I smack my hands together and smile because I can't believe we never discussed this episode.  I don't think any true Spuffy lover can say they don't love this episode, it's just chock full of Spuffy goodness.  So here goes:

Initial scene – Oz left behind his photos of Willow. That should have been a tip off for Willow that she was being left behind permanently.  This is a twist on the old war movies - soldier looks fondly at girlfriend's photo and dies immediately thereafter.

 

Buffy clothes show her love interest in two men – Buffy appears in Khaki/army green and animal prints in her first scene with Riley.  In the graveyard scene she wears black leather, but her red hood peaks out from underneath while she makes doubtful remarks re Riley. She is wearing her red hood and black pants in the scene with Spike in bathtub. In the middle scenes at Giles apartment, she's wearing a black top (Spike) and green khaki pants (Riley).  In her final scene with Riley, she's wearing a cream colored sweater and white blouse (not Spike clothes).

 

Truth spell – Giles performs the truth spell and Spike runs out – is he under a truth spell for everything afterwards? Does the spell get broken by Willow?  I don't think she does break the spell.  I think you have to look at every thing he says afterward as being “true.” After the spell:

 

• He finds the commando lab entrance, but Buffy doesn’t believe him. We find out later that it’s under the school somewhere.
• He says “You're not gonna do anything to me. You don't got the stones.” True
• “I get this spell reversed, they'll be finding your body for weeks.” What is he talking about? He’d have to get the chip out to be able to kill Buffy. Just a goof? Or does he mean the truth spell?
• “Just say yes, and make me the happiest man on earth.” True, although not at that moment.
• “Well, it's almost like you're my father-in-law, in'nt?” True, Giles becomes somewhat like a father to Spike.
• “This is the crack team that foils my every plan? I am deeply shamed.” True LOL

 

After the spell was supposedly reversed:

• “Yeah.. well I'm not the one who wanted, "Wind Beneath My Wings" for the first dance.”

 

Spike the Old Fashioned – During Willow’s spell he wants Buffy to stop working after they’re married, wants to protect her from getting hurt by demons and objects to the whole “Girl Power bit.” None of these things, as well as Spike and Buffy being in love, are actually included in Willow’s spell that they should just get married.

 

Car/sex – Buffy admits that she isn’t “mixy” with driving, which is metaphor for sex. 

 

Willow – doesn’t listen when Giles gives her advice re not doing magic by herself while she’s upset. She’s already showing a great deal of arrogance here.

 

Buffy – Man I Love, Living the Dream, etc. Willow only said get married, she didn’t say love. The others are willing to attribute their problems to Willow and think rationally. Buffy maintains that there’s nothing wrong – she has a natural immunity.

 

Anya – forgets the Arashmahar ritual, symbolic of her separation from her demon past.

 

Spike is not shown much in the crypt scene. He doesn’t think he can fight so presumably, he’s getting beaten up. Finally, (the audience sees that ) he gets thrown and gets bump on the head? When Buffy comes to see about him, he calls her Slayer – is he out of the spell and kisses her anyway?

 

Detail Giles car – the Citroen? Who in the world would detail that old piece of junk? Giles, I guess.

 

Riley/Buffy final conversation – You’re Insane. Yeah. 

 

You really thought I was marrying a guy named Spike? Okay, doesn’t Riley have to pause when he does meet up with Spike later?

 

Wind beneath my wings – Spike mentions the song to embarrass Buffy, but if he is still under the truth spell, then he seems to be saying that Buffy thinks that [Spike will] “always be my hero.”

 

Is Buffy right and Spike doesn’t really want to be let go? He runs away, but not very far. In the beginning of Hush, he’s lounging around Giles’ apartment and not making any attempt to run away. He doesn’t even attempt to get away from Xander’s basement.  

Haven't watched this one for a long time, but it is, of course, a favorite! This will be a long thread - I'm predicting. :)

Truth spell – Giles performs the truth spell and Spike runs out – is he under a truth spell for everything afterwards? Does the spell get broken by Willow?  I don't think she does break the spell.  I think you have to look at every thing he says afterward as being “true.” After the spell:

 

• He finds the commando lab entrance, but Buffy doesn’t believe him. We find out later that it’s under the school somewhere.
• He says “You're not gonna do anything to me. You don't got the stones.” True
• “I get this spell reversed, they'll be finding your body for weeks.” What is he talking about? He’d have to get the chip out to be able to kill Buffy. Just a goof? Or does he mean the truth spell?
• “Just say yes, and make me the happiest man on earth.” True, although not at that moment.
• “Well, it's almost like you're my father-in-law, in'nt?” True, Giles becomes somewhat like a father to Spike.
• “This is the crack team that foils my every plan? I am deeply shamed.” True LOL

 I don't even remember the truth spell. Will have to rewatch to see what I think.  Does Spike know at this point that he has a chip? Perhaps that's what he meant by a spell reversed - he thinks he's been spelled into being unable to hunt?  Car/Sex? Man, that one went right by me...
I don't think Spike calling Buffy Slayer is out of spell behavior. She is still the Slayer, even when they are engaged. And she's currently fighting demons, so her slayer skills are certainly on display just then. I do love to posit that they were both pretending a bit when the spell ended mid-kiss, though. :)

Giles, as blind as he was, was unable to actually finish the truth spell.  I agree with Slayme--he probably didn't know it was a chip, but thought it was a spell that was messing with him.  And Buffy did want "Wind Beneath My Wings," hence her guilty face.

And isn't there some other "car" innuendo made in some ep with Riley talking about taking Buffy driving or some crap like that?

Spike wanting to stop Buffy from fighting...it's funny cause that isn't Spike--Spike un-hocus pocused with (and later when he's genuinely in love with her) wouldn't want that necessarily...maybe this was just him putting a pre-emptive (sp?) strike on the whole "death wish" thing.

As for Spike not trying to get away, well, why would he?  He thinks he's 100% defenseless and Giles and Xander feed him and what have you.  And since we only see him forced to wash his clothes at Xander's, was Giles also (grudingly) doing his laundry?  Could be....

Oh and yeah--Slayer is just a nick/pet name for Buffy. 

And I think that had they been alone in that crypt when Willow ended her spell--all that spitting and "yuck!" business wouldn't have happened.  At all.  They only feign embarassment in front of the others.  By themselves?  Well, I think they would have gotten somewhere...yep.

Return to your room without supper and watch that episode.  Spike is staying with Giles, chained up while they figure out if he can hurt people, etc.  Giles has already been whammied by Willow and can't see.  He performs the truth spell and drops the key to Spike's handcuffs.  Spike frees himself and runs out.

I get this spell reversed,   This line just leaped out at me (after only hearing it ten times or so.)  He really should be referring to the chip, but he says spell.  At first I thought it was a mistake by the writers, but I'm not so sure.

Spike calling Buffy Slayer/mid kiss - Look at Spike's face when he says Slayer.  It's almost like he's surprised that she's kissing him.  I think they were pretending to be disgusted, too. 

Will have to rewatch. It's been way too long. :) Maybe tomorrow...

Great to see the Something Blue discussion started - will watch episode again tonight - one quick thing that does come to mind is how one of the future fundamental problems with Buffy-Riley relationship is reflected in the fight scene at the crypt - Buffy looking out for her weakened love interest and being distracted during battle.  This subject of weaker male is exactly what made such a problem for Riley - even if he tells Buffy later in their relationship that he is perfectly find and accepting of her superior strength and abilities, his actions speak a different reality.  

Riley and Buffy have that scene where he goes all  poetic about driving and the scene goes into metaphor and romantic conotations - funny thing is however that one thing that Buffy is always shown as not being good at is driving -   

 

He really should be referring to the chip, but he says spell.

They don't know that it's a chip at this point, they don't find that out until later when Buffy gets involved with Riley the Initiative.

That's what I was thinking - he has no idea yet what is wrong. It's logical to assume it's a spell with all the magic flying around in those episodes.

Giles does not finish the truth spell - that is when Spike does his escape to find the Initiative entrance - I love that scene between Buffy and Spike, shows a softer side of Buffy and how frustrated Spike is - he is not escaping from but going to find something. 

he probably didn't know it was a chip, but thought it was a spell that was messing with him.  - Maybe. When he's in the Initiative, doesnt the other vampire tell him that they do experiments on the vamps and demons after they drug them with the hyped up blood?  Also, he knows his head hurts when he goes back to Harmony and has sex with her and in Pangs, he tells Buffy and Giles that he's been to the vet (surgery) and can't run with the other puppies anymore (metaphor is that he's had his surgery and is neutered at least in the biting department.)  No mention of spells and besides the Initiative is into the big technology thing, not into spells, although that isn't clear to the gang at this time. 

So, I guess the question is, when does Spike  find out it's a chip in his head?  Buffy, in Doomed, tells Riley that she guesses the secret group he's in performs experiments on the demons and vamps.  I couldn't find any mention of chips in heads until This Years Girl when Buffy says to Riley:  I am looking for brain washy chips in your head.  This is an obvious reference back to Spike.  Since Riley has been incommunicado in the Initiative after he got skewered, she is worried that they gave him a brain chip, too. 

The first time I saw Spike specifically mention the chip was in Who Are You, in his little conversation with Faith who's in Buffy's body:

Spike: Was. And as soon as I get this chip out of my head, I'll be a vampire again. But until then, I'm just as helpless as a kitten up a tree. So why don't you sod off?





Giles spell is kind of broken up and some words are missing:

Giles: Elobe, enemy, be now, quiet.
Spike: You know.. not too keen about this spell stuff. Tends to be a bit unpredictable.
Giles: Yes, well, you might have thought about that sooner. Um.. (Continues reading) Let your decietful tongue be.. (Has trouble with the words) Be.. Uh.. Let no.. Untruths.. Be spoken..

Riley/driving speech - Riley takes Buffy on a picnic in this episode and talks about taking her on a drive and it gets very sexual sounding.  Buffy calls him on it and asks if he's talking about driving.

the driving speech goes into intense looks and sexual implications and it all ends up with Buffy agreeing to take that ride with him - let him change her life.

What's with all those stuffed animals in their dorm - Buffy has a pile of stuffed toy animals on her bed. 

he knows his head hurts when he goes back to Harmony and has sex with her

He most certainly does NOT have sex with Harmony! He is weakened from lack of blood, and certainly tries to get into her pants good graces, but she pulls a stake on him and tells him she doesn't "need you to complete me." This is all in Pangs, though, so should be in the previous discussion, I guess.

I don't think the truth spell was completed. There wasn't any indication that it was, like flaring candles flames or lightning bolt eye balls. However, that doesn't mean Spike wasn't telling the truth all those times. He's usually brutally honest. He's just playing his Initiative knowledge close to the vest because he's not sure he can trust the Scoobs once his sole bargaining chip is played out.

Here is another thing about Buffy and her involvement with Riley and the Initiative - While Buffy sees Riley as this wonderful nice, solid and safe man - there is a lot of hidden darkness surrounding his life with the Initiative. 

Taking both episodes together - how far are the commandos and the Initiative prepared to go with their quarantine process?  What would have happened to Willow if Riley had not stopped the quarantine process?  While later in the season, civilians/scoobies do learn about  Riley and his being an Initiative Commando,  the question about containment and quarantine is a big red flag about this organization - at least it is to me.  I have a very hard time thinking of the commandos and the Imitative as the good guys.   Later on Willow will ask Buffy if she isn't going to fast with her association with Riley's organization but Buffy is once again so totally wrapped up with "a boy friend" that she will make life miserable for herself.  What's the big difference in her pattern of love relationships between Angel/Angelus and Riley - it seems like she is simply changing from Angel/Angelus darkness to Riley sunlight but her basic problem of total involvement and commitment to a love relationship, IMO, go into a not particularly good place.    

The Initiative:

Commando: Bag it, tag it. We're gone. Sir... Civilian. Could have turned.

(Referring to Willow cowering in a corner.)

RILEY: Leave her.

Commando: We can't neglect quarantine, sir!

Commando: Stop her!

(A commando grabs her.)

Commando: She's contained.

BUFFY: Contain this!


Pangs:

FORREST: It's neutered. The implant works great. He can't hurt a single living thing.

RILEY: As long as he knows about the initiative, he's a threat. We do this the professor's way.

Buffy and Spike were so happy together during the spell - and what an awesome scene couple they made - for lot's of viewers, after SB, it was a big step to go with Buffy-Riley as the primary romantic couple - they simply lacked the powerful screen presence that Buffy-Spike had.

Buffy agreeing to take that ride with him - let him change her life. - I think she's just agreeing to have sex. 

Spike and Harmony have sex after he escapes (The Initiative):

SPIKE: Uh, yeah, and get used to it. Big daddy's home. We're gonna go wherever you want, do whatever you want, kill whoever you want. Starting with the slayer. And after that, it's all you and me, my little mentholated pack of smokes.
HARMONY: Spikey. Let's leave the slayer alone. You know she'll only slap you around, and I can do that.
SPIKE: Ow! Uh, no, see, ow. The head, love. Watch the head. Whoa, watch it!
(Harmony pushes Spike backwards on the bed and the scene cuts.)

The scene you're thinking of is in Pangs when she whips out the stake and Spike falls out of bed. 

There wasn't any indication that it was, like flaring candles flames or lightning bolt eye balls. However, that doesn't mean Spike wasn't telling the truth all those times. He's usually brutally honest  Well, sure, if you're going to use logic.  :)  It could be a sneaky spell.  As for Spike telling the truth, he's about half truth and half outrageous lies. 

Buffy is agreeing to future sexual relationship but she is, IMO, also  seeing Riley as a way to change her life and love relationships dynamics - chasing that elusive normal life that she longs for.

There is also the symbols for Willow's change from Oz to Tara like the Lesbian Banner is Riley is putting up - Plus Willow wears that very pretty butterflies blue sweater.  We have the theme about Willow not liking Anya much and we have D'hoffryn telling Willow that her magic and the anger, like future Dark Willow, is responsible for hurting her fiends. 

Buffy is agreeing to future sexual relationship but she is seeing Riley relationship to change her life with her love relationships.

Gonna have to disagree, and agree with Tart here--that innuendo strictly revolved around sex.  Sure, maybe it was some kind of writer foreshadowing stuff, but in the strict context of the characters...Riley isn't aware of there being a need for change within Buffy's personal relationships, beyond the one night stand with a sleazeball. 

Their conversation may be about sexual tensions, but I think that it also has implications about Buffy's desire for change.  This episode is heavy on changes coming for Buffy, Willow, Spike, Riley and to a lesser degree Giles, Xander and Anya.   These writers are very clever with how they use words and visuals - they even have Riley putting up the Lesbian banner - why would Riley be doing that?  Also, why make his ending remarks about the night (Buffy's love life with Angel/Angelus) and then end with his line about "change everything..."  Just as aspects of Buffy and Spike under the spell can be applied to their future, so can they reflect on Buffy-Riley future.


RILEY: It's just because you haven't had a good experience yet. You can have the best time in a car. It's not about getting somewhere. You have to take your time. Forget about everything. Just.. relax. Let it wash over you. The air.. motion.. Just, let it roll.

BUFFY: We are talking about driving, right?

RILEY: Thought I was.

RILEY: I'm taking you. Some night when it's warm. Up past the vineyards - it's going to change everything for you.

BUFFY: I'm in.

While dating Riley was the anti-Angel experience, it didn't actually change anything for Buffy.

Lesbian Banner is Riley is putting up  - Since neither Willow or Tara are around for that banner raising, I think it means that Riley is a Big Girl.  :)

Up past the vineyards - Hm, Riley never actually takes her anywhere besides his funky old frat house dorm room which probably smells like dirty gym socks, does he? 

Riley isn't aware of there being a need for change - right, he doesn't know about the Evil Angel story yet. 

While dating Riley was the anti-Angel experience, it didn't actually change anything for Buffy.   Made her even more skittish, more secretive and made her want to commit suicide if you consider her jump off the tower that way.  She did get laid on a pretty regular basis, much to Spike's annoyance.

Not on camera, except for the whole group going to the beach at the beginning of S5. It's easy to assume they might have explored nice areas during the summer. Most Californians are outdoor people.

See, I LOVE driving, so Riley's talk about getting in a car chimes with me right away. I grew up on road trips and couldn't wait to get my license. I drove all over SoCal while I had my car. It was awesome to get in the car on a nice night and just drive really fast on a clear freeway. Like therapy. Like Jack Sparrow saying what a ship stands for - a car is freedom.

What's with all those stuffed animals in their dorm - Buffy has a pile of stuffed toy animals on her bed.  - Sort of like Drusilla and her dolls

Well if Buffy went on a freedom ride with Riley - she sure ends up still in her great big self-imposed inner demon reality later in the series.  And great point about the car and being in the driver's seat equals freedom - Only problem with their driving metaphor as it reflects on Buffy and Riley is that 1.  Buffy never really takes up driving and 2.  Riley does not really want to be a passenger when their relationship becomes complicated with inequality between his strengths contrasted with hers.

I have to say that having Spike take on his William protector quality was a nice Spuffy kinda moment -  What I like especially was how serious he becomes when the battle with the demons starts getting really dangerous - plus, nice touch how they so easily team up with moving that huge sarcophagus, or whatever that large object is.

"Spike the Old Fashioned – During Willow’s spell he wants Buffy to stop working after they’re married, wants to protect her from getting hurt by demons and objects to the whole “Girl Power bit.” None of these things, as well as Spike and Buffy being in love, are actually included in Willow’s spell that they should just get married."

I picked up on this, Spikez_tart, but I assumed that as marriage is a human institution the spell affected the humanity in Spike, bringing William to the fore. He was a real romantic and wouldn't have married for anything but true love... and the same could be said for Buffy. This means that while the spell didn't specify that they should be in love, the only way either of them would have contemplated marriage would have been if they were in love. William would still have his Victorian attitude that the husband was the provider and would disapprove of a married woman working. Also we know William was very 'family' oriented so his immediate resolution to help Giles makes sense.

Of course Spike came through a bit when he went poking in Buffy's wardrobe... ;)

I always think this was a lost opportunity for Spike to discover he could hit demons... so much of that season could have been better if he had. He could have found his new purpose in unlife earlier and gone out with Buffy to deal with the Gentlemen...

I also wish Buffy had remembered her declaration from 'Pangs' the week before: "I like my evil like I like my men. Evil! You know, straight up black-hat-tie-you-to-the-train-tracks-soon-my-electro-ray-will-destroy- Metropolis bad!"

So much would have been better......

It would have been great for the Spike-Buffy Spuffy fans, but we have to remember that this episode was very much in the theme of coming transitions and moving on to the new love arc for the characters - Thus Riley had to be the featured male lead and companion for Buffy however Spike was always a presence and his future relationship up to "The Gift" is always hinted at. 

Spike finding out that he can get around the identity problems from the Initiative chip now, I think would have been too soon -

I agree nmcil--by not knowing about what the chip would allow him to do, it allowed him more time at Giles' place, and more time to bond (though fat lot of good it did, in the end).  If he hadn't had that time with them, their relations down the road with one another would have been that much worse throughout the rest of the series.

Also, going to go ahead and disagree about the separation of William and Spike--Spike is William (though William was not Spike--not until post soul restoration anyway).  Our minds--our memories--make up the majority of the pie of who we are.

"Also, going to go ahead and disagree about the separation of William and Spike--Spike is William (though William was not Spike--not until post soul restoration anyway).  Our minds--our memories--make up the majority of the pie of who we are."

You are right and I don't mean to suggest that Spike is not made up of both - one of the prime reason that I never accepted the proposition from Buffy and all that Angel is not Angelus.  He may be a transfored Angelus, but he is not, IMO, a separate entity - If Angel has memories of Angelus, they must, IMO, be connected.  It's like you state, William is not Spike, but Spike is Spike/William.

Oh, I wasn't referencing what you'd said nmcil :)

The distinction of Angel/us is only really made so with Buffy and her friends.  Angel himself makes "I" statements in reference to his unsouled counterpart.