- It's obvious that The Gift was intended to be the last episode of the series because of the "previously" that started from S1. Even though it's way better than Chosen, I'm so glad we had S6 and S7. I'm not a fan of S7, but more Buffy is better than no Buffy.

- BUFFY: Hey, what's going on? .
KID: Help me! Call the police!
VAMP: Get outta here, girl. (turns back to the kid)
BUFFY: You guys havin' a fight? 'Cause, you know, fighting's not cool.
KID: Get out of here!

Aww, love a noble victim.

- It's weird that vampires usually know that Buffy is a vampire slayer. Surely newly turned vampires are gonna be clueless about her, unless they knew her when they were alive.

- I was almost turned on when Giles screamed, "Yes, we bloody well are!" Yep, I have a crush on Giles, so there. :D

- Giles is speaking with his mind, Buffy with her heart, that's the difference between them. The good thing is that both can switch when needed, Giles' decision to help Buffy in Helpless was about heart winning against mind, and Buffy's decision to kill Angel for the world was about mind winning against heart.

- WILLOW: We'll solve this. We will. Don't have another coma, okay?

Hee! Even Buffy smiles at that.

- It's heartbreaking to see Giles losing faith in Buffy. And Buffy's response to it is more heartbreaking.

- I love Xander's disgust with himself when he suggested that they can kill Ben. He's just like Buffy when it comes to killing humans, even if it was for the greater good.

- Poor Anya, gets yelled at by Spike and Giles. She always managed to annoy everybody, and while I understand everybody's frustration, I find myself sympathizing with her as well as not hating the others for being aggravated, because I know I'll be as well.

- So, now Olaf is a troll god, oh well, there's no show without some retconning.

- Aww, Xander complementing Anya's intelligence. And Willow's sweet bitterness over Xander not figuring out that smart chicks are hot in tenth grade.

- I understand Dawn's anger and her preferring to deal with Glory over Ben. The devil is a better company than a betrayer. But I still feel bad for Ben.

- GILES: I love Dawn.
BUFFY: I know.
GILES: But I've sworn to protect this sorry world, and sometimes that means saying and doing ... what other people can't. What they shouldn't have to.

This conversation defines Giles' character for me.

- Even if Buffy decided to quite, I think she and her loved ones will always be the target for any new big bad. She's been in this business for so long to expect that she can just have a normal life without any disturbance from supernatural villains.

- I'm disturbed with how much Xander and Anya love sex. Lol

- XANDER: No? I mean, it sounded like you, uh ... (paces past her) arrived.

OMG! He did not just say that!! :lol:

- I love Anya's gradual development: in S3, she ran away from the apocalypse, not even her new found interest in Xander made her stay. In S5, she stuck around for Xander, but she didn't really care about the rest. In S7, she stuck around for the humanity and not because of Xander.

- When did Xander buy the ring? Was he planning on proposing to Anya awhile ago? Obviously it was before their big escape in Spiral.

- Do you really think Xander proposed because the world was going to end? I think his life was going so well in S5, he's been maturing so fast, what with the steady girlfriend, the new apartment, the perfect job, the promotions…. So perhaps he wanted to make another step toward maturity. I think it hit him in S6 that he was going to make a big commitment he wasn't ready for.

- Willow's lack or confidence and not working well under pressure is probably what holds her back from being a strong leader. While she's stronger than Buffy, she doesn't have her confidence and experience in leading.

- WILLOW: But, last few days, I've mostly been looking into ways to help Tara. I-I know that shouldn't be my priority....

Buffy leans over and puts her hand on Willow's knee.

BUFFY: Of course it should.

Nice exchange. I love when it's not always about Buffy. The others have issues of their own.

- Do you think there's something significant to Tara slapping Willow?

- Xander and Spike can't help but argue, even during these critical times.

- Aww at Spike's expression when Buffy invites him in. Nice to see Buffy trusting Spike and counting on him to protect Dawn.

- SPIKE: I know you'll never love me.

Don't worry, she will ;)

- I just love the little St. Crispin's Day moment between Spike and Giles, these two have a lot to share and bond over.

- WILLOW: Could use a little courage.
Spike's hand comes into the shot, holding a small flask in front of Willow's face.
WILLOW: The real kind.
Spike looks over at her. She looks at him.
WILLOW: But thanks.
Spike nods, puts the flask away.

That's just too adorable for words!! Spike and Willow, awww!

- The Tara/Willow scene was so beautiful, and I'm so glad Willow didn't ruin it by calling Tara "baby".

- I love that Willow chose Spike rather than anyone else to head up and rescue Dawn.

- I kinda hated Spike's line about making a promise to a lady, justifying why he's helping Dawn to Doc. He obviously cares about Dawn and it's not just because of his feelings toward Buffy.

- I guess because Doc has shoved his knife into Spike's back, it was easier for him to beat Spike.

- Giles killing Ben always gives shudders, one of the best BtVS moments. I wonder if Joss had followed his original plan and Xander was Glory's half… the scene where Giles kills Xander would be more tragic and powerful.

- I love how every character has a shining moment in this episode, it's probably why I enjoy it more than Chosen. Buffy throwing herself instead of Dawn, Spike being the man Buffy trusted to protect Dawn and heading up the tower to do just that, Xander with his "glorified bricklayer" moment, Willow giving Tara her brain back and weakening Glory, Tara leading them to the place where the ritual happens, Anya sacrificing her life for Xander's, Giles killing Ben/Glory, and Dawn wanting to sacrifice her life for the world.

- The gang's reaction to Buffy's death is so heartbreaking: Spike, Willow and Dawn crying, Giles' tearful face, Xander's shocked face, Anya's sad face, and Tara comforting Willow.

- Do you really think Xander proposed because the world was going to end? I think his life was going so well in S5, he's been maturing so fast, what with the steady girlfriend, the new apartment, the perfect job, the promotions…. So perhaps he wanted to make another step toward maturity. I think it hit him in S6 that he was going to make a big commitment he wasn't ready for.
I think he was indecisive about it, but clearly potential world endage (in case they didn't make it), pushed him to jump the gun a bit.  He had the ring for awhile, for a "just in case thing" clearly, but I think he thought that if one of them were to not make it, he'd never forgive himself for at least letting her know how much he loved her.

- Xander and Spike can't help but argue, even during these critical times.
That wasn't real arguing--it was more of a banter.  At serious times like that, with potential impending death on your heels, jokes (and orgasms--Xander and Anya) can help keep you sane.

- I kinda hated Spike's line about making a promise to a lady, justifying why he's helping Dawn to Doc. He obviously cares about Dawn and it's not just because of his feelings toward Buffy.
Well, there were only so many responses he could have given, and the "promise to a lady" thing is vague, but also true and sincere.  And also, a very William thing to say.  Although, he could have said, "Because I give a damn," "Because I love being contrary," or...I don't know.  Either way, Dawn knows that Spike cares.

- I guess because Doc has shoved his knife into Spike's back, it was easier for him to beat Spike.
Spike had been having a rough time of it over the past, what week?  He hadn't healed completely from his bout with Glory, he probably hadn't been feeding properly...Xander was in better form when they went against Doc in "The Weight of The World," which proves how in shape Spike wasn't.  A knife in the back was probably more like icing on a wounded cake.

The Gift was only intended as a last episode, in that Joss always prepared to leave each season wrapped up enough because he always worried about cancellation. The brokering to go to UPN was already happening, and he knew what he was going to do for the beginning of season 6 as long as the deal didn't fall through.

I'm glad this episode doesn't get to me as much as it did on the first couple viewings, lol. I'm okay until Spike cries at the end. Can't see that and not join in. :)

CM

I live in Norway so i was unspoiled and i thought Dawn was gonna die (THAT would have been a good episode!) and then Buffy died... Not good!. Spike`s reaction always makes my vision get all blurry... Much better than Angel`s one in the season finale of "Angel"... But if that was the ending to the show it would have sucked. I think The Gift is a really good ep but come on guys!, don`t you just love Chosen?.
I love every ep that includes some Spuffy love XD. And since i REALLY love Buffy as a character, i can`t  say i want her 6 feet under. Permanently, i mean...

I'm okay until Spike cries at the end. Can't see that and not join in. :)

Yeah--that's what gets to me most (emotionally) in that ep.

~Scarlet

Even if Buffy decided to quite, I think she and her loved ones will always be the target for any new big bad. She's been in this business for so long to expect that she can just have a normal life without any disturbance from supernatural villains.
True, but I don't think Buffy was quitting so that she could have a normal life at this point. She was quitting because she'd lost all faith in the job - if being the Slayer meant that she'd constantly have to choose between saving the world and the people she loved, then she didn't want to be the one to have to make those choices anymore. I think for Buffy, that's a much bigger burden than the day-to-day slayage.

Although, come to think of it, other than a few vampires (Angelus, Spike, and Harmony are the only ones that come to mind), when have Buffy's loved ones ever been the target for a big bad because she was the Slayer? Usually they end up in bad situations just by virtue of living in Sunnydale, but rarely does trouble come looking for them because of their connection to Buffy. Even this season with Glory - it wasn't really about Buffy, it was Dawn being sent to her that made them all targets. So if Buffy quit slaying, I imagine the Scoobies wouldn't be targeted very much, though Buffy herself might be.

Do you really think Xander proposed because the world was going to end?
Hmmm... yes and no. Like you pointed out, obviously he had to have bought the ring a while ago, and was either working up the courage or waiting for the right moment to pop the question. I think his choosing that moment was probably two-fold - one, he wanted to get it out there just in case the world did end, and two, he wanted to take Anya's mind off the world ending for a bit (since the sex didn't really work).

Do you think there's something significant to Tara slapping Willow?
Not really... I think it's just very un-Tara-like, so it shows that she's pretty far gone from her usual self. Also, it gives Willow another chance to do that sad face she does so well.

I love that Willow chose Spike rather than anyone else to head up and rescue Dawn.
I'll be honest, I don't think it was any particular trust or favoritism there. I think she just knew that Spike could get up the tower faster than anyone else.

The Gift was only intended as a last episode, in that Joss always prepared to leave each season wrapped up enough because he always worried about cancellation.
Yeah, but this one definitely has much more of a "series finale" feel than any season finale we've had previously. I think it's because they'd set up all the themes and everything throughout the season, anticipating that this was really the end and wanting to do it justice, and they'd built the plot up to Buffy's death, so they had to pay it off in a way that makes it really seem like a series finale, even though by that point they knew they would be coming back. I don't think it's just a "we could get cancelled at any point" kind of thing - there's definitely some special work that went into this one (like the previouslies and that opening scene in the alley) to make it feel like the end of the series.

Well, part of an episode we actually see is the Network Cut, the last cut before airing......and the WB was saying goodbye. There was even a message from them at the end, that if a person watching didn't know the show was continuing on another network, you'd think it was over. The WB was a bit bitter over losing BTVS to UPN for more money (and Joss had to do a lot of talking to get them to allow Angel to cross over in Season 7). But Joss wasn't ending the show, anyway.....nothing was changed because they went to UPN, because Fox started negotiations early in season 5. The WB didn't want to pay more for the show now that the standard 5 year lease was up, and UPN was willing to meet Fox's terms. Season 5 does have that "peaking" feel, but it just happened that way, not because Joss changed his mind about ending with that season.

Willow didn't ruin it by calling Tara "baby". - that just gags me.  I don't know why.  Surely Joss et al could have thought of a cute nickname for Willow to call Tara?

Tara slapping Willow - Tara is in a sort of prophetic mood - she calls Giles a killer.  Maybe she's slapping Willow for the stuff she's going to do in S6.  I know I'd like to slap her sometimes.  I really don't like where the Willow character ended up.  I don't mean the whole abusing magic thing, that was kind of fun, but she just got so pompous.  Or something.

Dawn - why does everybody hate Dawn so much.  I thought she was kind of fun with her little diaries and stealing Buffy's clothes and running around with Spike.  Yeah, she was a pain in the neck in S6 when she was whining all the time.  A woman at work today said she thought Dawn ruined the entire show.  (Which will show how busy we were).  I think that's going way too far.

Sosa - When you get ready to kick off the next episode, we're were going back to S4, which we missed because I got antsy for Spike spike spike, all the time.

Sosa - When you get ready to kick off the next episode, we're were going back to S4, which we missed because I got antsy for Spike spike spike, all the time.

So you'd like the next season for episode rewatch to be S4 and not S6?

A woman at work today said she thought Dawn ruined the entire show.

I really dislike the whole "*insert character* ruined the show" complaint. I think each character added something to the show, while S6 Dawn is my least fave, she did have her moments. Especially in Grave and I loved her mature reaction to Spuffy and her squeal when Tara and Willow reunited.

Maybe she's slapping Willow for the stuff she's going to do in S6. I know I'd like to slap her sometimes.

I doubt it. I agree with Eowyn that it's more about having Alyson do the sad Willow face that moves a lot of fans and makes them sympathize with Willow.

As for slapping Willow, I don't think I wanna slap her in S5, but I'd like to do so in S6. Then again, I wanna slap all the characters in S6. lol

I'll be honest, I don't think it was any particular trust or favoritism there. I think she just knew that Spike could get up the tower faster than anyone else.

I agree that she did it because Spike is the fastest and most capable one to save Dawn, which shows a bit of trust as well. Willow's best pick would be Buffy, but she was busy slowing down Glory. So Spike is the second best.

when have Buffy's loved ones ever been the target for a big bad because she was the Slayer?

Just because it happened a few times on the show, it could happen in the future. The First had been playing with her friends' minds to make them turn against Buffy, if they weren't her friends, it wouldn't have bothered showing up to them. It's not far-fetched to have a new villain who wants to take down the ex-slayer who's a legend to kidnap one of her friends as a way to make her come to him/her, trying to save her friend.

I think The Gift is a really good ep but come on guys!, don`t you just love Chosen?

I don't hate Chosen, I just think that The Gift is more balanced and better. I love that each character has a shining moment in The Gift, sadly some characters didn't get a shining moment in Chosen like Giles, Xander and Dawn. Plus there are so many plot holes that are too noticeable to be ignored... the only thing off about The Gift was the retcon about Olaf being a god.

But I agree with you that I rather have two more seasons of Buffy than a perfect final. :)
 

So you'd like the next season for episode rewatch to be S4 and not S6?
I personally would not want to rehash s4...I think s6 has more to offer in terms of discussion.  I suggest either doing them simultaneously, or not doing every ep from s4, because that really isn't necessary.  But again, there are no rules to this...

<--also, does not love "Chosen."

I personally would not want to rehash s4...I think s6 has more to offer in terms of discussion.

I think both S4 and S6 will inspire lots of discussions, but I'm more excited to rewatch S6... :D Maybe we can rewatch both seasons? Or delay the S4 rewatch until we finish S7.

I Suggest that we discuss add "Pangs" during the Thanksgiving week - maybe even have a "Pangs" watch day.  One thing that I am very interested in hearing comments about is how aggressive Giles is in this episode.  I would also like to hear what our members think of the political implications from this episode - how does The Initiative connect with the theme of the politics and power of social control of groups. 

Not so sure that we need to get back to Season Four - the discussion is now on this track.  If we want, maybe next week would be a good time to discuss the Dreamscape Episodes - particularly as most of those have been written by Joss Whedon and he is particularly interested in the thinking process and mental conditions of his characters.   Even in "Intervention," the guide journey feels very much like a dreamscape.

Does anyone have suggestions or special requests for how to proceed?

Pangs - definitely a Turkey day special

S4 - Okay, I was going to say cool with me to blaze right ahead to S6, then I looked at the list of episodes to see if maybe there were one or two good ones that we hadn't hashed over endlessly, and I saw so many excellent Spike episodes - Harsh Light of Day, Something Blue, New Man, Who are You, Superstar, Yoko Factor.  Small but meaty Spike bites.  Yum.  But S6 is full of Spikey goodness, too.  I'm good with either. 

The Chosen - I loathe that episode.  I will hold back till we get there.

Dreamscapes - I've been looking forward to this.  NM - can you put together a list of dreams? 

The Chosen - I loathe that episode. I will hold back till we get there.

Wow, is it possible to hate Chosen??!. There`s some sick, sick people out there...

Wow, is it possible to hate Chosen??!. There`s some sick, sick people out there...
Uh, why does one automatically have to love "Chosen?"  Why are you "sick" if you don't?  I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.

~Scarlet

Why don't member list any episode that they remember as a "dreamscape" 

here are some of the "dreamscape" to consider:


http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=10 -  Nightmares

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=60 - Fear Itself

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=65 - Something Blue  (while not exactly a dreamscape, the magic spell for Buffy & Spike might be good to add)

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=78 - Restless

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=99 - The Weight of the World

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=113 - Dead Things (another episode with great deal of important dreamscape quality)

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=117 - Normal Again

http://vrya.net/bdb/ep.php?ep=139 - LMPTM  (another possible episode that could be added  as  flash back imagery)

anyone have other episodes to add?

Should  "Superstar"  be part of the Dreamscape list?

Uh, why does one automatically have to love "Chosen?" Why are you "sick" if you don't? I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.
Well, if your a Spuffy it`s pretty normale to love it, just saying... And the "sick" line i made is just my kind of humor, so whatever.