I'm definitely attending this Slayathon event coming up Saturday in Chicago, and will try to participate in the Buffy question challenge (or whatever it's called).  So, in order to prepare, not only will I begin my own marathon beforehand, but, I request that you guys who feel that you have a hard, obscure canon question to please ask me, and see if I can answer it.

Anyone game?  If so, fire away.

:D

Okay, apparently not.

In that case, does anyone know of a site where there's a BtVS survey or something like that?

Hey Scarlett, I didn't see this when you first posted.  Not sure how obscure these are, but here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Who is the first recurring character to appear in BtVS? 

2. How does Buffy goad the mayor-demon into chasing her into the highschool?

3. Who appears in the last shot of the opening credits in season 6?  What episode is that shot from?

4. Which play by Shakespeare do Spike and Giles refer to in The Gift?

5.  What music is playing during Angel's torture session in In the Dark?

Now I'm off to the dentist.  Sigh.

Hey Maggie :D

Thanks for posting.

Okay...

1. Hmm, that's hard to say- do you mean regular as in they were supposed to die, cause then I'd say Spike.  Or do you mean something more along the lines of Jonathan Levinson?

2. Buffy goads ascension Mayor by using Faith's knife that still has her blood on it, and leads him to the bomb infested library.

3. Based on my memory, the last shot is the one used from s2 when they go to destroy The Judge, and they're coming down the school hallway (so that'd be "Surprise").  Gosh, I could be wrong... I suck at this.

4. I never heard of the play, but I do remember the quote- "We few, we happy few."

"We band of buggered." 

I'll have to look that one up...  Okay, it's Shakespeare- Henry V

5.  I think I remember Spike referring to it as Bach or Beethoven?  But it's really Symphony 41 by Motzart.

*sigh*

So, how'd I do?  And, sorry about the dentist- that sucks.  Especially the prices...

For question #1, I'm thinking possibly Harmony.  Isn't she hanging with Cordy in the first couple of episodes?

That's quite possible, though honestly, I don't really remember actually seeing her till "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered."

I'm no real expert.

(hangs head in shame)

Hey Scarlett,

Survived dentist, but am now poor (no dental insurance!!!).

1. More along the lines of Harmony or Jonathan, though its neither of them.  Think about the first episode.  Harmony might well be in the first episode -- but this character appears before that.

2. I'd not have known that one if I hadn't just seen the episode two nights ago.  Good for you. 

3. You missed this one.  The last shot of the credits in season 6 is not Buffy, actually.  That's a pretty big hint.

4. Go Henry V!!  (I love that Spike knows that).  (The real line is "we band of brothers" -- love Spike's twist on it.)

5. Spike refers to it as Brahms, but it is Mozart.  But given #4 I sort of wonder if he isn't feigning ignorance.  (I just watched this eppy last night!)

Let me know if you want answers to #1 and #3!

1.  My guess would be Darla- I think I heard something along those lines, or it could just be some sort of residual info cause she was the first person they tested the vamp make up on.  If not Darla, then...  I'm fairly certain Joyce was supposed to have a recurring role...  My final guess is Darla- am I right?

3.  It's not a group shot of them coming down the hall?  Damn it... Do you mean who the camera ends on?  Is it Xander bringing up the rear?  That's my final guess.  Score me!

1.  Darla!  She even has the opening line:  "Are you sure this is a good idea?"

2.  It's the shot of the Buffybot from when she faces down Glory in The Gift.

More questions (if you want):

1.   Who's Dr. Gull?

2.  What sort of cookies did Willow bake at the end of Something Blue?

3.  What character appears in the last shot of the opening credits in season 7?  From what episode?

Aha!  That was my gut instinct guess, and I totally ignored it!  Oh, and the bot... damn, now I remember, lol.

1. Dr. Gull is Anne's nurse.

2.  Chocolate chip- Willow pretends it's oatmeal to Giles to make sure of his seeing abilities (though why she'd think he couldn't smell them is beyond me...)

3. damn you and these credit questions... too bad its not from s5, cause I'm watching that now.  Um, let me guess...  Well, obviously it's Buffy (I doubt it's the bot twice), and from episode... something something in s6?  Perhaps when she's facing off against Willow in "Two to Go." I won't get it, but I'll go "doh" once you tell me ;)

1.  Well, her doctor actually.  I've read that this is a name of an actual physician in London in 1880 -- one who was somehow associated with Jack the Ripper.

2.  Excellent!  (I'd have said oatmeal, but I'd have been wrong!)

3.  No more credit questions, I promise!  The answer to this is also not Buffy.  In this case it's the First (in Buffy form).  From the end of Lessons, I'm pretty sure.  (I think the fact that Buffy ceases to be the closing shot of the credits at the end of season 5 is significant.  Cause I think that's a signal that she's not *really* the hero any more.)

I'll try to think of more if you are game!  But I have to run off now.  Oh -- but here's an IMPORTANT trivia question:

***1***  What were Buffy's last four words of the series?

OMG- this is why I need to sleep... I totally meant Dr. I mean hello- Dr. was in the question...

3.  You're so right... it's when The First says "It's about power."  And you're right, I think that does sorta strip the whole hero status, or making it final.  Why wouldn't it end on her character those last two seasons?  Who takes the biggest, most significant journey? Spike.  Who stops the apocalypse?  Spike.  And seriously, going down into the mouth of hell to fight uber vamps one on one is stupid.  Couldn't they have just thrown a huge bomb down there?  Sorry... rant over ;)

And of course I'm game!!

Her last four words, eh?  Easy breezy- "I love you," and "Spike."  Funny how her last word is Spike, and how he pretty much saves them all with his death... huh.

And here's something interesting I noticed- in "The Real Me," after Spike says something to Riley about him being inadequate in "Buffy v. Dracula," Buffy asks Riley if he's mad at her, and his response is "no, but I'm happily planning your death" or something like that.  Very odd response... Sounds like something Spike would say.

Maggie- where ya been?

actually i think harmony was the recurring character, as she was in the pilot, (in which buffy was brunette), making her not only the first re-curring character, but the only one who was in it from start to finish too- she was in the first episode of buffy and the last of angel.

I've got a new canon question that I don't even know if the show has an answer. Still, if it does, I'd like to keep the facts straight. The only exception I have to the idea of following canon is when the story is meant to go AU, making up a history for Spike because we don't get too many details in canon, and changing William's last name because "Pratt" is just so wrong for him. I trust Joss was making a joke.

So, my question is:  What is written on Joyce's headstone? and how old was she? I can't even remember her age, let alone the actual birthday or even just the years written on the tombstone. Do we even get a shot of the words on it in the graveyard in "Forever"? If anyone knows, it'd be a help before I make something up totally wrong.

Scarlet Ibis, I have sort of a question, don't think it's hard though. Just tested it on my sis who's as much a Buffy buff as me, and she couldn't answer, so I hope it helps. Which three actors made double appearances on BTVS and AtS (well one of them), the second time as a different character than the first?

XXX

Oops, sorry, it's actually a lot more than the three I remembered:p

Yeah, Joss tended to reuse the actors he liked.  I know the girl who played Halfrek/Cicily was one; the guy who played the psychology student in "conversations with dead things" was Knox on AtS, and I think he was somebody else on Buffy in a much earlier season, but I can't think who he played ATM. Umm...there are more but my brain is going dead...

I think he was the same guy that walked with her through campus in the episode with the vampiress that stole her umbrella-award (can't ever remember episodes' names!) Andrew also played a vampire in Harmony's gang, although he was in vamp-face all the time. Them and Cecily are the ones I remembered, but there were more. The guy that played the Judge was in Season 1 as Luke, and Rack was also Kralik, the insane vampire Buffy faced in cruciamentum (I've probably misspelled this). I think The Master also had another role, but can't remember who it was.

Yeah, the Buffy/Angel shows were alot like "Law & Order" in that regard :P  Actually, the guy who played Rack was on SVU--as a cult leader/pedophilic murderer, of all things.  And, you guys pretty much named the only ones that I'm aware of...

Izzy--the date was 1953 or 55...You get a perfect shot of the headstone is Buffy's head in the second to last ep in s5 (I know it's not "Spiral," and I can't recall the name :(  )  It's the scene where Buffy's wearing black, and Willow trails her to her mom's room, which is either before or after she "kills" Dawn through suffocation.

Joyce Summers
1958-2001

Screencap here: http://www.screencap-paradise.com/caps/thumbnails.php?album=103&page=7

The guy who played D'Hoffryn was on both shows...actually, he might be one of them who was on Firefly, as well, besides Jonathan Woodward (Holden/Knox).

You guys have missed one of Joss' "hat tricks." Yes, the guy who played D'Hoffryn, and the guy who played Knox (Jonathan Woodward) did all three series, but so did the creepy guy in "Anne" who recruited runaways to be slaves in his hell dimension (He was the Alliance mole in the Firefly pilot "Serenity" and the guy who tried to eat Doyle's brains in the Ats Ssn 1 ep "The Bachelor Party." )

And I just realized anew what an utter and complete geek I am.

Dr Gull was the physician to the family of Queen Victoria (and, yes, some said he was Jack the Ripper covering up for one of the Roayal princes in a grand conspiracy theory).  The use of his name as Anne's doctor seems to imply social status for William and Anne however as not just anyone would have use of his services.

Kathleen

There's a guy...he's really tall, bald headed guy, who was in s5 of Buffy--the ep where she finds the glowy orb that repels Glory.  He's the vampire she's fighting when that security guard runs into her. Anyway, he was in a couple of eps of Angel--one in particular where Cordelia's kidnapped (in s1) for her seer eyes.  Oh--and he's been in all of the "Ocean's" movies (one scene in particular is when he's pretending to beat up George Clooney).  I got to meet him at one of the cons, and he is an incredibly nice guy.

Would you happen to know his name, hon?

Bruiser's name is Scott L. Schwartz and he plays a bad guy pretty often.

This question has been bothering me for a while but I can't find a specific answer. A bunch of people make guesses and some share the same idea, so they assume it's right.

What month was is that Buffy jumped from the tower?  147 days is nearly five months or around there, so what month would it be that she came back? I wonder because I don't know when Dawn was in school during the summer and when the summer break would have started and ended. Did she miss school because of Buffy dying, or did she need to go to summer school because she missed so much time while Joyce was sick? In "Afterlife", someone asks about Dawn getting to school okay and later Buffy makes her younger sister a bagged lunch, so I know she's in school around the time Buffy is resurrected.

I can probably come up with details, but it would be nice to know the dates and when Dawn would probably be out of school. If anyone knows, please post.

It might depend on what month Dawn starts school, 'cause some start in August and other's September. So maybe around April or May.

CM--yeah, he's Scott L. Schwartz, and he was a the Biker Vamp in "No Place Like Home," and a demon in "Living Conditions."  Also, a bodyguard in "Parting Gifts" on Angel.

And Izzy, well, Dawn was already in school pre-resurrection, and the dates of the show airing are the same as the show itself (so the show leads me to believe, some of the time, like in "Conversations with Dead People"). She takes a break for a few days when Buffy comes back, and Buffy makes some comment on it  in "Afterlife" at the end about her going back to school or something.

"The Gift" aired May 22nd. Most schools don't let out until at least the beginning of June, so I'd assume she was still in school when Buffy died. 

"Bargaining" aired Oct. 2nd - which seems a little late for the Buffybot to be attending a "Parent Teacher Day." Those types of things usually happened mid-September at my school, but maybe it's different in CA. Either way, Dawn would definitely be back in school at that point (she would've started late August/early September).

"Afterlife" aired Oct. 9th, and if you're curious, that's 140 days after May 22nd, if I counted right. So, maybe not the exact dates, but I'd estimate that Buffy died around mid-May and came back around early October.

Edited - another thing to consider. When Glory tears the wall off Willow and Tara's dorm room in "Tough Love," there are still a lot of students in the dorm and around campus, which implies that classes are still in session - or at least that students haven't finished their final exams. Most colleges are finished by early to mid-May, which would put that episode prior to that ("Tough Love" aired May 1st). Since the events of the last few episodes only span a couple days, that would put Buffy's death even earlier than the air date for "The Gift."

Thanks for the replies! I like coming up with ideas for my story scenarios, but I worry some reader who knows a fact I missed would get thrown off and maybe even doubt my deep-seated devotion (see: obsession).:stalker:

Thanks to you all!

am man cant believe ive missed this, wasnt Rack alsow that vamp guy when buffy was Chrysanthemum'd in season 3?

Yes, Rack is Kralik.

In CA, public school starts the day after Labor Day in Sept., and ends mid-June, even as late as in the 20s of the month. Parent-Teacher Days are somewhere between two weeks after school started, and the first quarter progress report. All depends on how crowded the school is and the curriculum schedule, since they want to give the teachers time to actually have something to *report* to the parents about their kids. 

We have Homecoming some time in October, Winter Formal in Jan-Feb, Sadie Hawkins' in March-April, and Prom in May.

Some districts were on the year-round schedule to try to deal with overcrowding, but ended up finding that their students were falling behind their grade levels because of the odd and frequent breaks. It was very hard for teachers to carry out a lesson plan when they had to review again every time the kids had time off.

Oh, Caro Mio, you made my day.  Finally, someone with something bad to say about all-year schools!  I teach, and there's a movement in my state trying to get the all-year schedule.  *shudders*

All these questions didn't occur to me until after I tried to outline a fic I wanted to write. I think I can be forgiven a little creative license, but not just ignoring canon facts. I don't know where I heard it, but I was so sure Dawn was fourteen in Season Five. That would make her about fourteen-fifteen during the summer and in Season Six. But fourteen year olds are generally in ninth grade in high school. I thought Dawn was just starting high school in Season Seven, but maybe that was just going to Sunnydale High School.:evil:  

In Season Five and Six is Dawn in middle school or high school? What is her exact age? A late birthday or a move to a different school could get her held back, but I'm not sure of the facts.

The scene in "The Body" where Dawn is worrying about a mean girl and a cute boy in her art class makes me think of junior high but I don't know and I can't find confirmation anywhere.

Dawn, if I'm not mistaken, is fourteen when we first meet her, and in eighth grade.  Perhaps she was in some type of junior high school, which I'm not familiar with at all.  Then, by season seven, she's in the new "Sunnydale High," so perhaps the building of the new school also had something to do with it.

Many, if not most, eighth graders in my school are fourteen, at least by the end of the year. Seems old to me, but that seems to be the current thinking - that it is better to start children later than too early.

Dawn's grade level is inconsistent. She is definitely fourteen in season five. In "Real Me," Dawn says, "Babysitter? I'm fourteen. I'm old enough to be a babysitter!"

In "Tough Love," she also implies that she's in 9th grade: "The monks put grades K-8 in my head. Can't we just wait and see if they drop 9th in there, too?"

So, she should be in high school, but some districts group grades 7-9 as junior high, and high school is only grades 10-12. This seems to be the case here, since in "Checkpoint," Willow says that Dawn is in junior high.

However, in "All the Way," when her vampire date asks if she's a sophomore (which she logically should be, given that she's fifteen) Dawn replies, "I wish," and he says, "Ah, freshman."

I guess it's possible that Dawn missed so much school in season 5 that she had to repeat 9th grade, but if that happened, I think they'd have mentioned it. Also, if 9th grade were in the junior high (as implied by season 5), they wouldn't really call it "freshman" year. 

Basically, the writers screwed up, so I'd go with her being in 9th grade in season 5 and 10th grade in season 6, as that makes the most sense, given her age.

Yeah, I've always put her as a 9th grader in season 5. She looks too old to be in junior high, anyway.

Around here, if it's a 7-9th school, they call it "middle school". Junior highs are 7-8th. There aren't many middle schools left, though. I only knew of one back when I was in high school (grad. in '95). Schools put the cut-off for age at Nov. for each year (my elementary was Nov 5th, so my bf was in the grade below me with a birthday of Nov 22), so that's how you get some "old" kids in your grade that aren't hold-backs - they're technically in the previous birth year, but were too young to start school as a 4-year-old kindergartener.

I imagine she was in summer school after Buffy's death to make up for any classes she might have missed too much of between Joyce and Glory. But Dawn's smart enough that if she just did the work, she should still be a sophomore in S6. I'm pretty sure she was just at another high school while the Sunnydale High was being rebuilt. The pan out shots of SD actually show it to be a fairly wide populated area, so there would be more than one high school, especially if the schools were older buildings and originally built for smaller enrollments. There are only so many portables you can add to a school.

Actually, I think that "let's see if they dropped ninth grade in there too" was referring to her upcoming year--that since the monks fabricated the rest of her school history (though really, she did start eighth on her own, if she was brought to them over the summer), then perhaps ninth grade would already be there, and therefore, no need to see the rest of eigth cause it was already stuffed in her head.  I have no  idea if I worded that correctly, but...if you want to be sure, check the dialogue that preceeds that, and see if it coincides with her being in eighth or ninth grade (I still think she was in eighth, though).

I get what you're trying to say, Scarlet, but I don't think it makes sense. She and Buffy are having a conversation about how she's not doing well in school, and she says it doesn't matter if a Key gets an education. Then there's the line about already having K-8 in her head, so maybe they'll drop ninth grade in there, too. Why would she be referring to the upcoming year when she hasn't even finished the current one yet? Especially when it's the current year that Buffy's upset about.

Also, why would you try to reason that they *didn't* actually put grade 8 in her head, when she plainly says they did? If she'd gone through 8th grade for real, wouldn't she have said they put "K-7" in her head? And if she already had 8th grade in her head when she was created, she wouldn't have needed to take it.

I think the most logical interpretation of that line is that she's in 9th grade in season 5. 

And Caro - in my area, "middle school" is 5-8... because it's the middle four years of your education. "Junior high" would be 7-8 or 7-9. Middle schools are much more common than junior highs. Maybe that's not the way California schools are organized, but remember that not all the writers grew up in California. They may have been drawing on their own education when they classified 9th grade as junior high.

And the cut-off for birthdays was Oct. 1st in my district. Dawn is definitely fourteen by early October ("Real Me" aired Oct. 3rd, although given the "summer" feel of "Buffy vs. Dracula," I think "Real Me" is supposed to be sometime in September), so I think the most likely situation would be that she's in 9th grade, unless she has a birthday just after the cut-off or was held back for some reason.

Yep.

I just shared how it is in SoCal. *Everybody* does it different, I know, as there have been multiple teachers in my family. I try to write authentic to region, so I research - not everyone will or has to do the same. :)

My schools were middle: 6-8 and high: 9-12, but my mother's (in another era and another state) were Jr. High: 7-9 and Sr. high: 10-12. Even though 9th grade was not in the actual high school in my mom's town, it was still often referred to as "freshman year."

I don't know if any of that is applicable to the conversation, but there is this little nugget of an idea: What if Dawn's high school transition was delayed a year or so because Sunnydale didn't have a high school? They could have reorganized the schools to put the ninth and even tenth graders in the middle school/ jr. high for a few years just because they had no high school to send them to.

Also, I seem to remember a reference, sometime around  Lessons to Dawn being the age Buffy was when she was called or when she came to SunnyD. Sorry that's vague. It's a fuzzy memory and I'm too lazy to look it up. Anywho, it always made me think that Dawn started at the new Sunnydale High at the beginning of her sophomore (10th grade) year. And remember: Buffy, with her winter birthday, turned sixteen just before moving to Sunnydale in the middle of her sophomore (10th grade) year.

Actually, Buffy's actual b-day in the first season was false.  We see it as...I think October in the ep with the dead football player (?) on a computer (the one where he's hacking up corpses to make his girlfriend), but later, her birthday is January...something.  I'm sure someone here can supply the actual date.

Oh, but yeah, I do agree that her transition was delayed due to the remodeling of the school.  Clearly the remodeling began after "Doomed," but it would take awhile for the whole project to be complete.  Two and a half years (from that eppy to season seven's "Lessons") seems about right.

I completely and purposefully disregard all of the personal info shown on the computer screen in that ep (think it was "I robot, you Jane") because it's obviously the personal info of movie-Buffy. It has her listed as a senior, born in 79. That matches movie-Buffy, but not series-Buffy. Remember that Joss made her younger when the project moved to the small screen.

I based my comment about her arrival in Sunnydale being shortly after her sixteenth birthday on the fact that her birthday was celebrated somewhere around mid-January to early February in the seasons that mentioned it at all.

She had to have arrived when she was fifteen and not sixteen, cause she turns sixteen that first season (though there's no birthday ep).  Otherwise, she would have turned seventeen in season one, and therefore eighteen in season two.  But that's not the case. 

Buffy is sixteen in "Welcome to the Hellmouth." Joyce says so in the scene when Buffy's getting ready to go to the Bronze for the first time.

She arrives in the middle of the school year in the first season (the series started in March). So, I figure she was called at fifteen, turned sixteen in January of 1997, and then moved to Sunnydale sometime after that. She was sixteen for all of season 1 and the first half of season 2.

There's no birthday ep in season one because the season started after Buffy's birthday. Welcome to the Hellmouth didn't air until March and was obviously intended to follow (at least loosely) the real life calender because, like the other seasons, it ended about the same time as their school year (that time with a spring dance as the secondary story) in Prophecy Girl. Thus, Buffy arrived in Sunnydale shortly after turning 16. The first birthday she actually celebrates in Sunnydale is one of the ones we saw: She turned 17 in Surprise, season 2.

(The extra bonus I have on time line stuff is that the Scoobies were my age. They graduated high school the same year I did. Buffy celebrated each birthday just couple of months before I celebrated the same one, etc. The time line is relate-able for me.)

Well, haven't thought about season one's original airing dates since when I first saw them, which was when I was twelve.  So, though I knew there were only, what, twelve eps in s1, I didn't know that they started to air in March, as opposed to the previous fall.  So yeah, had she actually started the school year with Xander and Willow, she would've been fifteen.  But alas, the series started after that.  Whoops.

I think the show has Buffy's birthday on two different days, one was shown on her high school computer records.  Her headstone at end of S5 shows her birth year as 1981.  Also, she tells Riley? she's a Capricorn.  It's all very confusing.  Here's the B-day episodes and air dates I could find

S2 Surprise 01/19/98  (age 17)

S3 Helpless 01/19/99  (age 18)

S4 New Man 01/25/00 (age 19)

S5  No birthday ep?  (age 20)

S6 Older & Far Away  02/12/02 (age 21)

S7 No birthday ep?  (age 22)

S5: Blood Ties 2/6/01 

I'd forgotten about the convo in  S4's Doomed! Thanks for the reminder. It narrows down her birthday considerably.  In that ep, she tells Riley she's "Capricorn on the cusp of Aquarius," which puts her birthday roughly between January 17 and 20.

This means Blood Ties is the first birthday ep that didn't that didn't air within a week of the correct date. I'm guessing that has a lot to do with the last three seasons being too crammed full of other stories for the writers to time it out right.

If I were going to set an exact birthday for Buffy, it would be January 19, 1981. That seems to be the date that agrees most with all the available information (again, ignoring that obviously wrong computer screen info bit).

Don't know what to say about s5 and s6, but as for season four, her birthday is at the beginning of the ep, but by the end of the ep, several days have passed (how many days--not sure), so, it could account for the "incorrect" date. 

(I only thought of this cause it was mentioned on another thread that it was actually 140 days instead of 147 from s5 to s6, but "Bargaining 1 & 2" spans several days before Buffy is actually ressurected.  If anyone ever asked if canon could ever get trickier...well, now we know :P )

While the air dates are a good benchmark for when most events take place, you can't consider them sacrosanct, because as Scarlet pointed out, some episodes take place over several days. Also, sometimes a stretch of episodes will take place over the span of only a day or two (for example, the end of season 5), even though the episodes aired over a few weeks.

Wikipedia lists Buffy's birthday as January 19, 1981. Granted, that's not the most reliable source ever, but given the air dates of the early birthday eps, as well as the "Doomed" comment, it certainly makes sense.

Spike: Old Times is a comic based on the Angel television series.

By coincidence, Spike and several-hundred-year-old Vengeance Demon named Halfrek bump into each other in a bar in Los Angeles. Centuries earlier Spike had known 'Halfrek' as Cecily, who had been the object of his affections. Halfrek here reveals William's last name - Pratt. Spike soon discovers she is after another hopeless poet, Lenny. He is a decendant of one of the party-goers who attended the party where Cecily rejected William.

It turns out that every man in this family dies on his 30th birthday, and that Halfrek caused all their deaths. Spike then makes it his goal to save Lenny, just to spite Halfrek. He manages to get Lenny past attacking demons and an almost-accident with a truck, and takes him to an orphanage. Using the children as a 'cover' of sorts, he makes Halfrek lift the curse. Lenny is so over-joyed that he doesn't look where he's going, and falls out of the window.

Spike later visits the grave of Bela Lugosi where Halfrek tells Spike that one of Lenny's ancestors was the first man she ever cursed, which attracted the Master of Vengeance Demons, D'Hoffryn. She reveals that she actually liked William's poetry, and they kiss. Then, in 'the throes of passion', Spike tells her that she is beneath him.

“I always figured the business of having Spike and Halfrek ‘recognize’ each other in the episode Older and Far Away was nothing but an in-joke shout-out to actress Kali Rocha's having played both Halfrek and, in the previous season's episode Fool for Love, Spike's lost love, Cecily,” speculates writer Peter David. “But in the Whedon-verse, there's no such thing as an in-joke that can't be milked for all it's worth. And I figured there was plenty worth milking here. Quite simply, it was an episode that I wanted to see, and since it can't ever be done by Mutant Enemy, writing the story myself is the next best thing.”

Somewhere out there is a link to comic in its entirety....I just can't remember who posted it or where :wah:

I heard in the Lies My Parents Told Me commentary that he was in his early 30s before he was turned. It was something like, "The guy is in his early 30s and he's such a mama's boy."