If it sounds like I'm ranting, please excuse my maleness and I'll promptly shut up, but it kinda seems like the reviewers outside of BSV are way into the whole Fluffy Spuffy is the only way to be. I posted a new fic today at a certain website in which Spike loses his chip in crush and Buffy doesn't find out until the next day. Naturally violence ensues  on Buffy's behalf and Spike "dies". I've had multiple anger reviewers complain about how it's a Spuffy site and I shouldn't be allowed to post fics in which there is no happy ending or fics with Spike or Buffy dying in it. Personally I'm a guy and while I can enjoy fluffy Spuffy every once in a while, I kinda like my Spuffy dark, no creamer. IE; I love DoS' work as well as Scarlet Ibis, LostBoy, JamesMFfan, and many others. I just think that if a fic has numerous warnings about the fic itself in it's summary and disclaimer and people read it anyway, there's no reason to complain bout it later.

 I'm right there with you.  If you're looking for fluff, and see "rape, character death,"etc. in the summary or warnings section... Then why are you reading it?  Or if you're curious and you read it, and it gets to that moment of character death, rape, slash or whatever, then why be pissed off about it, and send a not so nice review to the author (not even necessarily flames, but the "I can't take this story anymore!" kinda deal)?  I read a fic once where Buffy dies, and the fic didn't mention character death, so it was a shock.  However, I still commended the author on an excellent story, and I didn't get a bee in my bonnet about it.

Yea, I saw the review that someone left for Work in Progress. Honestly as a guy m/m rape kinda bothers me, but in WIP Riley had it coming. From the first chapter I knew it was gonna be somewhat dark and different, but i'm going to keep reading because it's great. And the worst part of the situation Scarlet, is that in the Author's Note, it clearly says that there is a sequel, and two, I never showed Spike dying and i got like ten evil reviewers in like half and hour talking about how I shouldn't be allowed to post on the site anymore.

First, thank you ;) And second...omg... what site was this?  And were they mostly anon reviewers, cause I know that sometimes, someone is so desperate to make a point, that they'll review more than once to make *their* point.  I'm sorry that happened to you. 

And seriously- both Buffy and Spike have died in canon... what's the big?

Its over at the Spuffy Realm, the hookupzone.net

They seriously getting their knickers in a twist over this fic. Honestly I ain't going to sweat it, they want to ban me from the site. Ha! And you're welcome Scarlet Ibis.

Hey, if they aren't a mod, they can't do s&%# about it, so mos def no worries :D

While I was reading this thread, I knew it was SR. They are all for the fluffy Spuffy 100% of the time. They cant stand dark stuff. For example, my fic which isn't even dark. but they are working their way into a romantic relationship, I get reviews like "Great chapter, but I want more spuffy, " or "This is good, but can you pleeeeeease get spike and Buffy together now," blah blah blah. I like dark just as much as I like fluff, so try not to let it bother you to much. But I know it can get hard when so many are giving you negative reviews.

:D I aint going to let it get to me. They are so gonna Dark Reflections as it progresses then. Thanks though.

I knew it was SR too, but strangely enough, WIP hasn't been criticized there... But for some reason, a lot (okay, mostly one- I went to double check. "Confused" was their name.  Lovely) of SR readers were way confused at one fic I told (mostly) backwards from the first chapter, though I kept repeatedly mentioning I was working my way backwards...

Hey- have you guys posted on aff.net?  Although, it feels like the number of readers of there have gone down (I think they had a lot of technical difficulties at one point)...  Or even ff.net?

no i've never been on aff.net

Don't let the reviews get you down, daniel. I had a feeling the site was SR too just by the way you described it. My fics are never happy (but perhaps hopeful?) and always angst-filled. As a result, my work really hasn't gotten the same reception at SR that it has elsewhere. I gage this also in that I have no regular reviewers there, which means I doubt there's much of an audience for it. I stopped posting my stuff there a fic ir two ago.

If you're interested in posting outside of BSV (which I still think has some of the best reviewers, btw), you might want to try LJ comms. There is a whole ring of "darker" comms to highlight those edgey stories. I bet people would lap up your work at places like darker_spike.

SR is definitely more romance oriented. On SR the first part of FtTP is everyone's favorite, because of all the romance, and I did lose a few readers when the fic became darker in tone. However, most of my reviewers there have been very respectful and very positive about it. Although I did have a bit of a rant a while back about a few people (not all from SR) who kept pressing me to skip ahead to Part III. :P

That being said ... if you're going to post your fics on a more romance oriented archive and your fic is darker and not romantic ... then you're going to have to expect a certain amount of backlash. As long as they are merely telling you the fic isn't their cup of tea -- and respectfully explaining why -- then there's no need to be upset. But the people who flame a fic or author -- or try to dictate to the author in what direction they feel the story *should* be going -- are just a pain in the neck. Ignore what they have to say, or delete it, but don't let it get your down. And don't dismiss SR altogether ... there are some truly great people there and I really think it's unfortunate that there seems to be such animosity toward that site by the people on this one. Different strokes for different folks and all that ... not everyone likes fluff and not everyone likes dark. :)

I also knew it was SR...isn't that funny how we all knew without being told? I personally have gotten tons of flames and just not-so-nice reviews over there for a lot of my fics...it seems like they just want Spuffy sex, *NOW* please :P with no exceptions....

Of course, there are a lot of nice reviewers over there too, and it's for their sake that I keep posting there, though I must admit I've occasionally considered abandoning that site completely due to the comments I've gotten there... *sigh*

Personally, I feel that if there is even a listing in the warnings for certain topics (character death, rape, etc.) then it shouldn't be a problem if a fic contains those things, as long as the appropriate warning is used. A reader can easily avoid things they don't want to read by looking at the warnings.

Bottom line is, it's your fic. You can't write it just to please someone else, you know? You should be happy with it first and foremost, before anybody else. If they don't like it, they can read something else. That's been my personal policy on my writing for a long time, and I've found that most of my readers have stuck with me, no matter how dark the stories get :P

*hugs*

DoS

Man, everybody seem to have it in for SR except for me.  I think maybe its cause I got my start there.  Except for a few here and there, I've gotten a really positive response from that readership.  And there's been zero sex in my fic so far.  Then again, maybe I'm just too new to see it.

I had always liked SR. I even posted up a really dark fic called Dark Reflections there, and no one was really bothered by it even though i prolly used every warning possible. With a Taste of Sin, it was wierd, like everybody called me a piece of s*** author who should be banned from the site because Buffy left Spike to die at the end of it. I used every warning possible for it and they were literally posting up multiple reviews to keep it up like a frigging message board or something. one of the reviewers was like "This is not Spuffy, I was hoping for a happy ending , not this dark twisted s***" and I'm like slow your role, the Author's note has violence and charachter death, why complain later if you knew it was coming. Hopefully when i post taste of sin of BSV, it'll will be betterly recieved. If they hated that, they will so hate me when I come out with the next couple of chapters for Dark Reflections. IDK, they're all, let's kill Warren, but Buffy beating up Spike is bad...

Lol. Thanks guys. :D

oh i have no problem with sr, i get mostly awesome reviews from there, lol. even my i guess you can say dark humor (976- Evil) got positive reviews, but like DoS said, they are more with fluff and romance and if your fic doesn't have it then you'll get equal amount of flames and posititive reviews.

Scarlet, I have posted over at aff.net and ff.net my spuffy and the csi one that I'm working on, and i have gotten good reviews from both. i just need to remember to actually post over then when i update every other place, lol.

to be honest [which i do try to be] i do think that when reading fluffy spuffy i do sometimes find it predictable. im not saying its a bad quality but you know when you get that feeling like 'well now they are gonna live happily ever after into the sunset [or moonlight whatever]' to me its just a bit like hmm well maybe angst would have been a litlle less predictable

this one fic i read, although for the life of me i cant remember the name or the author, was when Buffy was badly burnt, became depressed then Spike turned up. i was expecting Spike being her knight in duster armour and he was but for only a while if i remember rightly she commited sucide at the end it was so angsty and made me cry but it was one of the best fics i have ever read [btw if neone knows what one i am describing could they name it for me ta!]

so basically i love both n i dont think i ever have or ever will slate a fic for being angsty

Madcowx--It's 'Scars' by JamesMFan. Very good fic.

ta Always_jbj!!

I never got around to finishing "scars" She killed herself at the end?  Damn.  I wanted them together, but in a dark way.  I like it when they end up together, it doesn't have to be fluffy together, it doesn't even have to be entirely consensual, but I like them together.

I don't care for it when one of them dies, and so I like that "character death" warning right up front, unless of course one of them dies and they come back, cause we all know in the buffyverse death doesn't necessarily mean death lol.

SR isn't that bad all the time.  Most of the people over there were pretty receptive to FA even though it's very dark, of course I warned up the butt just like here and told them if they read it in spite of my warnings and then bitch I'm just going to laugh.  A few people couldn't handle it, but that's to be expected.

I've always thought that sites with Spike/Buffy stories were shipper stories, not just..."spike and buffy are both in this fic"  And so that could be why people want them together at the end.  Otherwise wouldn't it be a Gen Fic with Spike and Buffy both in it and interacting? 

To me even Spuffy where they are "just friends" (this is more common with Spawn fic) is pushing the boundary of "Spuffy" so when they don't end up together, no matter what form that takes, to me personally, it's not spuffy, it's not spike/buffy fic, it's just fic they both happen to be in prominently.  I mean if there was a fic with buffy and xander predominantly, and they interacted but they weren't really friends and they didn't end up together, I wouldn't consider it Bander.  I'd consider it gen fic with xander and buffy in it.  Sorry about that soap box.

I also don't think "together at the end" necessarily means fluffy, because I'm not a big fan of "happyverse fics"  I like my fic dark but I like a payoff at the end.

Hee, we all knew which site he was talking about, didn't we?  I've received a lot of very nice reviews at SR, and some thoughtful ones, too - but I know when I post that the ones that are going to pull the reviewers and readers are the fluffy, Spuffy ones with lots of smut.  It doesn't mean that there are not readers there who appreciate a story with a bit more depth to it,  but that's not what the majority of the readers are on the site for.  It is a shipper site.  I wouldn't bother posting anything there that wasn't very Spike/Buffy together stuff.  They just, mostly, don't want to be bothered reading anything else - even if it is periferally about them.

To me, having one or the other of them die at the end of a fic doesn't make it non-Spuffy, if they've been the focus - but I would expect to get a lot of static about there.

And, yes, Scars is a wonderful story.  The ending was perfect.