Ok, here is something that I've always wondered.

I know as a vampire, they do not have a reflection...which in itself is a good question in itself...why don't they since they are solid, moving masses of flesh...but I digress...

The question is this...numerous times we've seen Spike or Angel or various other vampires standing in front of mirrors etc., and though they don't cast a reflection for whatever reason...why do their clothes also not reflect?

I mean seriously...Spike goes out buys/steals clothes puts them on and stands in front of a mirror and nothing. Why is that?

Just a little something I've always wondered about and kind of thought was rather ridiculous. One would think it would be much like the Invisible Man-type series...the guy is invisible but his clothes are not...

Any thoughts or ideas about this??

:shrug: I'd say it falls in the same category as vampires being able to get a hard one despite having no circulation. We're talking fantasy and made up mystical creatures here, of course some things aren't gonna make sense.

Although, if someone can come up with a pseudo-scientific explanation for this, that'd be fun. ;-)

That's another thing...no circulation but yet when fists and legs and feet get cut up, they bleed! How is the blood they drink absorbed as food and how in the world is it able to travel to other parts of the body so if they are cut, they bleed.

Argh! Too many questions butting about in my head now.

I wish someone would post an anatomy and physiology on a vampire since we know how the human body works without being undead so it would be nice to know the workings of an undead one.

The clothing issue thing still irks me though.

It's a bad proposition to try to apply science to fantasy.  (For example, Taltos. I still want that day of my life back.)   There is no scientific reason their clothes don't reflect.  (There's no scientific reason they don't reflect.  Science doesn't apply)  There's a story-driven reason in that it would cut down on the stealth factor if people could see their empty clothes moving in the reflection.   It doesn't really make sense that they show up on film either, but again... imaginary.  Does Spike urinate?   Up to the author.  How does ingested blood fill their veins?  Up to the author.

Imaginary creatures in a fantasy universe don't have to bow to physical reality.  There just need to be consistent rules within the fantasy universe.  You can't have some vampires bleed and others not, holy water affect some but not other, etc.   But trying to make vampires into something scientifically viable is like asking how  Dumbo is able to fly.  Make rules that make sense for consistency, but don't worry too much about it.

Actually, it makes sense that they bleed when their feet get cut up. What doesn't make sense is that they don't bleed MORE when they get cut on a lower body-part... Ugh, thinking about it makes my head arche.

Anyway, about the drinking blood and it traveling to other body-parts. I never understood where that idea came from (and I've only ever seen it in fanfiction). The sensible explanation here is of course that blood is for them like food is for us, and it works in a similar way. The body takes what it needs out of the blood/food, and if the body has everything it needs, it, among other things, will "make" more blood. That happenes a lot faster than with humans, cos vamps have the fast healing thing; but if the blood they drink would just slip through a hole into their veins, that would not only sound silly, it'd also mean that it still is the same blood. And I'm not aware that there are any vamp-theories around, that say you can turn someone by giving him "normal" blood....

Ooo I'v a question (its in the same realm)  Why do their cloths dust too? 

Fom what I've seen... when a vamp dusts... its more like... sudden combustion... the vamp burns from the inside out...  and burning the clothes too.

Look closely at a vamp in mid-dust ( pause button on dvd's rock)... it looks like they are burning.

Okay, here is one.......... we know that Spike eats regular food, and we all know what happens to food being processed by a human body and what the waste product is. What happens to the food that Spike eats? Does he ever have to go to the bathroom?

I don't think it answers the mirror question, but something I stumbled upon:

http://www.naturalblues.org/irfikos/vampires.html

The no reflection thing does make it easier for a vampire to have no conscience, too. I mean, how many of us have had a difficult time looking in the mirror at ourselves for some reason? Not only does it aid them in being stealthy predators, it adds to that freedom they've gained of not being under human constrictions.

A fairly good application of science to vampires is in the movie "Demon Under Glass". It's not always easy to find, but it's a really good movie for a take that's more mental, than action.

HA! Explains why Spike always does that tongue roll to the teeth thing!! ^^

 HA! Explains why Spike always does that tongue roll to the teeth thing!! ^^

ROFL/LMAFO, yup, that sums that up.

As far as the clothing thing, I remember from this site I was on last year something like since the demon possesses the body it controls everything on it as well as within. Hence the clothing not reflecting either. I also read the thing about the demon burning from the inside out when it turns to dust, that's why Buffy removes her stake from the body before it dust. Or mr. pointy will go up in flames too.

Thinking about the blood they drink. Since it is food for them, after digestion (sp?), instead of the body removing it through urination and defication the blood is reintroduced into the body, so that the demon's needs can be fulfilled i.e. sex.

As for drink, I'm thinking maybe the body absorbes it, but wouldn't one still have to pee? Just like drinking hot chocolate? I'm sure Spike had to use the bathroom after eating, Joss just didn't explore that topic,lol.

Found this: http://experts.about.com/q/Buffy-Vampire-Slayer-1099/souls-mirrors.htm (differnt site than below)

Reflections

Angel: Why would a woman I've never met even talk to me? Doyle: Have you looked in the mirror lately? Oh, I guess you really haven't, no.

Vampires cannot be seen on reflective surfaces:

Angel: the glass doors of Giles' bookcase (Invisible Girl), the glass window of Giles' office (Reptile Boy), Buffy's compact mirror (Earshot), mortalAngel can see himself in the glass of his office wall (IWRY), but Cordelia can't see vampAngel in the same glass (Expecting), Rebecca's living room mirror (Eternity), the gym mirror (Judgment), the boutique mirror (Reunion), restaurant mirror (Belonging). Buffy can see Lyle Gorch on the escalator, but not in the mirror (Bad Eggs). The vamps in the Initiative's demon zoo cast no reflection on the glass of their cells, but the walls behind them do.

Theories about reflections:

The origin of the lack of image in mirrors is traced back to the legendary ability of silver to combat evil. Way back when, mirrors were backed with silver to provide the reflection. ...Nowadays, I'm pretty certain they come backed with aluminium or something.... So, it's not the fact that vampires wouldn't show up due to some strange light-trick, it's the fact that mirrors contained silver, their most feared and hated element (Kenickie. Jun 17 09:07 1999).

I've always thought that mirrors didn't reflect vamps because they had no soul... but that doesn't explain Angel (MeeB, Jun 17 10:52 1999).

I prefer the Jossian philosophy to these questions involving divergent theories and mythologies on such vampire lore: "research is for wimps." He just makes it up as he goes (Closet Buffyholic, Jun 17 10:24 1999).

It's not physics, it's metaphysics (Joss, March 15, 2000)

Masquerade's response: duh, Joss. We're just trying to figure out the metaphysics.

They can be seen in photographs (Drusilla in LTM?, Zachary Kralik in Helpless, Angel in AYNOHYEB) and on video tape (a Spike minion in Halloween, Mr. Trick in Homecoming, Angel in S&S)

"It's not that vampires don't photograph, it's just that they don't photograph well" --Cordelia, AYNOHYEB

Video recorders don't rely on mirrors like standard cameras do. They utilize rapid line-by-line scanning on the field of view, convert that into an electromagnetic signal, and record it on whatever media you're using. Basically, it works for the same reason you can see a vampire directly with your eyes, but not a reflection of it (Shalazar, Oct 6 10:37 1999).

Vampire Physiology

Dawn:"I didn't know he was dead!"
Justin:"Living dead."

Are vampires really dead?

The dialogue on the show confuses this issue. Vampires are called "dead", but they must also be "killed". We are obviously dealing with two different definitions of the word "dead" here. Xander makes this distinction in the Zeppo:

"...walking around and drinking with your buddies dead", vs. "little bits being swept up by a janitor dead."

Vampires may be "dead" if one's definition is "without living human physiological function". But vampires walk, talk, think, and feel, no matter what's going on in the bodies they inhabit.

What is going on in vamp bodies? When someone in the Buffyverse is vamped, they die of blood loss and their human soul leaves the body. So in that sense, the person is dead. However, since they drank from the blood of the attacking vampire before their death, the body develops a demon physiology shortly after death (Becoming, pt. 1, Helpless, The Freshman). With this new physiology, the body is essentially alive again--it doesn't rot like a dead body does; it takes on most of the normal physiological characteristics of a human, with some differences:

• blood is their nutrition;
• When vampires on the show are calm, and the blood-lust isn't upon them, they have normal faces. When they're feeding or fighting, they look like vamps (Closet Buffyholic, Feb 2 13:42 2000).
• since they have no pulse, blood and other chemicals might have a different way to diffuse through the body. And vampires do bleed to a certain extent, e.g., Angel in IGYUMS. Then again, blood may simply act as a mystical force animating vamp bodies;

Vampires obviously have some kind of blood flow... oxygenating their tissues, just like in a human body (though the quantity is obviously far less). ...When Angel was shot in "I Only Have Eyes for You", he bled from the wound, as he did when he cut his hand in "Becoming pt.2". ...This explains why the blood [they consume] must be whole and fresh (sigiil, 29 Feb 2000 12:04).

• their bodies register in at room temperature (The Initiative, Blind Date, TSOR).
• they walk and talk and perform other motor functions a human body can (some better than humans). One assumes their muscles need energy, and since
• they don't breath, the oxygen their body needs might come from the oxygen in the fresh blood they consume.
• they heal rapidly, but in a similar way to human bodies. Their capability for injury means vampires can be knocked unconscious, as humans are when trauma to the brain means shutting down conscious processes temporarily (e.g., Spike in Blood Ties). However, Glory cannot feed off the brain energy of a vampire like she can a human.
• Likewise, the Tree Demon that lives on human life energy can get nothing from Angel.

Anyone who is looking for a completely physical explanation of vampires is slipping out of the Buffyverse. Vampires, like slayers and witches are partly physical and partly supernatural creatures. Many aspects of their undead physiology are explained by the laws of the mystical, not the laws of the physical.

Short version: Vampire bodies aren't dead, their physiology has been altered. That is no doubt why they are called "the undead".

Vox on Are vampires dead?

I can answer the mirror thing.  It was once believed that a mirror didn't reflect a person, but instead reflected their soul.  When you looked into a mirror it was your soul, not your physical form you were seeing.  So when the vampire mythology came about and they didn't have souls, the mirror thing came about (there's also some speculation about the silver in mirrors because silver can hurt them.  But I would think something being able to hurt you wouldn't affect your reflection.  A knife or a gun could hurt me but if it's all polished and shiny, I'll still reflect.)

As for why clothes don't reflect, who knows?  (for that matter why DO things like furniture reflect...unless people believed furniture had souls.)  It's one of those things that is just part of the mythology, and we all suspend our disbelief of it for the story. (although plenty of people have written vampire mythologies where they did have reflections with or without souls.)

I know Angel has a soul and doesn't reflect, but I think it's likely that Joss Whedon and Co. didn't know where the mirror myth came from, only that it was the common myth.  I doubt they all got together and had a big meeting to figure out exactly why  mirrors didn't really reflect vampires.  I think one would pretty much have to be some kind of vamp-o-phile to have taken the time to find that out.

Also, if people are being consistent with mythology vampires shouldn't show up on film or camera (unless it's digital) I would consider the fact that they often do, to be another bit of ignorance. (Perhaps not all people realize mirrors are used or maybe they just don't think about it.  Or maybe a writer or movie maker needs them to show up on film for some reason, and figures the general population is ignorant about how these things work. )

Some authors and movie makers HAVE carried over the lack of reflection thing into video as well.  There was a really cool scene in Dracula 2000 where they showed that he didn't show up on camera.  

As for why vampires can get an erection and have sex?  My personal belief is that vampire stories aren't really ABOUT vampires so much as they are about humans.  Our darker side, our shadow self.  The primal part of us we like to pretend isn't there behind a civilized mask.  The vampire story is a safe place to explore that.

But it's also highly sexual, because humans are highly sexual.  And although some authors like Anne Rice have successfully make the bite itself so orgasmic there's no need for sex, I think humans deeply need that physical and complete joining of bodies that only the sex act can produce, hence vampires can get an erection, just because we want them to.

If you watch Seeing Red really carefully you can see Buffy throw Spike across the room so maybe it works out if Buffy annoyed with him he has a reflection....

i think that i have an explanation for the mirror thing, and i know about the bleeding/blood thing. As to the bleeding/hard on thing, here's my explanation: In a book i read on vampires once it was said that although vampires do not have circulation like a normal human, their blood does move through their body. The blood moves through the body by the sheer force of the vampire's will power. This brings up the counterpoint that there are some very dumb or weak-willed vampires out there, but i believe that the will of blood to move in their body is powerful since one of the driving factors in vampires is their will to live. Oh, and as to how vampires digest blood: apparently the blood that vampires have in their veins is very week and breaks down easily. Drinking living blood replaces that blood in their bodies as it deteriorates. In biological terms, blood is absorbed through the stomach lining and small intestine directly into the bloodstream.

As to the mirror thing, i'll try to put a coherant explanation (although that's kinda hard for me). The vampire is not supposed to be part of the human world. Vampires aren't even supposed to exist. Them and the things that they interact with have to interact on a separate plane than humans. So the clothes that they interact with directly (the ones they wear) also have their existence negated by their assosiation and continue to be so until they return to the human realm.

i dunno, i tried.