BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Buffy comics & Angel comics

Sep 13 2007 01:00 am   #1goldenusagi

I've been hearing a lot of talk about the Buffy comics and the upcoming Angel comics.  One of the things being that Spike will not appear (or at least has not yet) in the Buffy ones because he'll be in the Angel ones?  Is this true, or do we know?

Sep 13 2007 02:39 am   #2Guest

Joss has said that he doesn't want to use Spike and Angel in the Buffy comics because they are published by different companies. Buffy is being put out by Dark Horse, and Angel by IDW. This was true even before the "official" continuations, I believe. Spike does appear in earlier Dark Horse comics, but since the character ended up on Angel, he's now property of IDW.

Basically, Joss can do whatever he wants. They're his characters, and his comics. But because IDW has been doing its own thing with the Spike comics, and now with Angel: After the Fall, Joss doesn't want to mess with that too much by giving Spike and Angel appearances in Buffy season 8. That doesn't necessarily mean they won't show up at all, but it does mean they won't play large roles.

Sep 13 2007 02:40 am   #3Eowyn315

Whoops, that was me up there. Didn't realize I wasn't signed in.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 13 2007 05:28 pm   #4SpikeHot

I remember them saying that Spike will have an appearence on the Buffy comics. I wish it'll happen soon, because I can't wait for a Spuffy reunion.

Sep 13 2007 07:28 pm   #5Eowyn315

I'm pretty sure the "appearance" mentioned was the one fantasy shot we saw in issue #3. I think Joss mentioned that both Angel and Spike would appear specifically in issue #3 - and that's what we got, which was disappointing and misleading. If there's a future appearance planned, I haven't heard about it. I wouldn't hold your breath for a Spuffy reunion.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 13 2007 08:45 pm   #6Guest

Joss can actually use them as much as he wants, but he'll only use them *sparingly* because Angel and Spike are "big guns" - they bring focus to them - so he'll only put them in where the *story* needs, and not just for shippers.

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Sep 14 2007 07:12 am   #7goldenusagi

So Spike was on Buffy for 5 full seasons, but because he was on Angel season 5, he's now "attached" to that "universe"?  I feel kind of gypped.  :(

Not that I expected Joss to bring back Spuffy, but it just seems that after all the things between the Buffy and Angel networks, he wouldn't want the same thing with his comics.  I mean, I know Joss can do whatever he wants, but in the comic medium, he could do WHATEVER he wants, with no constraints like actors, shooting, timing, etc.  And I wouldn't expect the Angel and Buffy groups to team up in one great big group-against-evil, but I am surprised that Spike, who was with Buffy's group for much longer than Angel's, wouldn't care to even see them again.  I know on AtS he said that it would cheapen what he did, if he showed up again, but that always seemed like a "cover" for the fact that Buffy was no longer on air, and Angel was.  Spike the character couldn't see any of them again, if he'd wanted to.

Sep 29 2007 08:19 pm   #8Enisy

 Joss can actually use them as much as he wants, but he'll only use them *sparingly* because Angel and Spike are "big guns" - they bring focus to them - so he'll only put them in where the *story* needs, and not just for shippers.

There will be Spuffy in the future, though. Joss said he doesn't want to have Spike standing in the background of every panel because "he means so much to Buffy" and "he wants to save him for the big hits".

Besides, Joss once said that "he'll spend years writing the final Buffy story and end up disappointing 50% of his audience, because Buffy will clearly end up with [static]" -- implying, I think, that the final ship will be either Spuffy or Bangel. Now, I don't really believe that Joss will go for that "easy" an ending, but that interview is one of the reasons I'm not worried about Xander/Buffy in the long run. Joss is fully aware that his fandom is divided into Spuffy and Bangel fans.


Sep 30 2007 07:54 am   #9Eowyn315

Not that I expected Joss to bring back Spuffy, but it just seems that after all the things between the Buffy and Angel networks, he wouldn't want the same thing with his comics.

It sort of is the same as the TV shows. The two comics are being published by different "networks" (publishing companies), so they are sort of separate. Obviously, some crossover is allowed, but just like on TV, it's discouraged - except in this case, I think it's Joss doing the discouraging on behalf of the publishers.

I know on AtS he said that it would cheapen what he did, if he showed up again, but that always seemed like a "cover" for the fact that Buffy was no longer on air, and Angel was.  Spike the character couldn't see any of them again, if he'd wanted to.

Well, he could have. He could have done something similar to what Buffy and Angel did after her resurrection - go away for a bit, and then come back and say, "We saw each other, it was weird and intense, and I don't want to talk about it." Or hell, even a one-sided phone call where it's clear he's talking to Buffy. I think the fact that he never attempts to contact her was a deliberate character decision, and not solely motivated by actor availability.

Now, I don't really believe that Joss will go for that "easy" an ending, but that interview is one of the reasons I'm not worried about Xander/Buffy in the long run. Joss is fully aware that his fandom is divided into Spuffy and Bangel fans.

I agree with you that I think Bander will be temporary, but I'm not sure that Joss will necessarily give fans what they want (i.e. Bangel or Spuffy, heavily weighted toward Spuffy if number of fansites is an indication of size of fanbase). He likes to give them what they need... and who knows what he'll think we need!

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 30 2007 12:16 pm   #10Enisy

I think the fact that he never attempts to contact her was a deliberate character decision, and not solely motivated by actor availability.

I think it was motivated by actor availability, actually, and the only reason Spike and Buffy didn't get an offscreen meeting was because the highers-up expected Sarah to cameo for episode 100, where we could have an onscreen reunion.


Sep 30 2007 10:16 pm   #11Eowyn315

That seems a little risky, hanging your character development on a cameo that might not work out - and as we can see, it didn't work out, and they ended up with Charisma for ep 100. But it does explain why their handling of Spike not calling her sucked.

Any idea what the outcome of that meeting would have been? If Spike was to remain a regular, and Buffy was only going to get that one cameo, it's hard to see how that could be good for the Spuffy relationship. They obviously wouldn't be able to get together, which would indicate that one or both of them no longer loves the other and has moved on.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Sep 30 2007 10:28 pm   #12Scarlet Ibis

I thought they were saving SMG's appearance for "The Girl in Question," and she backed out fairly close to the last minute.  Then, they were supposed to have had Dawn instead of Andrew at the apartment in Italy...

If they had gotten that cameo, judging by the ep, the whole reunion would've been played up as joke (but I think in a good way), with Buffy overreacting that neither vamp told her about Spike's resurrection.  Maybe work together to thwart the Immortal's plan with keeping the head and starting a war, and um...ending with Spike choosing to go back with Angel, because he felt that what they were doing there was important (which is what he says in the ep after "A Whole in the World," declining Angel's offer to be a roaming agent without the poncy tux), as opposed to helping to train a bunch of slayers who would probably wanna stake him anyway.  Couldn't be too healthy.

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Sep 30 2007 10:51 pm   #13Enisy

No, as I recall, David Fury said the whole point of "The Girl in Question" was that Spike and Angel go looking for Buffy, but they never actually get to meet up with her, she always eludes them.

If Sarah had guest-starred in Episode 100, I imagine Joss would end Spike/Buffy and Angel/Buffy on equal footing, like he did in "Chosen"... ending them, but at the same time keeping them alive.


Oct 01 2007 01:01 am   #14Guest

I've actually heard that instead of Andrew, Michelle Trachtenberg was suppose to be in the episode, and they were suppose to meet up with Dawn in it.

Oct 01 2007 03:14 am   #15Caro Mio

Episode 100 was meant to be the goodbye to Cordelia, "You're Welcome" - 1) because they had ran out of things to do with the character, and 2) they didn't know if they'd get picked up, which they didn't. Feb. 13, 2004 was the announcement of cancellation. It had nothing to do with Buffy, and everything to do with the core of "Angel" the show.

SMG was meant for TGIQ, but she had a movie.

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Oct 01 2007 03:24 am   #16Enisy

No, I'm pretty sure Episode 100 was rewritten for Cordelia, after Sarah announced she couldn't make it (family death, or something). I'll try to dig up that David Fury interview.


Oct 01 2007 03:44 am   #17Eowyn315

I thought I remembered hearing that, too, Enisy, that Cordelia was the second choice for episode 100. Maybe after they heard SMG wasn't available, they tried to reschedule her cameo to do TGIQ, but that didn't work out, either. I did hear that Dawn was supposed to be there instead of Andrew - that may have been their second option when they couldn't get SMG (again), and when Michelle wasn't available, either, they went with Andrew.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 01 2007 03:58 am   #18Eowyn315

Found it! Here is the David Fury interview. Some excerpts:

FURY: We had approached her about doing the 100th episode. Buffy was going to appear in my episode, the episode that I directed, so we put out the offer to Sarah and she politely declined which, I will say, she had her reasons. I think there might have been a death of an aunt or something that she was dealing with... It provided us with an opportunity, though, because if we couldn't get Sarah, we thought, "why don't we get Charisma back and do that," which turned out to be a Godsend because Charisma was fantastic...

As far as Sarah returning later, there was talk of her being in the finale but Joss decided - and I get it - that it's sort of unfair to our cast of characters to bring Sarah in, suddenly, at the end... 

JOZIC: But wasn't there talk of her being in "The Girl in Question"?

FURY: There was very, very little talk about that. No, she was never going to be in that. The missed opportunity to see Buffy was always going to be the joke of that... 

The person we expected to get and didn't get was Michelle Trachtenberg. We had expected to get her for that episode but she was tied up prepping a movie, I believe, and wasn't able to do it, which is why we brought Andrew back again.

But, Sarah, no. We never expected Sarah to be in that episode. We did think she might be in the second last episode, "Power Play", just like Angel appeared in the second last episode of Buffy's finale. We thought we'd do that but wound up not.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.
Oct 01 2007 05:24 am   #19Scarlet Ibis

Hmm...interesting.  Not surprised about Joss not wanting SMG for the 100th, though.  In the commentary for the ep on the AtS dvd set, Joss says that the 100th ep/cake was a much happier one than that of Buffy.

"Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly."
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Oct 01 2007 10:34 am   #20Guest

E! Online was there to take pictures and video at the 100th party, and everybody was smiling and laughing and such.

They did approach Sarah way early in the season about that, though, because spoilers at the time also had speculation that she would show up in "Soul Purpose" as part of Angel's dream, but closer to, we knew that they were just going to use her recorded voice and that everything had been set up for CC to come back. Those first 12 episodes in a season go pretty quickly, since the show is back to work in July-August. I miss the spoiler and wildfeed days.....

Oct 01 2007 07:24 pm   #21Eowyn315

Not surprised about Joss not wanting SMG for the 100th, though.

Think you got it backwards, Scarlet. He DID want her for the 100th ("You're Welcome"), and she said no. He didn't want her for the finale, which was episode 110.

Writing should feel easy, like a monkey driving a speed boat.