BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Who do you love- Spike or Buffy?

Feb 15 2009 10:19 pm   #1Guest
I was just wondering on this Spike/Buffy site, of the two in the relationship, who is everyone's favorite character- Spike or Buffy? Who do you sympathize with the most? Who do you support unconditionally? Whose side are you on in confrontations or when somebody's gonna be hurt? You can say you're overal favorite character of the two, or your favorite character for only specific seasons, or exceptions to the rule but how you're totally on the side of girl power, or whatever. I wanna hear it!

<i/>Who do you love? <i/>
Feb 15 2009 11:40 pm   #2Shell Presto
That's an odd question for me. Spike is my favourite character because he's very like me. Outspoken, trying to be cool but often looking foolish, not really giving a damn what others think and pathetic when it comes to his feelings. So I moreso empathize strongly with him instead of loving him. But then, he's also very hot, so there has to be a bit of a crush there.

But when it comes to fights and such, I generally think Spike is right, even if he fails at making a successful argument.

I've never really felt much for Buffy. She's too polished and vain. (I mean in that she cares how people perceive her and therefore hides her feelings. Not in the way she dresses... although I'll never know how she can fight in heels.) I really only feel for her when she opens up and is vulnerable, which isn't too often. I almost always like her more at the end of seasons than the beginning or middle. But I also think she's more of a realistic character that way, especially considering  her age. I think you have to be over 100 to finally stop giving a damn what the world wants of you.

Ironically, as far as characters I love, realistically speaking, I'd probably go for Xander or Oz. But Spike remains my favorite for look and relatability.
Feb 16 2009 10:11 am   #3nmcil

From these two, Spike by far the favorite character.  Buffy, IMO, is too harsh and very often narrow minded in her perceptions.  Buffy comes across as self centered, as if the consequences of actions as they relate to her are what matter first.  When Buffy is being the great self sacrificing hero warrior, she can be magnificent and beautiful, but so many times, Buffy in the everyday world is a plain Bitch.  

Spike, has his own horrible traits, he can be selfish and demanding as well - but generally I find him to be very clever (before the decided to go with the dumbing down treatment) and much more knowledgeable about how things really work in the world - not committed to narrow world views or the dogmatic adherence to ideas, better able to see the gray shades between the black and white end points.  Spike, like Buffy, when he takes on the role of selfless warrior and protector is magnificent as well.  

Spike will always be my favorite character, because for me he is the prime metaphor of humans struggling to pull from themselves their best and most positive life forces - not to let the inner demons control their life.   That is why I will always be hoping for the best things from him and for him - because Spike for me is my idea of Humanity moving beyond all the hatreds and stupidity and ignorance that normally sets the rules and dynamics for life on this planet - actually, that is what The Soul in The Buffyverse means to me as well. 

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 16 2009 10:56 am   #4Guest
i was gonna say more, but nmcil pretty much said everything i would have come up with and made it make sense. so, here here for spike!
legen
Feb 16 2009 12:10 pm   #5sosa lola
Out of the two, I love Spike more He's just more adorable

Seriously, I find Spike more interesting and enjoyable to watch on TV than Buffy- as well as to read in fanfic. It doesn't mean I hate Buffy. I LOVE her, she's my favorite female character, but Spike is ahead of her in my list of fave characters.
Feb 16 2009 12:14 pm   #6TammyDevil666
Well, I have to be more on Buffy's side here.  Of course Spike is one of my favorite characters, but he's not someone I liked right away.  I always liked Buffy, even though yes, she did have her bitchy moments, she was still a great character.  I didn't really like Spike until the 5th season, but then his character was ruined for me in Angel.  I didn't like him so much then.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Feb 16 2009 12:41 pm   #7sosa lola

Ooooh I loved Spike on AtS To be honest, I liked him more when he wasn't around Buffy. It hurts me to see him being so whipped. When he's by himself, he gets to be more confident and entertaining. That's why it took me a long time to become a Spuffy, Spike's interactions with other characters win me more than his with Buffy... until I started reading Spuffy fanfic. And rewatching the show. It does help reshape your thoughts.

I agree about Buffy, Tammy. She's an amazing character, so many layers, so many flaws, lots of heart and courage. A mix of good and bad qualities. And best of all, she's such a forgiving characters. I love her.

Feb 16 2009 12:54 pm   #8TammyDevil666
Yeah, but see, I didn't like Spike until he became whipped...lol!  I liked him more around Buffy.  I'm actually someone that doesn't care for evil Spike, I didn't like him until he started to change for the better.  Before that, he just irritated me, and all I really liked on AtS was him pestering Angel.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Feb 16 2009 02:40 pm   #9Shell Presto
I didn't really like Spike until the 5th season, but then his character was ruined for me in Angel. I didn't like him so much then.

I thought it was extremely interesting to see how he snapped back to being overly confident (to the point of obnoxiousness) and selfish as soon as he was removed from Buffy in Angel season 5. It makes you wonder if he really likes being in love because, as he stated in Buffy season 3, he know's he's love's bitch when he's around her.
Feb 16 2009 03:43 pm   #10EveryLastDrop

I'm a huge fan of those daring to show their hearts, so even though I loved Spike as a villain, my favorite character was Buffy for the first couple seasons, because she was so real and emotional and brave in how she loved. Later, though, Buffy seemed to lose a lot of her individual bravery about everything in life, not Slaying, and Spike became my favorite character of the two of them again. I admit that I loved his Love's Bitch speech and how often he seemed to prove it, and then how he moved beyond it. Spike has so much feeling about everything and has so many different facets to his personality. I was a little thrown when he popped out of the amulet in AtS and seemed like a huge difference in his character had come about, like all the new pessimism and quiet uncaring sarcasm. But then he had some really wonderful scenes, as if he'd finally reached who he could be, and some really funny scenes that were classically Spike's humor. I don't think there's a time I didn't love Spike's character, but it took until the later seasons for him to pull ahead of Buffy for me, and part of that was about how Buffy changed.

I do remember what I said. The promise. To protect her.  If I had done that... even if I didn't make it... you wouldn't have had to jump. But I want you to know that I did save you. Not when it counted, of course, but after that. Every night after that. I'd see it all again. Do something different. Faster or more clever, you know? Dozens of times, lots of different ways...
   Every night I save you.

Feb 16 2009 06:55 pm   #11Guest
I'd have to say I like Spike more than Buffy. He's just so sarcastic, funny, sexy, and kickass, and yet he can be loving and gentle. Not that he is perfect. I just think he has so many interesting parts to his personality. And I've really liked his story, it gives you so much to imagine and build on as a writer. He went from sweet nerdy momma's boy, to young vamp, to Slayer of slayers, to chipped vamp, to vamp in love, to souled vamp, and ghost souled vamp, etc.

What I really like -and is somewhat sad- about Spike is his ability to love. No matter who he was or what he was doing he loved greatly, even if he never fully got that love in return, even if they treated him horribly. Sure, he's a vampire, but I think his true strenght -and weakness- is his ability to love without question and keep putting himself out there no matter how many times he gets knocked down -until he showed up on Angel that is

And when it comes to Spike vs Buffy, I tend to side with Spike, not because he's so perty, but because he at least admits his mistakes, makes up for them. When it came to their relationship I think Spike getting his soul showed how sorry he was for the wrong he'd done. However, though Buffy allowed him back into her house and cared for him, I always felt it was shown as how forgiving she could be, rather than her actually having some wrong to admit to, and make up for.
Feb 16 2009 08:56 pm   #12sosa lola

I'm actually someone that doesn't care for evil Spike

Oh, me too. I like Spike the second he got chipped, he was so much fun around the Scoobies in S4 especially Xander and Giles. My OTT (One True Threesome ) Xander/Spike/Giles.... siiiiiiigh

 

Feb 16 2009 09:20 pm   #13TammyDevil666
No, I didn't even care much for chipped Spike.  For some reason, I didn't really start to like him until after he fell for Buffy.  "Crush" is probably the first episode for me when I could really see them together and not be grossed out about it.  Sadly, I was a Bangel for too long, glad reformed Spike opened up my eyes.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Feb 16 2009 09:53 pm   #14BecomingChosenGirl13
I completly adore Buffy, this sounds silly, but i kinda think of her as my sister, lol. She`s just a character that i love so much that i regard her as family. Yup, i`m lame . Spike is amazing too, and definitively my second most lovable character, but i hate evil Spike so he`s not number one .
Feb 16 2009 11:06 pm   #15nmcil
No, I didn't even care much for chipped Spike. For some reason, I didn't really start to like him until after he fell for Buffy. "Crush" is probably the first episode for me when I could really see them together and not be grossed out about it

Curious - why would the Bangel relationship exclude  Spuffy?   they are such a different relationship - Bangel would certainly effect any Spuffy relationship but I don't see why it would make the Buffy-Spike relationship difficult to accept -

What changes in Spike made you accept that this would be a good relationship or maybe just an acceptable one.  At the end, their relationship does work ;perhaps best  as the force that pushes them on their personal journeys of transformation. 

What did you find in the Angel-Buffy relationship that committed you to their being together?  How was it different for Buffy-Spike?
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 17 2009 03:04 am   #16Eowyn315
I like them both at different times. I don't support one of them unconditionally, or always side with the same person because neither one of them is right every single time. I don't love either of them to the point that I'll ignore their faults or bad behavior simply because they're a favorite character.

But, for what it's worth, when I write, I'm much more in Buffy's head than Spike's.
Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Feb 17 2009 04:31 am   #17TammyDevil666
There is really no comparison when it comes to Bangel and Spuffy, in my opinion.  It's just that Angel came first and he was this great love of hers, that was the first time I ever saw a forbidden romance of a vampire/human and well, I was young and stupid back then.  I was really upset when Angel left and always wanted them together, that I couldn't see her hooking up with Spike, and I didn't even like him at the time, but when he started to change for her and I realized just how much he loved her, way more than Angel ever did, it opened up my eyes a bit.  Hence the 5th seaon of AtS being so disappointing for me.  The second he becomes corporeal, he goes off and boinks Harmony.  Sure, it's been a while, but that just killed his character for me. 
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Feb 17 2009 06:19 am   #18Scarlet Ibis
Spike, hands down.  He's not always right, and he's not perfect, (which he knows, and that is refreshing), but he IMO, is easier to relate to.  There are so many components and layers to Spike--I think it'd be hard for one not to find something in him that reminds one of oneself.  Also, he rates the highest on my emotional meter--Spike can make me laugh or cry.

As a writer, between the two of them, it's easier to get into Spike's head.  In fact, sometimes it's like he's in mine, lol.  Of all the characters, Spike is the easiest voice for me to write.

Of the arguments on the series between Spike and Buffy, for the most part I'd have to say I'd side with Spike.  He's just more logical.  "Pangs" comes to mind.

I wouldn't say "unconditional" support, cause that sounds like something only a mother could have, and also, there have been times when Spike's pissed me off, but between the two, Spike has my support because of his vulnerability.  He's emotionally available, and quite easy to be emotionally damaged.  After season two, it's just a gradual downward spiral of Buffy becoming emotionally closed off.  I just can't warm up to and empathize with stone.
"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Feb 17 2009 07:31 am   #19Guest
Buffy: 1st, last & always. Not even close, although Spike is among my favorite other characters on the show, largely due to the talent & charisma of James Marsters.. Buffy is the hero, Spike is the guy who improves b/c of Buffy. As for Buffy being closed off, as Scarlet Ibis notes it's a gradual development, a result of exactly the fact that she is deeply sensitive & has been thru horrendous things. It's what James Jones, among others, called the 1000-yard stare, the look that all combat vets get sooner or later (unless they're vampires, of course, in which case all that death is just a good time). Buffy is young, sensitive, human & innocent. Spike, though an individual of many layers & of remarkable qualities, is none of these (although you can make an argtument for sensitive). He is not young, not innocent, not human & only internittently & in some ways sensitive. Spike is steeped in 120 years of murder, torture & blood, & --prior to the soul--entirely unrepentant. I ENJOY Spike b/c he's entertaining & Marsters did such a great job, but I admire & sympathise with Buffy.

Ikepear
Feb 17 2009 09:35 am   #20nmcil
I don't think we can really separate these two - the are like the black and white that meets and makes all the wonderful shades of gray - once the writers started really connecting the two, for me they really became more like one reflections of each other and the dynamics of their lives and experiences were so connected that, for me they became almost an abstraction - Buffy and Spike by the sheer force of power and intensity and interactions, creating new forms from the old.   I think that for me, this is probably a better description of how my mind and heart actually responds to them. 

I love Spike, but I love him more as Spike actively connecting and transforming from his experience with Buffy - and the same for Buffy.  It's  difficult for me not to see her as a failed hero, but then she too is transformed by Season Seven into a much greater woman as is Spike. 

I like Spike no. 1 - I like Buffy no 2 but  I LOVE SPIKE-BUFFY reflecting and transforming each other A++++
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 17 2009 01:42 pm   #21slaymesoftly
What Eowyn said.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.