him, but because he's got the best tracking skills of any of them. Also, for what it's worth, in the shooting script, Spike is reluctant to help, and Buffy says, "I'll pay you. Just do it." But I guess that part got cut for time.

You know, every time I remember this scene in my head, I get annoyed at Xander. How shallow and grrr! But watching it on TV… I just smile. He's such an insecure boy!
It's also a wee bit icky that Xander, who is 20 years old at this point, is all proud of a crush that a 14-year-old girl has on him.

The scene where Dawn tells Ben about her being the key. Why would Dawn spill the beans to a stranger? Is she that stupid?
Well, to be fair to her, she doesn't actually say, "I'm the Key." She talks about being nothing and and not real, and mentions the monks and Glory. It's pretty clear she's on a self-pity rant and isn't really thinking about what she's saying, but to a regular person, that wouldn't mean anything anyway. Ben obviously knows about the whole thing and says, "You're the Key?" And then Dawn is shocked that he knows what she's talking about.

I'd love to know the fic that started the whole Spike calling Xander nothing but "whelp" phenomenon.
I think it started because "whelp" is apparently a fairly common derogatory term for Brits, and probably someone used it in a fic because it was something Spike could have called Xander. And then other people read the fic and copied it, and may or may not have realized that Spike never actually said it on the show, and over time it turned into this whole big fanon thing where it's the only thing Spike has ever called Xander...
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 23 2008 08:36 pm   #3Scarlet Ibis
Like how Willow usually refers to herself as gay instead of lesbian. However, while it looks okay to refer to women in masculine names, I don't see it to be taken well if men were referred to with feminine names. I wonder why.
Well, typically it works that way.  You could name a girl all kinds of weird things like Eddie or Henry apparently (and then typically something like Anne or Mae for a middle name), but you could never get away with naming a little boy Charlotte or Jennifer (Ashley, Kelly and Tracy slide by simply because they're unisex, which I think is crap, but it is how it is )

I can't think of any reason why Spike as a vampire would need glasses (although didn't Dalton wear glasses in season 2?), and I agree with you that here, Spike can't read because of Giles' handwriting.
I thought that Dalton wearing them was about him still having humanity or something?  Anyway, Spike mentions Giles writing "like a fruit fly" or something, and we see him reading books and scripts perfectly fine without glasses (AYW for instance).

Cool to see Spike in the Scooby meeting. Do you think Buffy invited him? Yeah - probably not because she wants to include him, but because he's got the best tracking skills of any of them. Also, for what it's worth, in the shooting script, Spike is reluctant to help, and Buffy says, "I'll pay you. Just do it."
She definitely invited him, though why she put the best tracker with her still made no sense to me.  Also, I think that just got deleted entirely--when we see Spike there, he looks tense, worried and is pacing.  He doesn't come off as a guy who's there for money, or who wants money.  He looks just as pensive and concerned as the rest of them.

You know, every time I remember this scene in my head, I get annoyed at Xander. How shallow and grrr! But watching it on TV… I just smile. He's such an insecure boy! It's also a wee bit icky that Xander, who is 20 years old at this point, is all proud of a crush that a 14-year-old girl has on him.

Well, as he says--he's "Big, funny Xander," being his usual silly self.  Also, he wasn't really looking at it that Dawn was a fourteen year old girl, but more that she's this ancient powerful being "digging the Xan Man."  And really, the number of girls who've had a crush on Xander can be named on one hand with fingers to spare. I cut the guy some slack
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Oct 23 2008 09:48 pm   #4sosa lola

I think she sounds an awful lot like her reaction to Buffy being the Slayer, the way she didn't understand what it meant and assumed the worst of Buffy (like, for example, that she killed people).

I liked her reaction to finding out that Buffy was a slayer. She was angry and scared and so much in denial. She acted like I expect a mother would. She even threatened Buffy never to come back if she left, which was a parent move to get children to obey. She was trying to protect Buffy by being stern. With Dawn, she seemed more... robot-like. It didn't shock her or make her go crazy and she was treating the subject in such a mechanical way it annoyed me. Perhaps it shows character-development on Joyce's behalf. That she was now accustomed to Sunnydale's wackiness, so she was far ready for something weird to happen any minute, even if it meant that her baby girl was another supernatural being.

I feel bad for poor Joyce... to the point where I ended up writing a drabble about what it feels like to have not so normal children.

Also, for what it's worth, in the shooting script, Spike is reluctant to help, and Buffy says, "I'll pay you. Just do it." But I guess that part got cut for time.

That does make sense in this point of their relationship.

It's also a wee bit icky that Xander, who is 20 years old at this point, is all proud of a crush that a 14-year-old girl has on him.

I never thought about it as icky. It's not like Xander wants Dawn sexually. What bothered me was that he was thinking about this trivial thing in a bad time, Dawn was missing and he was being gleeful over her having a crush on him? But then when I watched the scene I remembered how insecure the guy is, as Scarlet pointed out,  the girls who found him charming are easily numbered, so the thought of being the subject of cool and attraction to a teenage girl boosted his self-confidence. Like he's worthy of being teenage girls' crush. Not to mention that said teenage girl is actually some powerful energy that a god sought. That ought to make a previous-loser feel more special about himself.
 though why she put the best tracker with her still made no sense to me.

To have that sweet Spuffy scene But I agree, I'd have paired Spike with either Xander or Giles and the other would go with Buffy.
Also, I think that just got deleted entirely--when we see Spike there, he looks tense, worried and is pacing. He doesn't come off as a guy who's there for money, or who wants money. He looks just as pensive and concerned as the rest of them.

I can see the "I'll give you money" scene happening. Spike is still unsure about opening up to Buffy about his feelings, he'll cover it up with an attitude. Buffy thinking he'd want money in exchange of helping her is to be expected at this stage of their relationship.
 

Oct 23 2008 09:56 pm   #5Scarlet Ibis
I can see the "I'll give you money" scene happening. Spike is still unsure about opening up to Buffy about his feelings, he'll cover it up with an attitude. Buffy thinking he'd want money in exchange of helping her is to be expected at this stage of their relationship.
If he was putting on an act, then there was no reason for him to look upset about Dawn being missing, or for him to try to comfort Buffy ("You'll find her." )  I don't think he was at that point, especially since he probably berated himself and was feeling all guilty for yelling at Buffy earlier.

It didn't shock her or make her go crazy and she was treating the subject in such a mechanical way it annoyed me. Perhaps it shows character-development on Joyce's behalf. That she was now accustomed to Sunnydale's wackiness, so she was far ready for something weird to happen any minute, even if it meant that her baby girl was another supernatural being.
Well, to be fair to Joyce, we don't know exactly what she saw when she was temporarily crazy.  That probably affected her emotions slightly toward Dawn because of what she is, and how she saw her "true form."  But I don't doubt that she didn't love Dawn, and wasn't concerned about her well being, etc.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Oct 23 2008 11:51 pm   #6Eowyn315
She definitely invited him, though why she put the best tracker with her still made no sense to me.
Maybe because they both have super speed, so they could cover more ground together than if they were both saddled with non-superpowered humans? (Not that they seem to be in any particular hurry when we see them...) When you think about it, Buffy wouldn't really be a great asset to any other team. She doesn't have any superhuman tracking skills in this situation (her spidey sense only works for vampires), and they're not intending to fight anything, so there's no need to split up the good fighters. She probably went with Spike because he had the best chance of finding Dawn, and she wanted to be there when he did. Also, it's possible that no one else wanted to be paired with Spike.

Also, I think that just got deleted entirely--when we see Spike there, he looks tense, worried and is pacing. He doesn't come off as a guy who's there for money, or who wants money. He looks just as pensive and concerned as the rest of them.
Well, he doesn't say he wants money. I think that's just Buffy's automatic response - she expects Spike to do anything for money, so that's what she offers him as incentive, which I think is very much in character for her. Also, he calls Buffy sweetcheeks, which I'll admit, I'd pay money to see.

Also, he wasn't really looking at it that Dawn was a fourteen year old girl, but more that she's this ancient powerful being "digging the Xan Man."
Considering practially everyone Xander has been attracted to has turned out to be some kind of demon, I suppose it's completely in character that he'd like an ancient powerful being crushing on him... still a little weird to me, though.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 24 2008 02:39 am   #7Scarlet Ibis
Maybe because they both have super speed, so they could cover more ground together than if they were both saddled with non-superpowered humans? (Not that they seem to be in any particular hurry when we see them...) When you think about it, Buffy wouldn't really be a great asset to any other team. She doesn't have any superhuman tracking skills in this situation (her spidey sense only works for vampires), and they're not intending to fight anything, so there's no need to split up the good fighters. She probably went with Spike because he had the best chance of finding Dawn, and she wanted to be there when he did.
That's probably the most likely scenario.  Don't they eventually come to the park Dawn was at earlier?  I think it's funny that since of smell/tracking skills got stronger mysteriously in s7...

She treats him like Buffy and Xander do. Like he's beneath her.
I wouldn't necessarily say that--she kind of treats him like her equal--like another teenager.  Though I do think he regresses around Dawn   She's comfortable around him--she's not saying mean things to piss him off.  Though I bet if it had been Buffy or Xander, he would have responded completely different than he had.  But Dawn is in fact a kid, and I think he's just as comfortable around her as she is with him.

(Spike leans closer to her, speaks menacingly)
SPIKE: Shouldn't you be tucked away in your beddy-bye? All warm and safe where nothing can eat you?
DAWN: (giggles) Is that supposed to scare me?
SPIKE: (sighs) Little tremble wouldn't hurt.
DAWN: Sorry, it's just ... come on. *I'm* badder than you.
SPIKE: (insulted) Are not!
DAWN: Am too. You're standing in the bushes hugging a bent box of chocolates, and I'm-
SPIKE: What? Sneaking out to braid hair and watch Teletubbies with your mates?
DAWN: No. I'm breaking into the magic shop ... (boastfully) to steal things.
SPIKE: (thoughtful) Magic shop, eh? All number of beasties between here and there.
(Dawn looks a little nervous)
SPIKE: Bet they'd really go for a little red riding hood like you. Bet that wouldn't sit too well with big sister.
DAWN: (uncertain) I can take care of myself.
(Spike just looks at her. She looks around, anxious.)
DAWN: You wanna come steal some stuff?
SPIKE: Yeah, all right.
(Dawn nods. They walk off.)
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Oct 24 2008 07:20 am   #8sosa lola

Considering practially everyone Xander has been attracted to has turned out to be some kind of demon, I suppose it's completely in character that he'd like an ancient powerful being crushing on him... still a little weird to me, though.

I don't think Xander gets proud about demons having a crush on him. He had always been disappointed and upset when his date turned out to be a demon. The case here is that Dawn is some special thing a god wants and this special thing thinks Xander is cool. I think it all goes down to Xander's low self-esteem.

She probably went with Spike because he had the best chance of finding Dawn, and she wanted to be there when he did.

I agree. Buffy would want to be the first to find Dawn and Spike is the best choice for that.

I wouldn't necessarily say that--she kind of treats him like her equal--like another teenager.

I don't think she sees him as an equal. Not yet. She thinks he's a joke. She thinks she's scarier and more daring than him. In this episode and Checkpoint, I can see that she never really thought of him much. He doesn't exist. She doesn't hate him like Buffy and Xander do, but that doesn't mean she cares about him or think of him much. But after he helped her sneak into the Magic Box, she began to see the cool side of him. Hence the newfound crush.