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BSV Forum - General - Off-Topic
New Season Eight Discussion Thread Now That Last Gleaming Started
My Thoughts of #36:
I'm gonna talk about character interactions, and these are my initial thoughts, very incoherent and messy, I wrote this as I read the issue:
Buffy/Angel:
Angel is Buffy's only equal now on the strength level, fighting together for the safety of others and the world. It seems that Buffy likes it better when her partner is her equal; she enjoys the thrill of the fight as well as having someone by her side who enjoys it just as much. She and Angel are in sync with each other, literally flying together and kicking demon butts.
Angel's jealousy of Spike reveals itself, and he's acting like the 12 year old we saw in Chosen and most of AtS S5, and we saw when Buffy started dating Riley, and we saw when Buffy's friend Ford from LA showed up, and we saw after Buffy's Sexy Dance with Xander. So, that's Angel being his usual petty, jealous self.
Buffy gently tells Angel that Spike saved their lives the last time she'd seen him. That she does trust him. Unlike Angel, she doesn't trust him, but she can't help being in love with him. S1 touched on the illogicality of love. Buffy was supposed to fall in love with the human boy who brought her back to life, yet her heart beats for the dead man who couldn't breathe life into her.
Buffy also doesn't forget Angel's sacrifice. He gave her Twilight, wanted them there together, wanted peace and a life of eternal happiness, but decided to give it up and go back to the fight, the chaos, the pain. Buffy tells Angel that she understands –because she herself wanted it, but not as much as Angel, and it was hard giving it up, and Angel doing that makes her proud of him.
Buffy acts more sympathetic towards Angel than she should, but perhaps that has something to do with the powers they have, the rewards, Twilight, their connection. Something pulls them together, they want it as well, and it's pushing them against their resistance, it's taking their choice even though they want it deep down. I think this force is taking what they want deep down and bringing it to the surface against their will.
Buffy's love for Angel and her forgiving nature are the reason she's giving him a second chance, like she did with all the people in her life in the past. She knows Angel can come back from this a better man, she's been in the mud herself –though less muddy than Angel's- and she came back stronger than ever. She gives Angel a second chance for redemption, because that's who Buffy is, she forgives, she believes in others' ability to make a difference, to change, to become better. Not to mention it's also what Buffy needs: she knows deep down that she can't commit to him with all the mistakes he'd recently done. She needs his redemption as much as he does.
The lovey-dovey Bangel conversation is too over-the-top, reminds me of Xander's POV in The Zeppo, how he sees Bangel. This is actually the real Bangel on the inside brought to the outside, no barriers, no shields, naked for all to see, especially Buffy and Angel. It's not the time or place for that; they forget themselves when they're together, feelings and emotions bare, the hard façade they wear in front of others isn't there when they're together. And it's half of Twilight's doing.
Buffy asks Angel to go, because while she understands and forgives, the others don't and can't. And Angel can't blame them. What he had done was one of the biggest betrayals to them all. And he deserves to be sent away to the beginning point: the first episode of AtS S1.
About Buffy's "That's beneath you, baby," that's obviously Buffy being snarky to Angel's "Is that all you want from him?" Right now, Buffy is fed up with the pointless jealousy; she wants to fix their mess. Enough with Miss Nice Girl.
Buffy/Spike:
When Buffy goes into the ship, it's all about business. I'm sensing some hurt and anger on her part. Spike had come back years ago and never tried to contact her, she doesn't understand why, it shows in the way she glares at him, the way she grabs his shoulder and roughly turns him around. With a sarcastic raise of her eyebrow, she thanks him for saving their lives, and then talks about not contacting him because she was busy –which can probably be a shot at him not contacting her because <i>he</i> was busy. She cuts him off when he wants to say you're welcome because she is obviously mad at him. She reminds him that they've got an apocalypse to take care of, doesn't wanna hear him joke or snark or use dirty British words she doesn't understand.
On the other hand, Spike is also hurt and angry –not to mention disappointed at her- for having magical, space sex with Angel. He can't help but throw cheap remarks at her, and she calls him on it "Snark", and then Spike tells her that she can't trust Angel. I think at the same time, Spike also feels betrayed, hurt and let down by Angel. Seems all his idols –if you'd call Angel one- sank so low.
Spike later pulls himself together and gets down to business, reminding Buffy of what she'd done, what she'd started, what her irresponsible actions caused. Buffy obviously looks ashamed, hugging herself, unable to look him in the eyes. Spike lays it all on her, doesn't choose his words carefully, so upset with her, and it all hurts Buffy: the damage she caused, Spike's disappointment in her, her friends' fear and wary. Her expression as she looks away from Spike, filled with sorrow and guilt, her eyes as she looks back at him: shocked, upset, teary. Guilt is tearing her apart.
Buffy is back. And Spike brought her back.
Xander/Spike:
The way Xander looks at Spike can be read as "I don't trust you" or "You better have useful info" or "you're so sexy I wanna kill myself." Spike is looking at someone and I want it to be Xander –them having sexy, frowny eye contact is probably the only Spander moment I'll ever get in S8.
Willow/Buffy and Willow/Angel:
Willow is obviously so angry at Angel, yet she's sympathetic and comforting with Buffy. Angel's mistakes are greater than Buffy's, and also, Buffy is her best friend, Willow had been there through Buffy's pain and isolation –didn't see Angel's. And this time it's not black and white, Willow can't blame Angel's insanity on his soul anymore. This is gray area, and Willow more than anyone knows what it's like to be insane. She's not gonna excuse Angel because she's been there.
Xander/Dawn:
They're adorable all right, but I can't wait until we explore this ship. The tension in the Buffy/Spike scene is far more fun and interesting IMO than the cuteness of Xander/Dawn –I want issues, tension, serious talks. C'mon, Xander and Dawn, become interesting.
I'm gonna talk about character interactions, and these are my initial thoughts, very incoherent and messy, I wrote this as I read the issue:
Buffy/Angel:
Angel is Buffy's only equal now on the strength level, fighting together for the safety of others and the world. It seems that Buffy likes it better when her partner is her equal; she enjoys the thrill of the fight as well as having someone by her side who enjoys it just as much. She and Angel are in sync with each other, literally flying together and kicking demon butts.
Angel's jealousy of Spike reveals itself, and he's acting like the 12 year old we saw in Chosen and most of AtS S5, and we saw when Buffy started dating Riley, and we saw when Buffy's friend Ford from LA showed up, and we saw after Buffy's Sexy Dance with Xander. So, that's Angel being his usual petty, jealous self.
Buffy gently tells Angel that Spike saved their lives the last time she'd seen him. That she does trust him. Unlike Angel, she doesn't trust him, but she can't help being in love with him. S1 touched on the illogicality of love. Buffy was supposed to fall in love with the human boy who brought her back to life, yet her heart beats for the dead man who couldn't breathe life into her.
Buffy also doesn't forget Angel's sacrifice. He gave her Twilight, wanted them there together, wanted peace and a life of eternal happiness, but decided to give it up and go back to the fight, the chaos, the pain. Buffy tells Angel that she understands –because she herself wanted it, but not as much as Angel, and it was hard giving it up, and Angel doing that makes her proud of him.
Buffy acts more sympathetic towards Angel than she should, but perhaps that has something to do with the powers they have, the rewards, Twilight, their connection. Something pulls them together, they want it as well, and it's pushing them against their resistance, it's taking their choice even though they want it deep down. I think this force is taking what they want deep down and bringing it to the surface against their will.
Buffy's love for Angel and her forgiving nature are the reason she's giving him a second chance, like she did with all the people in her life in the past. She knows Angel can come back from this a better man, she's been in the mud herself –though less muddy than Angel's- and she came back stronger than ever. She gives Angel a second chance for redemption, because that's who Buffy is, she forgives, she believes in others' ability to make a difference, to change, to become better. Not to mention it's also what Buffy needs: she knows deep down that she can't commit to him with all the mistakes he'd recently done. She needs his redemption as much as he does.
The lovey-dovey Bangel conversation is too over-the-top, reminds me of Xander's POV in The Zeppo, how he sees Bangel. This is actually the real Bangel on the inside brought to the outside, no barriers, no shields, naked for all to see, especially Buffy and Angel. It's not the time or place for that; they forget themselves when they're together, feelings and emotions bare, the hard façade they wear in front of others isn't there when they're together. And it's half of Twilight's doing.
Buffy asks Angel to go, because while she understands and forgives, the others don't and can't. And Angel can't blame them. What he had done was one of the biggest betrayals to them all. And he deserves to be sent away to the beginning point: the first episode of AtS S1.
About Buffy's "That's beneath you, baby," that's obviously Buffy being snarky to Angel's "Is that all you want from him?" Right now, Buffy is fed up with the pointless jealousy; she wants to fix their mess. Enough with Miss Nice Girl.
Buffy/Spike:
When Buffy goes into the ship, it's all about business. I'm sensing some hurt and anger on her part. Spike had come back years ago and never tried to contact her, she doesn't understand why, it shows in the way she glares at him, the way she grabs his shoulder and roughly turns him around. With a sarcastic raise of her eyebrow, she thanks him for saving their lives, and then talks about not contacting him because she was busy –which can probably be a shot at him not contacting her because <i>he</i> was busy. She cuts him off when he wants to say you're welcome because she is obviously mad at him. She reminds him that they've got an apocalypse to take care of, doesn't wanna hear him joke or snark or use dirty British words she doesn't understand.
On the other hand, Spike is also hurt and angry –not to mention disappointed at her- for having magical, space sex with Angel. He can't help but throw cheap remarks at her, and she calls him on it "Snark", and then Spike tells her that she can't trust Angel. I think at the same time, Spike also feels betrayed, hurt and let down by Angel. Seems all his idols –if you'd call Angel one- sank so low.
Spike later pulls himself together and gets down to business, reminding Buffy of what she'd done, what she'd started, what her irresponsible actions caused. Buffy obviously looks ashamed, hugging herself, unable to look him in the eyes. Spike lays it all on her, doesn't choose his words carefully, so upset with her, and it all hurts Buffy: the damage she caused, Spike's disappointment in her, her friends' fear and wary. Her expression as she looks away from Spike, filled with sorrow and guilt, her eyes as she looks back at him: shocked, upset, teary. Guilt is tearing her apart.
Buffy is back. And Spike brought her back.
Xander/Spike:
The way Xander looks at Spike can be read as "I don't trust you" or "You better have useful info" or "you're so sexy I wanna kill myself." Spike is looking at someone and I want it to be Xander –them having sexy, frowny eye contact is probably the only Spander moment I'll ever get in S8.
Willow/Buffy and Willow/Angel:
Willow is obviously so angry at Angel, yet she's sympathetic and comforting with Buffy. Angel's mistakes are greater than Buffy's, and also, Buffy is her best friend, Willow had been there through Buffy's pain and isolation –didn't see Angel's. And this time it's not black and white, Willow can't blame Angel's insanity on his soul anymore. This is gray area, and Willow more than anyone knows what it's like to be insane. She's not gonna excuse Angel because she's been there.
Xander/Dawn:
They're adorable all right, but I can't wait until we explore this ship. The tension in the Buffy/Spike scene is far more fun and interesting IMO than the cuteness of Xander/Dawn –I want issues, tension, serious talks. C'mon, Xander and Dawn, become interesting.
Sep 04 2010 05:21 pm #2SpaceLord
Guest
This is so far beyond help it's not even funny any more, what a piece of shit. Yes Angel you killed a lot of people but that's ok cause I luv u, feel me barf all over that. Too bad they are already planning a S9 cause this deserves to be dead and buried already, they should just leave it to the fanfic writers cause they can at least come up with stories that are not total and utter crap.
LOL -
My first response on hearing Buffy call Angel baby was thinking how much I absolutely hate this in any FF work. There's a lot of poking fun in these comic books.
My first response on hearing Buffy call Angel baby was thinking how much I absolutely hate this in any FF work. There's a lot of poking fun in these comic books.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
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