I was wondering if there was ever a time during the "Bangel" years where Buffy and Angel sparred, I mean really, no holds barred.  Because I know towards the end of season three they sort of "played" at sparring, but it wasn't really "no holds barred" it was more gentle, and like foreplay.  I want to know if they ever "fought" together full out when he was Angel, and if so, when, so I can watch the scene and check it.

Now I could be wrong cause I haven't seen this in awhile, but check out in season one, where Darla almost kills Joyce, Buffy believes it's Angel who's guilty, and he let's her think that.  I think they have a confrontation until Darla shows up with a gun, or something like that.  Other than that, the only other time where she challenged him (though he didn't respond) was when she dared him to kick her ass in "When She Was Bad."

Ok cool.  I just needed to make sure.  And I don't consider that Darla ep as "counting" since they weren't together then, he was just another vampire and she had a little crush on him and kissed him but it hadn't really turned into anything yet.  I just needed to make sure because some dialogue I'm planning on putting in Angelus' mouth won't make sense if i'm wrong about this.

The "spirit" of it is true even if the facts aren't, but I was wanting to make sure the facts were too.

If Scarlet Ibis is right about that one scene, then that would definitly be the only time. And even in that scene I seriously doubt that it was really an all out fight. That's just not something that would have fit in with the kind of realtionship they had, or with Angel's character. Unlike Spike, he wasn't someone who liked to rile people up, and it seemed always very important to him to keep his temper. It's unclear whether that was because he didn't trust himself should he ever really lose his temper, or if he feard others wouldn't trust him anymore. And as much as I don't like him, I have to admit that I can't really see 16 year old Buffy going for it either. She was completely into that brooding, sensitive crap; having him really punch her would probably have destroyed her teenage-illusions.

So yeah, that's in case that fight really happened, but as far as I remember there was never any real sparring - at all. The tusseling and the tai-chi (that the word) stuff in s3 was the closest they ever got.

Right, I thought that was probably the case Dia, and I think you're right about Angel's motivations.  I think Buffy's motivations for never doing anything like that with him was that she didn't want him to see any part of her that wasn't "sweetness and light"  Thought he might judge her. 

Maybe Buffy didn't want to see any part of Angel that wasn't sweetness and light, either.  Doesn't Buffy fight with Angel a little the first time they meet.  He's been stalking her and she does a trapeze act or something?

I'm not sure if that's true about not wanting to see a part of him that isn't sweetness and light.  Maybe...but the way I figured it, Buffy was drawn to Angel 'because' he was kind of dark.

Lots of nice girls like bad boys and I think Buffy was one of them.

Yeah they fight, kind of, but it's before they are really "together" It's when she's decided he's just another vampire she has to slay, so it wouldn't really count I don't think in her fears of how he might perceive her.

No, they never sparred in the true sense of the word. If they did anything in an exercise-type way, it was Tai Chi. Angel did more sparring/training with Cordelia than he ever did with Buffy.

CM

Ok that's what I thought.  Thanks Caro!