BSV Forum - General - Episode Discussions

New Moon Rising

May 25 2010 02:25 am   #1Spikez_tart
I can't take thinking about S8 anymore, so here's some thoughts on the good old days:

Women make men lose control - The first time Buffy kisses Angel, he rips into his vamp face.  Later, when they have sex, he turns into bad old Angelus.  In this ep, Oz turns back into a werewolf when he becomes angry and jealous of Willow's apparent relationship with Tara.  Later, when he sees Willow, he again starts to turn.  You could extend this further and say that Spike turns bad around Buffy when he tries to rape her in SR.  Usually though he's more in control than the rest.

Buffy/Riley the cracks are starting to show.   When we first see the gang at Giles' apartment, Anya is sitting on Xander's lap and later she sits right next to him on the couch.  Buffy and Riley are walking around the room and not touching or doing their usual gaggy eyeballing each other.  Out in the cemetery, Riley stands in front of a Grim Reaper like statue (wearing a hood) and Buffy gets whacked out of shape that Riley thinks dating Oz is dangerous.  (Which proves to be true shortly).  The next morning Buffy, who is wearing Riley's white dress shirt a la Faith, picks another fight with Riley.  At the end of the show, she tells Riley something about her relationship with Angel (we don't hear what, but find out later that she wasn't exactly into full disclosure.) 

Buffy and the Oz story - Buffy conveniently forgets that Oz was shacking up with his werewolf girlfriend when she's retailling the Willow and Oz story to Riley. 

Spike looks like an Evil Olive.  It's true.  He looked so weird.  Loved the way he played Buffy. 

Oz/Spike a similar journey.  They both have an uncontrollable passion that they travel to a distant country to "cure."  They both return to the woman they love, with differing results.  Could it be that Buffy is waiting for Spike, when Willow didn't wait for Oz? 

Adam - okay why does Adam want the gang to get into the Initiative? 

Xander the All Seeing - Not so much.  He (and every one else) completely miss out on the Willow/Tara relationship.

Posters - When Oz is waiting for Willow in the college hall, there are two interesting posters - one about String Cheese and another about Take Back the Night. 

Nobody has locked Spike out - he comes prancing right in to Giles' apartment and for all of Giles' crabbing, he never gets locked out of there (that we know of). 

Hoodies all around - Willow, Riley, Tara and I think Oz all wear hoodies. 
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
May 25 2010 04:55 am   #2nmcil
Thanks for starting the new episode discussion - was thinking only last night about getting started again - I really enjoy those discussion - 

Great start with your observation on the clothing - I always thought that what the characters wore was like a tributary -bring in visual text. 

It's an interesting contrast this conversation that Buffy has with Riley - in context with her later statements about Riley being the one person, more than anyone else in her life, that she has been open with.  It starts out with the huge omission about her relationship with Angel. 

I don't know what the intent was from the art department, but in the early "Women's Movement" the phrase "take back the night" was extremely significant - it was a metaphor for women being strong and not being victims of fear from physical and mental abuse - it's perfect with the primal fear and primal forces theme of this episode.  

I will watch the episode tonight -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
May 28 2010 05:54 pm   #3nmcil
Had a chance to watch the episode last night - what a pleasure it was to see it again.  AH look probably as beautiful in the episode as she did in the entire series.  I loved the film work in the scenes with  Willow Oz and Tara.  Willow really came across in this episode as a young woman that was starting to understand herself and make real steps toward her maturity - it reminded me of how much Willow lost with her need to control people. 

Love the use of clothing - Willow and Tara both starting out with their clothes showing spring time and the symbols of "growth and life" - their clothing is reversed in the closing scene.  Willow's "life growing flowers" is worn by Tara and Willow wears a lavender variation.   Buffy and Oz are all shown in their opening scenes wearing heavy protective clothing, jackets and coats even a hat, all garments that are to protect against the elements. 

Although this is primarily an episode about the transition of love and the changing of partners with Oz, Willow and Tara, it also had the Buffy-Riley relationship reflected as their parallel story.  Where Oz and Willow find an wonderful and meaningful closure to their love, the contrast of where Buffy and Riley are headed is clearly started. 

The art direction was used so effectively in this episode - Willow/Tara begin with nothing but joy and promise for their future together, Riley/Buffy start out shown as, what looked to me like an old married couple and the first thing they do is argue about  fundamental problems of their lives.   Oz comes in with his protective jacket and then gives the important line about "needing to talk" and Buffy will give her "have to be honest" unfortunately, all the honesty will only come after all the pain and chaos.  Unfortunately for Buffy, while she begins to "talk" with Riley, the honesty is not all there.  I am still puzzled why so many fans think that Buffy-Riley were ever going to work as a long term relationship, IMVHO, the certain failure of their relationship is always a layer of their story.  Even Riley's "I'm an anarchist" is all a "temporary status" for him, his self-identity is so totally wrapped up in his life as a soldier and with the Initiative.  Notice that Riley is shown wearing his normal Initiative clothing when Buffy is shown wearing all that winter protective clothing.

On the posters, all of the posters relate to women and evil symbols - one has mention of "the devil" another of clowns and dancing girls.

Wonderful to see James Marsters'  Spike with Adam - and his scene when he offers to lead them into the Initiative, outstanding Big Bad Manipulator that is being coned himself - Scot's Honor indeed. A great foreshadow from Buffy about honesty and what happens to all of them in "The Yoko Factor"  I loved how Spike really does show his respect for The Slayer in his first scene with Adam.

Beautiful ending to the Willow-Oz love story -  
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
May 28 2010 09:30 pm   #4Spikez_tart
clothing with flowers, etc. - I'm reminded of the white skirt with the green vine and leaves that Buffy was wearing the night Spike attacked the school.  Here Buffy is wearing those gnarly green leather pants.  Ew.

Willow/Tara begin with nothing but joy and promise for their future together - which must be crushed down immediately.  :)  Tara's room is certainly art decoration gone wild.  It's romantic and complicated and interesting.  Not the thing you usually see on tv.

Spike gets tricked - ever the fate of the trickster, and he certainly deserves it. 

I'm an anarchist - huh?  Since when was Riley anything but a by the book guy?  Okay, he had a little moment there saving Oz where he resembled a human, but it didn't last long.  He went running back to the initiative/Army in Restless, then permanently in S5.  His major weakness may be that he really can't stand on his own.  He needs somebody - Army -  Buffy - Sam to tell him where to go and what to do. 




If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?