BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Do you only read sexy fics?

Dec 31 2006 05:55 pm   #1Lilachigh
This message has been carried over from the tag. I posted a note as to why no one was reading my story Future Imperfect, although I get loads of readers for other stories, such as Strip Snap. The general response seemed to be that it wasn’t sexy, even though several chpts are and will be NC17. I am interested to know, do you only read stories for the sex scenes. Does the actual plot not interest you at all? I feel it should be at least a combination of both and that a good story, even if there is little sex, is better than a bad story with loads of it! Comments would be welcome.
 Lilachigh
Dec 31 2006 06:17 pm   #2The Space Between

I'm one of your reg readers Lila!

I do love the dirty stuff, but for me it has to be more of PWP rather than just something pointless because I need something that will make me want to keep reading. After all, there are only so many positions you can have sex in before its more of an acrobatic act than something shared between two people.

~*~ The Powers offer no sympathy for the way things are...Human deeds are left in human hands. It's what one does with what's left that makes any difference ~*~ Jenny Calander as created by HollyDB
Dec 31 2006 06:42 pm   #3GoldenBuffy

I agree. Don't get me wrong I like smut,and a good pwp at times. But the story has to be good, good plot, good writing, etc. Hey even if theres no smut, just hints to it, like PG-13 I'll still read. A story doesn't have to contain sex to be good. I remember reading on a web site that offered how to write good fic, she said if you can removed the sex and the story is still good, then you know you've writen something entertaining. If you find that the smut is the only thing good in your fic then you need to stop and rework what your doing.

I'm still working my way through my list of must reads and your on it, so once I get there believe I do review,lol.

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Dec 31 2006 06:55 pm   #4Spikez_tart

Lilac - deep apologies for not keeping up with Future Imp.  I never get to read as much as I want.  As to porn, I'm not really interested in porn without plot, it's boring, I'm far more interested in subtle revelations about the characters, or good plots and action.  Sex ought to be a plot development and not just a reader requirement.  I am having a little trouble getting my brain around the idea of Spike being a grandfather. 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Dec 31 2006 07:20 pm   #5weyrwolfen

I'm completely in this for the plot.  If sex is part of the plot, then I'm all for it.  If the plot is only about sex, or if the sex detracts from the plot, then I'm usually out.  As for me, I tend to write on the PG-13 -ish level, because I prefer writing action and who-done-it kinds of things instead of sex.  I have had reviewers come right out and tell me that they almost didn't read my stories because they weren't NC-17 (and I've had others tell me they will never read my stuff for the same reason), and that even though my review numbers seem to be average to low-ish, I should be particularly grateful for what I do get because I wasn't writing in the heavy sex scenes.  I respect that opinion, but I'm not going to change what and how I write, becuase I write what makes me happy.  I'm not saying I don't like reviews, because that would be a blatent lie, but I'm going to write what I'm going to write.  Hell, the fact that anyone reads my stuff still blows me away, but that's probably just my raging inferiority complex talking.  So, um, the point.  I guess my point is that we're already writing for a niche market, and within that, it seems like people are either specifically looking for good sexy plots or they just want a good plot, sexy or otherwise.  No sex => smaller corner of the niche => fewer potential readers and thus reviews.  People who like big fights, twisty plots, and don't mind reptiles popping up all over the place might give my stuff a shot, and I'll love them for it.  (Whether or not my stories are 'good' is up to interpretation.  I am, of course, biased.)  People who want to read that kind of stuff (or any other genre) plus sex will look elsewhere, and that's cool too.  At least, that's what I tell my ego in the dark hours of the night.

Dec 31 2006 07:36 pm   #6DreamsofSpike

to be honest, even though some of what i write is definitely nc-17, i tend to skim over sex scenes...usually just sex is not enough to hold my interest much...when i write sex scenes, it's usually as a *part* of the plot, not the whole plot...and if a fic i write is centered around sex, there's more to it than sex (the whole power dynamic, emotional aspect of the whole thing, exploring the characters *through* sex)....

if a fic has a very intriguing plot, that's what draws me in usually..and if it's all about sex, there'd better be a point, or i'll just be skimming the whole thing....

Dec 31 2006 08:09 pm   #7fallen_angel

I read for two things, plot and humour (not necessarily together) and usually skim over the smut. And I love Future Imperfect.

It's a secret no one tells
One day it's heaven one day it's hell
And it's no fairytale take it from me
That's the way it's supposed to be

You will fly and you will crawl
God knows even angels fall
No such thing as you lost it all
God knows even angels fall

--Linda Davis

Dec 31 2006 11:45 pm   #8slaymesoftly

I see she already started the thread - good!

No real surprises here. We did a similar sort of straw poll on RRU and found that most readers want whatever sex there is to be an integral part of a plot. Yes, there are many people in the fandom who are only looking for the smut - and that's fine, for them.  I certainly don't think it should influence the way anyone writes.  If you're feeling sexy and a love scene should be happening about there in the plot, then go for it.  If you aren't comfortable with it, or it makes no sense in terms of what's going on with the characters, then you may well just be trashing a potentially good fic by inserting uninspired or inappropriate sex.

I love the comment about taking out all the sex and if you still have a good fic, then you know you have a good story.  May I quote it on RRU? It sums things up very nicely, I think.  I know that I skim through the sex scenes much of the time unless they are giving me some sort of insight into the characters' emotions and/or relationship. 

As I said earlier on the tag, when I first started reading I spent a lot of time with the R and NC17 stories because I was finding most of the good writing there and assumed it was because the PG ones were written by kids (which a lot of them were).   The NC17 figs seemed to be not only better-written and with fewer grammar/punctuation/plot howlers, but the themes they addressed were more mature and realistic, and therefore more interesting to read. Of course, as I read more and learned about various authors, I realized that good fics could be found in all ratings and that NC17 was no guarantee of quality.

I remember being shocked (shocked, I tell you, shocked!) the first time I read an explicit sex scene.  I was like "Whoa!  Did the rules about what you could write without being arrested change and nobody told me?" LOL (The answer, apparently is "yes". A far cry from the days when you had to smuggle Lady Chatterley's Lover into the country or find Henry Miller in a porn store.  Yes, I am old, dammit! Shut up!)

I appreciate a well-done love scene, and I have certainly read some that...well, never mind *cough* ... Where was I?  Oh yeah,  I do think a  few judiciously placed love scenes can add a  great deal to a story - just as an inappropriately placed one (or  BAPish one) can detract, but I no longer use the rating as a guide for finding good fic.  

Having said all that - I know that the majority of the fics I've written (especially for the BSV) are NC17 and those are the ones that bring the most reviews (and the chapters that get the most reads - which is even more telling, I think.)  So, I'm a flaming hypocrite.  Sue me! LOL

PS - I find good UST even more fun than most sex scenes - both writing it and reading it.

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Dec 31 2006 11:55 pm   #9Diabola

Nope, no smut in a fic has never stopped me from reading. The only time when smut plays a part in whether I'll read a fic or not, is when it is bad!smut or badly placed smut - then it will stop me from reading more of the fic - or at least make me skipp the smutty parts and be annoyed.

I'd like to add something regarding "Future Imperfect" here. I think it is possible that less people are reading it, because it isn't about the developement of Buffy and Spike's relationship - which seems to be what interests lots of readers most. It doesn't have the "must read more so I can see if they ever get together or not" pull. It might snatch up more readers once it is finished and people can read it in one go. -- This is just an idea though, could be I'm completely off the mark.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." - Albert Einstein
Jan 01 2007 12:07 am   #10slaymesoftly

Oh, I think that's a great thought, Dia.  I hadn't occurred to me, but you may well be right.  I know that I lose interest in my own stories once I've got my two fav blonds together in a semi-permanent way.  Demands for sequels fall on deaf ears - I'm done!  I don't know that I've not read any fics because they are already together in them, but I can certainly see why a fic like that might have less appeal. What do you think, Lilac? Have you had any feedback that indicates that might be the case?

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Jan 01 2007 12:12 am   #11The Space Between
A far cry from the days when you had to smuggle Lady Chatterley's Lover into the country or find Henry Miller in a porn store. Yes, I am old, dammit! Shut up!

LOL I wrote my paper on Henry Miller and Anais Nin's relationship for my Sex Ed class  and I'm not that young...nor am I that old...just kinda pleasantly in between :)

~*~ The Powers offer no sympathy for the way things are...Human deeds are left in human hands. It's what one does with what's left that makes any difference ~*~ Jenny Calander as created by HollyDB
Jan 01 2007 01:43 am   #12GoldenBuffy

 I love the comment about taking out all the sex and if you still have a good fic, then you know you have a good story.  May I quote it on RRU? It sums things up very nicely, I think.

Please go ahead and use it. I wish I could remember the site I was reading on. But sadly my pc blew up the summer of 2005 and I lost the link.

Also another point I read. If your squishy writing smut or you can't even read others smut then you really don't need to write it. Beacuse your shyness could take away from what your trying to put across to your readers. (Did that make sense?)

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Jan 01 2007 02:18 am   #13Lilachigh
Very interesting point about people not wanting to read a story where Buffy and Spike are obviously together. I must admit I had not considered this. Future Imperfect was sparked into life by her comments in Series 7 about ‘fat grandchildren’ and I wanted to explore what would happen when they arrived. I did not want an ‘old’ Buffy and Spike because their relationship is still of vital importance to the story development. Hence their daughter being so young when she had the twins. I also wanted to explore in depth how it would feel to be Buffy and Spike’s daughter. We get so many stories where a baby arrives, but not too many from the child’s pov. And obviously, the relationship between our two favourites is going to be strained to breaking point as the story continues. Perhaps it won’t survive!!!
 Lilachigh
Jan 01 2007 03:06 am   #14slaymesoftly

<i>Perhaps it won’t survive!!!</i>  If it doesn't, you know we will hang you from the nearest tree... (And I mean that in the kindest possible way*g*)

I think your take on what it could be like to be their child is great, and not something very many people have considered when writing fics in which Spike and Buffy have children.  It's different and probably much truer to what would actually occur than is usually presented.  Please don't change where you intended to go with this based on any hypotheses we're talking  about on here.  You are presenting an original and interesting story that is entitled to its own place in the fandom, regardless of whether some readers choose to skip it, or what their reasons for that may be.  If a reader is invested in a story, they will generally stick with it until it reaches it's logical conclusion. And, if they aren't invested in it, then trying to lure them with gratuitous sex or drama isn't something a writer should be willing to do.  IMHO, anyway.  *dismounting from soap box now*

And this is the cool thing about the forum - we start with one question and the discussion evolves and moves into other areas of interest.

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Jan 01 2007 07:12 am   #15Guest

I don't read for rating specifically, either. I choose something when the summary or title interests me. I did find, also, that a lot of the older good stories were R or NC-17...NC-17 more often than not.....and was also surprised at finding graphic scenes, since not all the old archives put ratings on fic. Stumbling into that was like WHOA!

I skim over graphic language. I just don't find the words attractive, but that's me. I write mostly PG-13, rarely even swear in the stories unless it really fits a sentiment, and my sex scenes are more about knowing what's happening than *showing* what's happening, if you catch my drift. I like even the quickies to have a romantic feel between the couple still.

CM

Jan 01 2007 09:45 am   #16Lilachigh
Don’t worry, I never change anything about one of my stories based on what readers say. You simply cannot do that as a writer, although sometimes when you look at the plot twists in the Dickens stories that were written as magazine serials, you do wonder.......
 Lilachigh
Jan 01 2007 04:07 pm   #17Guest

 Ahhh crap. Liachigh I'm sorry. I am reading your story "Future Imperfect" but I have not been reading or writing much since before Christmas. First I was busy then on the 26th I got sick. I'm still getting over the damn thing.

But to answer your question plot means more to me than a story full of sex. I can happily read a story with no sex in it if the plot is good. Sometimes the sex can get in the way of the story and I will end up scrolling past the sex in order to get back to the action. It often depends on how the author has balanced the action and sex in the story. If it's a good balance then the plot doesn't suffer.

Either way I still prefer a good plot any day. :)

Jan 01 2007 04:16 pm   #18Guest

O.k this just shows how muddled my brain still is. I meant to sign that post damn it! ::shruggs:: Oh well, I'll just blame it on this damn bug I'm trying to get rid of.

LadyYashka

Jan 01 2007 04:18 pm   #19slaymesoftly

LOL, Lilac.

I'm with you, CM. There are many graphic words that I just don't find attractive (or erotic, for that matter). The more of them there are, the less "sexy" I often find the scene.  I've got a pretty good imagination - let me use it to picture which body parts are doing what to whom. :) One of the things I struggle with when writing sex is how to describe what's going on without sounding too coy or too porny (is that a word?lol).   Sometimes I bounce back and forth between the two within the same scene - alas - as I struggle to avoid the words I really don't like.

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Jan 01 2007 06:48 pm   #20Spikez_tart

Happy New Years fellow ranters.

taking out all the sex and if you still have a good fic, then you know you have a good story. 

I think if you take out the sex scene and it ruins the story, then it's a good story.  The sex scene should be an intregal part of the plot, characters should change or be re-directed in some way as a result of having sex.  Havinig said that, I shamelessly pander to the NC17 readers with sex scenes;  I just try to make them a necessary part of the story.

Lilac - I think I agree with comments above that lack of interest may be due to lack of conflict between Buffy and Spike at this point in the story.  The story really isn't about them, but about the twins, who are excellent and interesting characters in their own right.  Personally, I'm not so bound and determined to read Spuffy all the time, as long as they come in to it somewhere. 

 

 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Jan 01 2007 08:31 pm   #21anaunthe

I don't even look at the ratings when I am choosing a fic to read.  Mostly I look for something that takes place in a timeframe I like, or something about the summary appeals to me.  Sometimes I'll look for authors I know I like, and if I am really desperate to find something then I'll search top tens or something.  I hate when fic become so predictable and you know how everything is going to work out - sometimes I even stop reading at that point.  So, yeah, plot is very important. 

That said, I'll agree with whoever wrote that the smut must be an integral part of the story for it to be really worthwhile.  I think the most successful stories are those that manage to weave the plot and smut together, so that each supports the other.

Cas
Jan 02 2007 12:27 am   #22Always_jbj

I am interested to know, do you only read stories for the sex scenes.

Absolutely not! If anything I am LESS inclined to read a smut!fic... I have nothing against good, well-written sex scenes within a fic, but if that is ALL there is I'm really not interested (with the exception of some authors). 

I have had a lot less time for reading in the past 12 months, as such I have been reading a lot less of the long chaptered fics... and tending more towards the ficlets that I can squeeze in when I have ten minutes free to read. From what I can tell 2006 (and specifically the latter half of it) was very hectic for a lot of people...so possibly that could explain some of the drop off in readers?

Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to 


Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Jan 02 2007 04:55 am   #23Spikes Slayer2

i love stories with great plot. Its what draws me in. If there is a smutty chapter or 2 within that plot, then thats just a bonus! :P

i love Future Imperfect, i cant get enough of it!! lol please continue, regardless of how much or how little smut is in it, cause honestly, it doesnt bother me either way! :D

"If i lay here; if i just lay here, would you lie with me and just forget the world?" - snow patrol
Feb 03 2007 02:25 pm   #24SpikeHot

I like smut as long as there's a story, I'm not a fan of PWP. I need more conflict between Spike and Buffy to enjoy it.

Feb 03 2007 03:59 pm   #25ZoeGrace

I normally skim over the sex when I read.  There are some exceptions where I think it's really well written, but to me just using dirty words doesn't equal sexy.  I'm not in any way titillated by fictional written nudity alone.  There has to be something psychological with it, or something kinky or some dialogue other than just "oh god yes, yes, yes." you know?

I know it sounds bizarre, for ME after FA to say: "I skim most sex scenes" but yeah.  I actually skim a lot, not just sex scenes.  I skim anything that drags, slows the plot down, flashes back to something I don't think is important to the story, or introduces original characters that I don't give a flip about.  It's nothing against the writing or the writer, I just don't have time to read every single word unless it's really gripping.

Feb 07 2007 07:06 am   #26Guest

I don't read pwp - unless it's an author that I "trust" from reading their longer, plot-filled works. Then I know whether or not they're going to use banal or jarring phrases like "silk over steel" (wouldn't the steel cut through in a not-so-comfy way?). I generally read the sex scenes in longer stories, though.

Sex is definitely a part of the Spuffy dynamic, but ultimately it's just another event leading up to the answer of (how)will they get together? I'd be happy reading a fic that didn't have the sex at all. If one is ever written ... :) Nell

[haven't used this post thingy before - hope it comes out alright]

Feb 07 2007 05:03 pm   #27slaymesoftly


reading a fic that didn't have the sex at all. If one is ever written ... :) Nell


I used to think that I had to read only R or NC17 because that was where the good writing was, but now I know that's not necessarily true and there are many sweet Spuffy stories in which they are allowed their privacy for the happy-ever-afterning. :) If think if you stick to the authors you like, you will find that some of them have written PG and PG 13 in addition to the hard-core stuff.

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 07 2007 10:48 pm   #28Verda

Lilac,

My answer to your question is...no! I will read anything that's interesting and especially well written. However, to do get into moods when I want to read humorous, anything non-angsty or smut. If it's good, I will read, no matter the rating. 

Feb 08 2007 02:23 am   #29Unbridled_Brunette

I ready NC-17 fics almost exclusively, but it isn't because of the smut. In fact, if there are tons of extended sex scenes, I skim over them because I feel they slow the story. But for some reason the NC-17 fics seem to be the best written. The rating doesn't just mean the content is mature...it usually means the plot is as well.

I don't, however, read PWP. I've got to have plot! lol.

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Feb 08 2007 03:09 am   #30Always_jbj

But for some reason the NC-17 fics seem to be the best written. The rating doesn't just mean the content is mature...it usually means the plot is as well.

I can see your reasoning, but I can't say I agree with it...some of the worst fics I have read are NC-17 rated ones...and some of the best are lower rated. *shrugs*  Whether a story is well-written or has a mature plotline comes down to the individual author, rather than a rating. For example I LOVE Enigmaticblue's writing, and I don't think she has ever written a NC-17 fic... I could be wrong, but if she has it would be a rarity... and yet she has wonderful, intricate, mature plotlines with beautiful characterisations.

 A lot of authors feel they have to put smut in to the story in order to 'compete' ...so you get gratuitous smut, or sometimes smut written by younger authors etc that does nothing to enhance the story, it simply detracts from what could have been a very good story if it had been left in one of the lower ratings. IMHO

Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to 


Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Feb 08 2007 04:12 am   #31Unbridled_Brunette

Oh, I'm sure there are a lot of very good PG--R rated fics as well. It's just that so many times you have to wade through heaps of fics written by kids (not that kids aren't good writers, but the stories are generally geared more toward their age group). Unless someone points me toward a particular story, then usually I don't read below an NC-17 rating.

I don't think it's that hard to weed the real stories from the smut, either. You can usually just tell which is which by reading the summary.

Again, though. This is all just my opinion. :)

Faithfully bowing at the altar that is Stephen Colbert
Feb 08 2007 07:32 am   #32Always_jbj

LOL...fair enough, now if you haven't read EB's work consider yourself pointed in her direction...you won't regret it!

http://www.freewebs.com/enigmaticblue

Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to 


Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal