It's Thanksgiving so Turkey and Pangs are the order of the day. 

Love the way this starts out - we see a pathetic guy creeping around like he's scared and up pops Buffy.  We're thinking he's a normal guy and she pastes him.  Then out come the fangs.  I guess we're supposed to learn that bad guys can look like they're good and possibly the reverse in a reference to Spike.  Anyway a cute twist on the usual.

Costuming - okay the costume department went a little bit far with Buffy's cowboy hat and cowgirl skirt, but it looked damn good next to that horrendous outfit that Anya was wearing.  Guess Buffy's supposed to be a cowgirl since she abandons Mr. Gordo and has a stuffed cow on her dorm bed.  Also, I felt deeply that I wanted to slap Anya silly in that whole digging-sex conversation.  Yuck.

Joyce - what kind of mom abandons her kid to a dorm room on Thanksgiving? 

Poor pitiful Spike finds himself at Giles' front door.  What in the world made him think that Giles would help him?  Possibly because he kept Angelus from killing Giles.  Interesting that he goes to Giles and not to Buffy and this is the beginning of a relationship between the two men.  I notice that Buffy lets him sit at the table for dinner (invitation to become part of the group) but he doesn't get anything to eat in spite of his protestations that he's starving. 

Willow - from their conversationi when Spike asks Willow to confirm that he can't bite anyone any more, it appears that either Willow didn't tell Buffy that Spike was in their room and tried, but failed to bite her (how can that be?) OR Willow and Buffy did not tell Giles that Spike was in Buffy's room, which is pretty weird.  We don't see Buffy and Willow doing a de-invite spell for Spike on their room, although I don't think he's ever there again. 

Angel - Doesn't he see Spike sitting in Gile's living room when he takes his last fond look at Buffy?  And, why does everyone think he's evil again?  He's really not doing anything other than showing up in Sunnydale.  Also, does he kill one of the Indians with that neck snap when no one else can kill them?

Shovel - Willow and Anya grab those Traveling Shovels of Death.  You've gotta love the TSOD.

Riley - Buffy invites him and he rejects her offer to join her "family."  FORESHADOWING HERE.

Spike-Xander-Giles - interesting that they come up with pretty much the same opinions on the subject of killing the ghost warrior and Buffy and Willow are forced to abandon their prissy, politically correct opinions in order to fight for their lives. 

You made a bear - Spike accuses Buffy of being responsible for the Bear transformation.  Not really sure that's true, but since bears are ever popular in the B Verse, maybe it's a nod to Buffy and Spike's future relationship?  Or maybe the bear refers to Angel, who's lurking around and is identified with being Daddy Bear.  In the previous episode, Spike refers to himself as "daddy" to Harmon.  I'd be glad to hear some less lame opinions on the subject of the bear. 

Happy Turkey everyone!

I would like to know why Spike was so terrified of that bear.  He doesn't usually scare easily.

I remember being pissed when watching this episode at how dismissive Buffy and Willow were to Xander's condition. Not caring at all that he might drop dead any time soon. Only Anya and Giles showed some compassion.

Spike was tied up in the chair when Buffy "made" the bear.  So, he wasn't able to escape.  Not to mention, real bears are scary and dangerous.  But, it is out of character a bit.

Willow and Buffy are too busy arguing to pay much attention to Xander.  Another message from Joss I suspect. 

Angel snapped one bad guy's neck and jumped over him to help Willow and Anya, who were using the Shovels. We get to see him hit from behind by the guy he'd thought he'd killed and I think a tiny pause for us to recognize that he wasn't thinking the guy could get back up and attack again, and then we hear from Buffy how "these guys don't die!"

I never really liked this episode, with Buffy especially seeming out of character and shallow and focused on Thanksgiving instead of her friends or anything. Willow, too, didn't seem to have real rational consideration and feelings about teh Native American issue, but is sullen and melodramatic. I liked Giles and thought he had a few great, humorous lines. Angel being involved was just irritating and why bother putting him in when we don't get any closure about it anyway. BTW, I think the reason they all assume he's evil is that he snuck into town and is jumping them from the shadows without letting Buffy or teh others know he was coming. Why else would he keep it a secret?

True, it was just them looking for an excuse to have a crossover, there was no real point to it.  I didn't care much for this episode, either.  Buffy suddenly becoming obsessed with Thanksgiving was probably just her once again trying to strive for some kind of a normal life, not realizing it's just not gonna happen.  Yes, bears are scary, but Spike would usually not show that much fear in front of the others, if at all, so I do agree it was a bit out of character for him.

Out of character or not, I absolutely love the 'you made a bear' exchange. The look on Spike's face is priceless.

LOL, true, that part was hilarious.

Well, to be fair to Spike, he was tied to a chair, and as far as he knew, not able to physically defend himself, even if he wasn't tied up.  A bear, or any large beast would be frightening, I think.

And I liked "Pangs."  I liked the little monologues, and Angel didn't bother me...but then I like him.  I agree that Buffy was annoying, and that both she and Willow were way insensitive to their best friend dying, even if it was a mystical thing.  Did they even look for a cure, or...?

Yes, Willow says it's probably a supernatural illness, starts going through the books, thinks she's found the answer, only to have Buffy tell her it's the stuffing recipe, misfiled. Willow is sullen and melodramatic because Oz just (sort of) cheated on her and split town. It gets worse in the next ep, Something Blue.

I have alluded to the bear fear in fic, implying that it's something all vampires share. While I think it's sort of cute that something higher on the food chain would make Spike nervous, it's also true that he generally faces his fears head on.

Also, I love Xander's funny syphillis! And Buffy going crazy over Thanksgiving dinner just seemed to me to be in line with other "certain events make otherwise sane people act crazy" episodes, like Homecoming, The Prom, Something Blue, and pretty much the whole wedding planning arc leading up to Hells Belles.

Angel was being a creepy stalker. Why shouldn't they suspect evilness? My kids says, "Hey look! Angel is doing his Edward impersonation!"

Whether he's usually afraid of bears or not, what Scarlet said about being tied up and thinking he can't defend himself.  Also, he's STARVING, so obviously he isn't feeling much like himself.

Buffy especially seeming out of character and shallow and focused on Thanksgiving instead of her friends - actually, I think it's in character.  Buffy is not only a kind of driven person once she gets an idea in her head, but she is a bit selfish sometimes as well, or at least according to Jane Espenson, they were writing her that way. 

Lou - I loved that speech as well and Giles follow up crack about sarcasm being an end in itself.  Spike punctures Willow's and Buffy's pc speech and it's great stuff. 

Angel - I like Angel and, other than sneaking around which is what vampires do, I don't think he was doing anything to make the gang think he was evil.  It was funny, but maybe overplayed.

I really liked this episode. I thought is showcased bits about all the characters, and parts of it were very funny.  I loved  the banter and Giles sarcasm. This is, I think, the introduction of Spike's role this season which was part ex-bad guy semi Scooby hanger-on and partly comic relief. So, I had no problem with his "you made a bear!" line. I thought it was hilarious (as was the expression on his face). I'd really hoped for more development of a Spike/Giles friendship after this episode, so it's kind of disappointing (although probably more in character) that it didn't happen. 

more development of a Spike/Giles friendship after this episode - there are a lot of bits scattered here and there.  I'm thinking particularly of the scene in Hush where Spike is complaining about the lack of Weetabix.  Giles isn't even chaining him up by that point, which shows they don't think he's dangerous and yet Spike doesn't move out or even want to.  Spike and Giles are always interesting together, I think.

More thoughts now that I've found my notes in the piles on my desk.  (Hey when you have an obsession, you pretty much take time out for it, right?)

"I like my evil like I like my men-- evil. You know, "straight up, black hat, "Tied to the train tracks, soon my electro-ray will destroy metropolis" bad. Not all mixed up with guilt,"  Well that just about says it all for Buffy right there.  One wonders why she ever consented to even speak to Riley.  About five minutes after she makes that little speech, who shows up but Spike, who fits that bill perfectly.

Buffy rejects modernity - this is kind of interesting from the material girl - she wants real whipped cream, she wants fresh peas.  Beyond her perfectionist hissy fit, Buffy seems to be rejecting the modern for the tried and true.  An exasperated Giles prods her on this by telling her they'll have to mash the potatoes with forks, much as the Pilgrims did.  

Why is the family gathering being held at Giles' apartment - This is a shift of allegience by Buffy, away from Mom (Joyce's being gone is foreshadowing of her death?) and into Buffy's new, created family.  Buffy crowns Giles as the family patriarch and then insists everyone must bring something to the celebration.  At the end of the episode, all the key plays for the future are at the table - Giles, Xander, Anya, Willow, Buffy and Spike.  Noticeably missing are Angel and Riley and Tara, who isn't on the scene yet.  How's that for a fan wank?



 

Joss did know a year ahead that he was going to kill Joyce, so yeah, the deliberate shifting from her blood family was probably purposeful.

This ep was hilarious!

I just wanted to add that I really loved the scene with Spike covered by that old tattered blanket, looking into the window (where vamps were feeding on a human). I've never seen anyone look more adorably pitiful than poor Spike in that scene. I just wanted to hug him! Overall, I really like that episode... the dialogues were funny, I absolutely loved every single one of Spike's lines... to be honest, I don't think I would have continued watching Buffy if he wasn't in it.

Giles isn't even chaining him up by that point, which shows they don't think he's dangerous and yet Spike doesn't move out or even want to.  Spike and Giles are always interesting together, I think.

Agreed.  Spike and Giles had a very companionable relationship.  It kind of reminded me of an out there "Odd Couple" or something...

About five minutes after she makes that little speech, who shows up but Spike, who fits that bill perfectly.

*nitpick alert*  Not really, he doesn't.  Really, none of the main or former main villains did.  Except for maybe Angelus, but only in season two.  When we see more of him through flashback and his return in s4 of Ats, he turns out to not be two dimensional evil as well.

As for the closing scene--I thought it was funny how Spike too seemed to be aware of Angel's presence.  Or maybe he was just smirking at the fact that Buffy didn't know.

"I like my evil like I like my men-- evil. You know, "straight up, black hat, "Tied to the train tracks, soon my electro-ray will destroy metropolis" bad. Not all mixed up with guilt,"

While Buffy says that I don't believe that's the type of man she really wants. She fell in love with Angel and Spike for their humanity, not their evil. She may want a guy who's equal to her in strength -she started to lose interest in Riley the second he became normal. I'm starting to think she'll also lose interest in Angel and Spike if they get shanshued. (the new development in S8 with Buffy having feelings for Xander made me appreciate her more, she's not as shallow as I used to preceive her. Physical strength shouldn't matter.)

After rewatching the episode I am still puzzled by Angel's role in it.  According to him, he came because a vision showed Buffy was in great danger.  She was in danger a lot, but Angel didn't show up to help her other times.  The vision, therefore, must have shown she would be in extra danger and need extra help.  I didn't see that Angel did anything specifically to save her, did you?

I agree that during the series there were some nice friendship moments between Giles and Spike.  Spike obviously respected him since he went to Giles for help in this episode. They seemed to bond over British things such as  Wheetabix, football (soccer), and that quote about the band of "buggered" as they went off into battle.  And they worked well together the summer Buffy was dead-- Spike made a comment in a cemetary scene that caused Giles to laugh. In season 7 Giles even went back to England on a quick trip (if I recall) to get the stone that was supposed to open Spike's memory and break the trigger the First used on him; he wanted to help him. But the writers kept losing their consistency in Spike's relationships with Giles and everyone else throughout the show which was a real shame because there was a lot of potential in those relationships that they overlooked.

Visions from the PTBs on "Angel" don't always lead to what they thought. When looking at the overall goal of the crossover arc, the big happening is Angel turned human by the Morah blood, only to realize he doesn't want humanity right now. If Buffy hadn't come to LA because Angel came to Sunnydale, the whole events of IWRY could have been very different. Probably would have been very different.

Doyle had the visions at the time, and the visions are always kinda vague. He saw Buffy fighting, and so far, they only knew that vision =save the person in the vision. They assumed Buffy was in extra trouble. Whereas fate had something else in mind in the end. (This is where watching both shows comes in handy, as the rest of AtS wouldn't have happened if Angel hadn't gone back to being a vampire.)

I love "Pangs" - has always been one of my favorites of the series.  The two episodes work so well to establish Buffy's new relationship, with her Mr. Joe Normal and her former enemy eventual partner.  Giles lines about vengeance and hatred and change fit her future relationship and culminate in "The Gift."   There is tons of info in both these episodes about the coming relationships,  the "moving on" theme and the Initiative - 

I really like how Giles is used as the contrast symbol of bringing Buffy back to her duty as The Slayer vs her new Mr. Joe Normal Riley and this new force that he brings into their family with the Initiative.  Good call by the person who pointed out Maggie Walsh being the  first connection with Buffy and Riley.  Maggie Walsh and Giles are now the new parental symbols for Riley and Buffy and their inner circle and family.   Maggie and Giles are very good symbols for how Riley and The Initiative functions and how Buffy's group see their role as protectors and warriors. 

The Initiative is all cold and bloody business of the self described "righteous" and warriors for self proclaimed good" - the new cowboys,  military and mission system that destroyed the indigenous native population.   Buffy, in direct opposition to Riley and his organization, takes in Spike and offers to help him - Buffy and Giles see a person/vampire,  former enemy and sentiment being in need of help.   The other group, see only an object, animal and lesser life form to be killed, hunted and used in any way they wish.  

Seeing these two episodes again finally made clear to me why I had such a hard time with all the Initiative characters and why I found Riley so disturbing - their disdain, objectification of life form, their arrogance and self importance and their, IMO, delusion that life must fit into their "little box" definition of Good i.e., Riley and the killer mentality of Maggie Walsh and Dr. Engelman. 

It was nice to see how the male character interacted, civilized behavior instead of all the harsh anger and hatreds that develop later in the series and also nice to see the early stages of Tara-Willow love and all the wonderful Giles-Spike lines, all made for a perfect Thanksgiving Buffyverse treat.

I think it was important to have Angel/Angelus be in the episode - the new arc is Buffy, the Scoobies, Giles and Spike all moving on, all their lives changing in big and fundamental ways.  Angel/Angelus is the old boyfriend that was missing in the morning, Riley is the new that was there.  Angel/Angelus is still not able to do "the personal" stuff that Buffy wants and that she thinks Riley can give her, he is their to do his duty and his mission, as much as Buffy still has to do hers.  Looked to me like Angel does save Buffy's life.

Maybe this is more about Buffy moving on from seeing her world in Black and White, like that little cow she handles, a new way of having to see and deal with Spike and same for Spike - they both have to learn how to live in a different way.  Electro-ray already changed Spike and Riley is coming in for some drastic shocks too and Riley does believe in being the protector.  Buffy making that bear, which is symbolic of protector in many Native American myths, means she can protect herself and she has the power, strength, duty and destiny to be the leader and protector - a thing that a lot of men don't like or accept. 

"I like my evil like I like my men-- evil. You know, "straight up, black hat, "Tied to the train tracks, soon my electro-ray will destroy metropolis" bad. Not all mixed up with guilt,"

Favorite things of "Pangs" -  Buffy's ear collection line and Spike's lecture on the power and conquest and Giles in sarcasm mode.

Angel/Angelus is the old boyfriend that was missing in the morning, Riley is the new that was there.  -

Riley is gone, Angel is stuck outside (banished?) and Spike is a welcomed (sort of) guest inside the family home. 

Black and White, like that little cow she handles - I like that. 

Riley= declined invitation
Angel= abandoned invitation (Giles insisted that Angel tell/talk to her, right?  At any rate, he kind of shows up, but stealthily leaves...)
Spike= begged for invitation.

Hmm...

I love 'Pangs', not only does the teasing banter between Buffy & Spike (I loved that casual swat on the back of Spike's head, obviously not meant to hurt) appear to signal the beginning of a fundamental attraction, but I think it has some of the funniest lines in the series e.g. 'You made a bear' - I didn't mean to' - 'Undo it, undo it'... Incidentally I can believe Spike being afraid of the bear. It's a big ferocious beast, and remember that as a young Victorian man he would have been aware of captured 'dancing bears' in London and could easily have had a bad experience. Being tied up and unable to defend himself, he must have felt particularly vulnerable.

I thought Riley's refusal to join Buffy's 'family' for Thanksgiving was showing that he wasn't going to become part of the gang while Spike's inclusion was signalling the beginning of his acceptance. Particularly at the end when Buffy killed Hus and Spike asked 'did we win?' - clearly identifying himself with the group.  I was devastated to be proved wrong. Oh, and Spikez-tart... Spike does go back into Buffy & Willow's dorm room... in Something Blue while they were looking for Willow... holding up that appalling 'girly' skirt... so he was clearly not disinvited.

Angel turning up but staying away from Buffy signified to me the true end of their relationship. He felt uncomfortable approaching the gang as he was no longer part of  the group, and didn't approach Buffy at all as he was already 'detatched' from the relationship.  I particularly liked his jealous 'who's that guy?' to Willow when he spies Buffy with Riley. Very 'ex-boyfriendy'. Jealous of the 'new guy' but already sufficiently 'ex' to not feel impelled to do anything about it.  I felt it was a kind of 'handing over' to the 'normal' boyfriend that Angel kept telling her she should want. Yeah... right.  I was disappointed that Giles colluded with Angel instead of telling Buffy the truth. Another example of the way the men in her life tended to disregard her right to determine her own life by doing things 'for her own good'.

Clanger: Spike saying 'you'd think that one of you would bleed a little' (or words to that effect) when in fact Buffy was hit in the arm by an arrow and he should have been able to smell Slayer blood. Although her wound miraculously disappeared by the time they sat down to dinner.

I can't remember exactly what that skirt looked like, but was it the same one he had the bot wear?  

The skirt isn't the same, but the spirit of the skirt is identical.

If I recall that skirt is very "girly and the color of passion" but also like most of the female costumes of this season very feminine, ethnic quality, back to earth and fruit theme. 

Another great character connection is the food and drinking lines - Spike uses his drinking and food lines with Harmony:  sugar, foam latte, mon petite creme brulee (Harmony can never be thought of as petite) and the "big daddy" reference.   We go to the future episode when Riley and Xander are talking about Buffy and Angel history and they use the same "creme brulee" phrase again:  consumption of basic needs as food but also of sexual drive and passion.   Riley and Spike also share the same quality of understanding and, IMO, love from Buffy; she described them both as "a good man." 

Good points about Angel and how they have both moved on to different worlds - which is emphasis with his description of being there to protect and do his duty (same as Giles) and his not there for personal stuff.  Angel uses that same "not personal time" theme and Buffy used the "ex girl" treatment in the future episode when Riley attacks Angel and has his personal insecurity melt-down.

Joss Whedon always works in the "big picture" mode - from the start, I do believe that Spike was the real target arc for Buffy - but it was by necessity going to have to go through all that "cleansing" journey.  In the Write Interview Joss described Spike as being a good guy (presumably the good man inside to resurrect) and more evolved than Angel.

It's funny--for thinking Angel was soulless again, their reactions seemed pretty mild.

"It's funny--for thinking Angel was soulless again, their reactions seemed pretty mild."

Must be some of that Buffy-Riley love vibes that are reaching out to all the Scoobies - even Spike gets some of the softer side of Buffy goodness.  Seeing this more cordial and not  totally antagonistic relationship between all of the inner circle and Spike is for me a lot more interesting.  I love that "women's touch" line between Spike and Giles - 

If I recall that skirt is very "girly and the color of passion" but also like most of the female costumes of this season very feminine, ethnic quality, back to earth and fruit theme.   The skirt was orange with a gathered waist and a ruffle around the bottom.  I'm really having a hard time imaging Buffy putting it on.  Actually, Buffy gets into khaki colors and animal prints this season.  I will hold forth more on Something Blue.  The Buffybot's skirt was long, pink and pleated.  It's my theory that it belonged to Warren's mother.

Spike and food - Spike is very oral - he sucks his blood out of a straw.  He eats his blood with Weeatabix so it's crunchy.  Eats human food like chocolates and peanut butter and crackers (something Angel never does)  He also refers to Dawn in food/blood nicknames - platelet, niblet, little bit.  I'm sure there's a deep Freudian theme there somewhere.

Must be some of that Buffy-Riley love vibes that are reaching out to all the Scoobies

Oh no--I meant...if Angelus were really back, right in your face with his hands on you, the reaction simply being, "You're evil again, aren't you?" really isn't appropriate.

he sucks his blood out of a straw.

Only when he's tied up

He also refers to Dawn in food/blood nicknames - platelet, niblet, little bit.  I'm sure there's a deep Freudian theme there somewhere.

Or maybe they're "Jossian" hints--

Platelet: "It's all about the blood."

Little Bit/Niblet (and I'm sure Bite Size was in there somewhere): Well, little bit of Buffy, wasn't she?

But it is funny that all of his pet names to Dawn involve food   But he hardly wanted to eat her, so it was probably for the irony.

You'd think Spike would have had something better for the bot to wear, since he stole Buffy's clothes and all.  I always believed the skirt belonged to Harmony, it looks like something she would own.

"I'm really having a hard time imaging Buffy putting it on.  Actually, Buffy gets into khaki colors and animal prints this season."

Thanks for the clarification on the skirt - checked it out again, I don't see any of the female leads wearing that style  and Buffy would never wear anything like that.  She does wear a lot of those beige and browns, but in general, all the female leads wear what I think would be considered more feminine styles.  Buffy and her animal skin coats I suppose are to connect with her more integrated life of the Slayer and her new male companion - by the time that we get to the finale and the first episode of the next season she is into the Slayer/Huntress phase.
This season has for my taste some of the worst ever costumes and some very lovely outfits - I especially love the Tara costume in "Restless."

 

But it is funny that all of his pet names to Dawn involve food   But he hardly wanted to eat her, so it was probably for the irony.  - It's very funny.  He calls her Bitty Buffy when they steal the demon eggs together and I think he calls her pint size, too.  Maybe.

LOL Well, little bit isn't really food related, it's actually quite derogatory,  bit being an English derogatory term for a woman (short for bit of skirt or bit of fluff).

Huh. That's interesting. I wonder if Joss knew that? I've always assumed that bit was a shortened version of "nibblet" or the "Bitty Buffy" that he used a few times.  It seems strange that Spike would use a derogatory term for Dawn, particularly one with sexual connotations.

Well, as far as I can remember the only time he ever actually called her 'little bit' was in OMWF when he was pissed off at Buffy and he said "I hope you dance 'til you burn. You and the little bit." And as we know, when Spike is pissed off or hurt he says some pretty hurtful things.

Having said that, many such derogatory terms do get used just as general terminology like bird, bint etc. Doesn't always mean the person using them means them in a derogatory way.

Quite true. He can be nasty when he's hurt or angry.  If that's the only time he said it, then it may have been meant to be unkind or derogatory. 

It probably was meant to be derogatory in OMWF, cause he looked pissed as hell, but I doubt anyone but Giles got it.  I mean, Buffy thought that "toth" was a British way to call someone stupid

However, I too thought that the "bit" (which he often called her I'm pretty sure--not little bit, but just "bit" ) was just a shortened form of Nibblet.

ETA: Spike has called Dawn...

(Got most of these from here: http://vrya.net/bdb/aka.php?char=21 but remembered "pigeon" on my own)

Bite sized one, Bitty Buffy, Little Red Riding Hood, Nibblet, Platelet, Sweet Bit, Bit, pigeon, Little Bit...

The only one that could be construed as being derogatory in the way he said it was maybe Little Bit, but the rest?  Not really.

I can't see Spike referring to Dawn as Little Bit in the 'bit of skirt' sense at all, it'd be offensive.  I don't think he sees her as a sex object, no matter how pissed off he was.

"I can't see Spike referring to Dawn as Little Bit in the 'bit of skirt' sense at all, it'd be offensive.  I don't think he sees her as a sex object, no matter how pissed off he was."

I would agree with you Lou - I always had the impression that Spike was hurt and totally pissed off at Buffy - If Dawn had been the one that he had to save, I think he would have jumped right in for her as he did for Buffy. 

I agree with the two posts above- I can't picture Spike making a derogutory comment like that about Dawn on purpose, even if he's pissed off at Buffy.

Well, little bit isn't really food related - I think little bit, nibblet, even platelet (a sort of pun) refer to the fact that Dawn is small, so not much blood in her to satisfy a vampire's hunger.