BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

So did buffy really love spike?

Sep 12 2007 06:08 pm   #1Guest

?????

Sep 12 2007 06:42 pm   #2Scarlet Ibis

Well, Freudian slip, which indicates that at some point (s6, actually), she did.

BUFFY: I don't know. He's good-looking, and he's?he's solid, he's smart, he's normal. So, not the wicked energy, which is nice 'cause I don't want to only be attracted to wicked energy. Or what if he is wicked, in which case, is that why I'm attracted to him?
WILLOW: I'm gonna wait for that sentence to come around again before I jump on.
BUFFY: You know what? Yeah, I mean I think I like him. And he'd be good for me.
WILLOW: Right. Help you move on.
BUFFY: (defensively) Why does everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?
WILLOW: No, I-I meant move on from this imposed super-self-reliance. Let somebody get close.

(previously)


BUFFY: (yelling) I am not your girl! (knocks him to the ground, keeps pounding him, he takes it) You don't ... have a soul! There is nothing good or clean in you. You are dead inside! You can't feel anything real! I could never ... be your girl!
SPIKE: (face swollen, voice slurred) You always hurt ... the one you love, pet. Buffy? (she gets up & walks off, Spike tries to stop her but can't) Buffy...

BUFFY: It wasn't the demons. It was Warren. He knew Katrina. He had something to do with it, I know it.
WILLOW: How can you be sure?
BUFFY: You always hurt the one you love.

(I purposely ignored the "I love you" in Chosen, due to its delivery, or lack thereof)

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Sep 12 2007 07:23 pm   #3Guest

Yes! I've read 2 interviews where Joss has said that when Buffy told him she did she meant it.

As for the conversation with Willow- It could have been a throw away comment but then it is a strange choice of words if not true. Surely 'why does everyone think i'm hung up on Spike?' or the like would be more appropiate.

Besides Cassie told him she would tell him one day. The delivery sucked, though! :(

 

Sep 13 2007 02:02 am   #4pfeifferpack

Yes.  First of all Joss himself has said she did (on the commentary).  Lots of cluues through S7 including the telling, "Why does everyone think I'm STILL in love with Spike"....note the still as in had been earlier (which implies S6).  The look in her eyes as she finally owns it, just before she says it also speaks.  She was never wordy girl (not after Angel) and seemed to think she could talk about it later...later never came though.

 

Kathleen

Sep 13 2007 02:14 am   #5Unbridled_Brunette

I think she did. But years later, I'm still incredibly annoyed by the lackluster way in which Buffy said it. SMG really seemed not to give a sh*t about her character or her show at that point. Very disappointed in her for that.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Sep 13 2007 02:46 am   #6Eowyn315

I heard somewhere that the original line was, "Why does everyone think I'm in love with Spike?" and SMG added the "still" on her own. I've never seen the shooting script, and I can't remember where I read that - anyone know if it's true?

Besides Cassie told him she would tell him one day.

Well, she said she'd tell him... she didn't say she'd mean it....

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 13 2007 02:58 am   #7Maggie2

The shooting script on the Unreliable Narrator website omits the "still". 

It's obvious that Spike mattered to her a great deal.  And as someone has pointed out, couples who are not in love don't get the big shot of clasped hands going up in flames.  And of course, she said the actual words.  But I'm not sure what sort of 'love' she was talking about.  I had been hoping that the comics would clear up what she meant, and so far all we have is that she loves the idea of being the filling in an Angel-Spike sandwich.  Inspiring stuff, that.

Sep 13 2007 04:31 am   #8Scarlet Ibis

If it's true that SMG added the "still," then that restores my faith in her somewhat...that she loved Spike in s6, even if it was all twisted, makes me feel better about the shitty "I love you" in s7.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
https://www.facebook.com/FangirlNovel
Sep 13 2007 09:49 am   #9Guest

 What was so wrong about SMG's delivery of the line "I love you" again in Chosen? It was ambiguous?

I don't think she did in season six, even if the writers might have screwed up and accidently had her say that. It's possible, maybe toward the end, but a stretch. I do think she did in seven, though, as he started to become a better person on-the-surface. She could then, finally, accept that he'd helped her for years and that he really loved her. The feeling of being loved might have put her over the edge. Some of things she says in season seven ("don't leave me," "hold me," the constant foreshadowing by the writers) pretty much cement that she loved, or at least was falling in love with him.

Still, I pretty much disregard any of Buffy's love emotions after season three because Angel seriously destroyed her and she never really recovered from that. If Spike had been there before Angel... oh man... he would have gotten the best of Buffy and cherished it, unlike Angel who acted aloof and estranged and ultimately hurt her in the worst way possible. That last staredown with the ambulances in the season three finale is haunting. It's like he put her in a casket still breathing.

Still, though, I find Spuffy in season seven much more endearing and compelling than any Bangel because it wasn't blind adoration and a girl but a very, very cynical woman with enough life experience and failures and alienation to make her give up on living altogether.

I believe that, if the writers did not want it to mean "I love you" in Chosen, that they would have said "Thank you." Really, that might have been the better way to go for non-shippers, as he did thanklessly help her all those years, even when she was wrecked. I kinda actually like "Thank you."

But, yeah, I really do think she loved him in season seven. The people who say she didn't or she was just giving him his crumb are not factoring in the season's Spuffy moments as a hole.

Oct 03 2007 06:51 pm   #10nmcil

In my opinion, I think that all the symbolism, especially, last three episodes, clearly support that fact that Buffy loved spike - the metaphors work on the mythic level and spiritual level  Particularly the line "he  is in my heart," tell us that their relationship is not only a tragic love, but that they have passed onto the spiritual realm.  One of the reason that they no longer have the passionate sex is that they have moved onto the realm of "heroes." and moved away from the limitations and restrictions of Sex as symbol of LOVE.  If one goes to the scene where all the couples are engaged in Last night before the big Uber Vamp battle, all the couples are having sex and Buffy & Spike are the only ones that are not; again a symbolm of Love going from lower levels of the world realm and into the spiritual.  All the visual symbolism of flames, entertwined hands, purification by fire, spiritual power of the sun rays, and the total dedication and visual joy on Spike's face when his Soul/Spirit/Hero burns away shows that his love, and their love is total - They loved and joined both in physical love and spiritual love of The Hero Realm.

Another very important symbol ans line about Spike is what seems like a small and insignificant - when he said that the power of the amulet "kind of stings." - that also suggest that Spike's soul was a wonderful and beautiful and powerful thing already.  All the ability of love and feel and be William/Spike was always in him.  He is the self-made/resurrected "god Within," as the symbol of the sacrab beetles that enter his body also support. 

How I loved this series and all the creative staff and Joss Whedon for giving us this marvel to be a part of our lives - I will always be grateful to each person connected with the program.

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Oct 03 2007 11:59 pm   #11Guest

I, personally, believe she did, and had no problem with her delivery or S7 as a whole.  Actually, I really liked S7 and the series finale, and I think it couldn't have been done when taking into consideration all that had happened before.

If we're talking about clues that were left for us as to whether or not Buffy truly loved Spike, well, I've always considered this a big one:

The last thing Buffy ever says in the series is Spike's name.

Oct 03 2007 11:59 pm   #12Guest

I, personally, believe she did, and had no problem with her delivery or S7 as a whole.  Actually, I really liked S7 and the series finale, and I think it couldn't have been done when taking into consideration all that had happened before.

If we're talking about clues that were left for us as to whether or not Buffy truly loved Spike, well, I've always considered this a big one:

The last thing Buffy ever says in the series is Spike's name.

Oct 04 2007 12:00 am   #13Guest

Damnitalltohell...

Sorry for the double post.  And forgetting to sign.

-Coquine

Oct 04 2007 12:02 am   #14Guest

ARGH.

Better.  I think it couldn't have been done better when taking into consideration all that had happened before.

Damn, damn, and double damn.

-Coquine