My season one DVD has commentaries, but I don't like listening to them, anyway.

I just finished watching both episodes, and here are things I found interesting, Angel's
personality is odd here, he's not the broody vampire we know, he's a little bit like Spike, isn't that peculiar?

Xander seemed more heartbroken by Jesse's death than Willow was. It also hit that

Xander was more scared for Jesse's wellbeing throughout the episode, while Willow

didn't seem to care much. Does that mean that Willow wasn't as close to Jesse as Xander was?

Xander: "I don't like vampires. I'm gonna take a stand and say they're not good." Giles: "You listen to me! Jesse is dead! You have to remember that when you see him, you're not looking at your friend. You're looking at the thing that killed him." Now it's obvious where the vampire hate came from.

Willow's vengeful side was presented right in the first episode when she made Cordelia delete her essay on purpose.

What the hell is wrong with Darla? She's acting less scary than Harmony.

Do you think Angel telling Buffy that he has no friends was the reason she became

attracted to him? Because up until now, she couldn't stand the sight of him, but right after this scene, she couldn't wait to throw herself at him.

my preference would also be discussions without the commentary - we can discuss the commentary after -

“Do you know what it's like to have a friend?”

The facade, the suit Angel's been wearing of what he think he needs to be in order to help Buffy, instantly slips. We see the loneliness he's been through (albeit, we don't know how long it's been). Buffy, in turn, instantly softens towards him, feeling sorry for him. It's not that he's all cryptic guy, but the “been alone” factor, which she's recently familiar with. I'm assuming her nightly activities at her previous school effected her social life, and she loses them, and all that she had in that regard. She's lonely too.
 
And all those “daddy issues,” and the fact that Angel's older, probably has something to do with that as well. A man, who's destined to leave...just like dear ol' dad. Perhaps that's jumping the gun as well, but I stand by my former point of the whole loneliness factor.
 
Xander-- It seems that the poor boy has always felt inadequate. I don't recall the exact quote, but he feels less than a man from point one, and this continues all throughout the series. He finally feels better about himself in season five when he's separated into two entities, loses it again with the Anya, not-a-wedding debacle, and finds it again with work, and then loses it again with his eye, and Buffy sends him away from the final fight. Anyway, watching this again reminded me why I liked Xander so much.
 
“Jesse, we used to be buds. Don't you remember?”
“You're like a shadow to me now.”

Then there's the whole Jesse referring to himself in the third person when Xander calls him out by name, and the exclamation of “I'm a new man!”
 
In spite of Giles' warnings, Xander still tries to reach out to his childhood friend (though I did find it weird he and Willow's concern beforehand was more for Buffy than the guy they grew up with...). I think that is what makes him prejudice against vamps, and not just what Giles had to say. It kinda solidified it being true—his BFF turned on him once he was turned. If someone so close to him couldn't have an iota of feeling for him, regardless of them being different species now (even though that isn't always the case with newly turned vamps, as we know), it'd make me bitter and prejudice too.
 
Darla--Is not atypical for her character exactly. She's used to being superior, except in regards to the Master. She comes across Buffy, who's wicked strong, and she gets flustered. How many slayers has she come across exactly? A big fat zero (though I love her use of guns—that was wicked awesome). Her school girl outfit is also not out of the ordinary—we learn later how she loves to dress the part (this seems to be a theme—her, Angel, and in a way, Buffy).

Willow—wow, she's so...blase about her best friend being dead. This shocks me, cause she nearly has a nervous breakdown at the death of Ms. Calendar. I'm confused. No lip tremble? Watery eyes? A soft “no,” or something? Huge oversight, I think. It's like she's a robot. And following some strange man into a cemetery, and then following that up with a crypt? Really something someone with an iota of common sense wouldn't do. I know, I know—carpe diem cause tomorrow you might be dead or whatever, but still, it's Willow. Dancing with him, maybe even letting him take you to a dark corner in the Bronze, but it seems atypical to me.

Buffy--Was a lot more quippy and sarcastic back in the beginning. Also, I suspect they (the costume people) padded SMG up. I don't have much more to say about her character, unlike the others. The changes in her that come along are overt and easily explainable, so I'll focus on the others.

Joyce--Boy, was that woman oblivious. Although, this may be jumping the gun, since I watched “The Witch” as well. That woman was all about work, which is understandable cause hey, single mother and all, but she kinda rebuffs Buffy when she tries to spend more time with her.

Giles-- Reminds me of Wesely.  Yeah, that's all I got out of him

It was great seeing these episodes again. Plus having so many more Whedon scripts in these early seasons will be great to have as references. I fell in love with Cordelia all over again, she was always one of my favorite characters – they wrote such great lines for her. And I had a wonderful school flash back moment and smile when I realized that I wore the same style of jumper that Willow is wearing.

Eowyn315:

I agree - especially since WTTHM established his sense of loyalty to friends and joining the battle even without any special powers and Jesse’s being killed and turned was his introduction to vampires.

I was reminded that from the start, Buffy's connections with the Scoobies made her work and duties as The Slayer more effective, and extended her life.

It’s a good thing that he took on a different persona and personality because this Angel would have lasted as "interesting" for a tiny bit of time. He was the mysterious older man to Buffy but not to the viewers. He may have had interest as The Handsome Male Lead Man to younger audience but not so much for the more mature viewers. They all look so young, beautiful and handsome – and how about Giles with that dark hair.

I plan to watch all the Whedon episodes this week.

Here is my primary question, and I cannot believe that is made such a point of, at the very first and second episodes, and then given such a different treatment throughout the entire season. Granted that there is probably an explanation later in the season but I have not watched these earlier ones in a long time.

WHEN AND WHERE do we go from Demons having and using souls to Demons are EVIL-NO GOOD CAN EXIST because of the not having a soul-Vampire have no souls. Is this all explained later in the season? Does the Buffy Data Base have this information?

Considering how much Buffy and Giles and the Scoobies make of the all important Having A Soul – is what they really meant - only having a human soul? I am pretty sure that the Master and Giles both give out statements about Demons using and passing on souls. Or did I just get it all wrong –

Why, if Angel is suppose to be a big helper to Buffy, does he not join the battle – I guess we are to presume that if Buffy is about to be killed, only then would he actually join in the actually fighting.

I have to go watch these again, make sure my paints didn’t cause ear or brain damage.

 

I always wondered that myself. Giles and the Master did say that demons, vampires had souls in the beginning and I always wondered why that changed, to 'demons cannot love and have no soul.' Maybe when the writers decided to make Angel a love interest of Buffy's?

Even Darla in the episode 'Angel' clearly states that vampires can love. I think it went something like, 'the saddest thing in the world in loving someone who use to love you.' That seemed pretty clear to me.

But maybe they did mean only a human soul, and the Master and Giles are talking about a demon soul or essence.

I also agree that Jesse should have been mentioned again. Willow and Xander don't even seem to grieve for him. We're shown them grieving for Buffy, and apparently they had known Jesse a hell of a lot longer than Buffy. But not even a tear was shown for him.

The last pure demon created the vampire hybrid and the demon soul and human blood create the vampire – the human soul must then go into the ether or another dimension. It is a very interesting question, this vampire hybridization. The vampire clearly retains memories of their human life – is human life made up of only earth bound memories and the soul a spiritual/universal force that only? If the vampire forces out the human soul, and the human form retain the memories, then the eliminated human soul must lose that earth bound connection.

I don’t see the logical connections:
 

Demons take over the human as a vessel,
human memory remains in the hybrid,
Vamp has totally taken over the human,
Vamp are soulless, (demons, it as been established have a soul)
Vamps, as soulless creatures have no capacity for being creatures of goodness and light.

If Angel is possible, he would be possible in the system of reincarnation – the universal force that creates and then returns the human  to the earthly plain (without previous memories of human life) how do we have Angel with human memories in tact if his human form was killed and his soul lost to exist as a spirit or universal force. It seems to me that the series got stuck in the "have your cake and eat it to" with their position on Soul equals the separation between capability to reason concepts of Good/Positive Life Force and Evil/Negative Life Force.

This having to ask and trying to answer question of mythic and religious ideas has always been the most interesting and important thing in the Buffyverse.

While I am thinking about it, I also want to get back to Riley Finn and the future arc of The Initiative. I do think that Joss Whedon is making connections to the real world and political currents in our society and world. His reference to Black Plague used as the first biological warfare, IMO, speak to our world. He had countless possibilities to reference with that teacher, but he chose this very particular theme.

Well, in season three, can't remember what episode, when Willow's vampire self from another dimension came around, Buffy tried to tell her that the person she is isn't that vampire. But that was clearly untrue because later on we saw a lot of Vampire Willow in human Willow, when she was evil and not the least her relationships with women.

Also, Angel tried to say that the person being destroyed when the vampire set in wasn't true, he started to tell Willow that but Buffy cut him off with a look. Personally I've always felt that a vampire is the person, and that the soul is sort of a metaphor for a 'conscience' and that who you are as a vampire is who you would have been as a human, uninhibited and your darker instincts brought forward. William's ability to love as a human is shown enhanced with Spike, with his mother, Drusilla, Buffy, and even Dawn. Liam's cruelness and callousness as a human is unencumbered without the little conscience he had as a human. Drusilla is still somewhat the same, turned insane as a human and kept insane as a demon. If it was only memories and a demon took over, then wouldn't the vampire Drusilla be sane, as sane as a cold blooded killer can be? Harmony is pretty much the same shallow, self absorbed girl she always was, and a pretty bad villain when it comes down to it.

I don't think that's it's only evil people who make evil vampires. William was a good man, and Spike despite everything he will do later on in the series stemming from his love of Buffy, was evil. Drusilla was almost pure innocence and she's evil. But I also think that a vampire is the person, just without a conscience and all their darker thoughts and maybe some of it is the influence or changes the demon brings to the body that it keeps animated.
 

Why this theme of Soulfulness in vamps and humans is particularly significant in its connection to the later events in the Buffy/Spike relationship and the Scoobies/Spike relations.   It is certainly true and  reasonable that the writers change the Buffyverse world to allow for the story they want to tell, but I do wish that this theme of souls had been better attended to.  This having of a soul is such an important theme of the entire series and to the rules of engagment of the two major characters, The Slayer and her guide Watcher.  With such importance given to the lack of a soul of the vampires, the theme of Good vs Evil, and the soul as a measure of the "right to life," there should have been a better connection to the first and second season. 

Watched Angel tonight and I was reminded of how important the theme of Young Girls and Young Love was to the earlier seasons.  Young people love just as hard as any adult - and Buffy was so taken with Angel.  Interesting to see again how much passion and heart she has, even to the point of offering her neck  to  Angel.  That offering of her neck and life will sure backfire on her first sexual encounter.  

 

To completely change the subject to something I've been thinking about in a lame way for some time ---

In Welcome and Harvest, we see the beginning of the New Man – Bad Man – Good Man theme that crops up continually throughout Buffy and Angel.

To be a New Man is not a good thing:

Jesse: (jumps up) Okay... Let's deal with this. Jesse was an excruciating loser who couldn't get a date with anyone in the sighted community! Look at me. I'm a new man! Harvest B1

Eve to Gunn: I can see why the senior partners chose you. (hands Gunn a business card) Have fun. You'll feel like a new man. (Gunn gets sent out for a new brain and makes a deal with the devil to become a hot shot lawyer without having to crack a book. He will pay for his hubris.) Conviction A5

Giles is a new man in town when the show starts. Willow states that he is the new librarian. By the end of the season, he’s managed to guilt trip Buffy into getting killed. Eventually, his earlier life will be exposed and he will betray Buffy and the others more than once. By Season 4, in A New Man, he becomes a thuggish sort of demon that no one can understand after he goes on a drinking and sulking spree with Ethan Raines. He tells Ethan that he is “twice the man” that Maggie Walsh is and takes childish pleasure in frightening her.

You could extend the metaphor to Angel who becomes the new “man”ager of Wolfram and Harte, a bad move on his part and ultimately disastrous for Spike, Fred, Wesley and Gunn and for himself if you assume that none of them walk away from the final battle.

To be a New Man can also mean graduating into the world of successful sexual relations. Spike is the prime example. It is painfully obvious that he is a Mama’s Boy and a virgin. Drusilla makes him a vampire and apparently initiates him in sex as well, both in the alley where she’s giving him a hand job and later in their romp on his mother’s couch.

Cordelia shuts the fumbling and awkward Human Jesse down in Welcome:

Jesse: (coughs) Listen, uh, you know, you wanna dance, you know?
Cordelia: With you?
Jesse: Well, uh, yeah.
Cordelia: Well, uh, no! C'mon, guys.

But, after Jesse becomes a vampire, he becomes more forceful, confident and sexually acceptable:

Jesse lowers his hand, takes hers and leads her back onto the dance floor.
Cordelia: Hey! Hello! Caveman brain! What are you doing?
Jesse: Shut up!
He begins to dance with her.
Cordelia: Well, just one dance.

Xander, who has not become a New Man, says: I'm inadequate. That's fine. I'm less than a man. He’s not talking about his sexuality, but I think ‘inadequate’ takes on a double meaning here with the man reference.

Spike describes the attraction to being a new man:

Becoming a vampire (read New Man) is a profound and powerful experience. I could feel this new strength coursing through me. Getting killed made me feel alive for the very first time. I was through living by society's rules. Decided to make a few of my own. Fool for Love, B5

Closely related to the New Man is the Bad Man. Willow equates vampires to the Bad Man. (This might also be a first hint of her sexual orientation to women).

Willow: Well, we don't have to say vampires. We, we could just say that there's a, a bad man.

Bad Man status can be self-confered: Here Wesley berates himself for being sexually interested in Cordelia, who is a minor, and Spike, who has shown a bit of temper to the crazy Drusilla apologizes to her by identifying himself as bad. Giles, who is stuffiness personified, sings a song that reveals his understanding of his own hidden and very angry character.

WESLEY: (Voice Over) Look at Cordelia. No! Don't look at Cordelia! She's a student! Oh I am a bad man. I'm a bad, bad man! Earshot B3

SPIKE: The bird's dead, Dru. You left it in a cage, and you didn't feed it, and now it's all dead, just like the last one. (Drusilla cowers and whines) Oh, I'm sorry baby. I'm a bad, rude man.

GILES: (sings) No one knows what it's like / To be the bad man Where the wild things Are B4

Insane Spike remorsefully identifies himself as a Bad Man, even when he’s helping to save the life of Cassie.

SPIKE: Yes. There's evil. Down here. Right here. I'm a bad man. William is a baaad man. I hurt the girl. Help B7

(Spike attacks Peter, despite the chip zapping him with each punch)
PETER: Who are you?
SPIKE: I'm a bad man.

When a good character, in this case Xander, says you’re a Bad Man, you can count on it being true:

JACK: Relax. It will wear off in a day or so.
XANDER: In a day or so someone could get killed. You're a bad, bad man. Beer Bad B4

Other times, when a character is labeled a Bad Man, by a character who is bad, it means the opposite. Spike, who has finagled his way into Buffy’s house for a chat with her mother is gleefully taunting Angel and taking advantage of Joyce’s confusion:

ANGEL: Joyce, listen to me.
JOYCE: You get out of this house, or I will stake you myself.
SPIKE: You're a very bad man. Lover’s Walk, B3

Which leaves the Good Man. Buffy articulates it as the Man who makes his own choices and finds the right way for himself. When Riley goes AWOL from the Initiative, he’s lost without someone to give him an order.

BUFFY: It's a choice. Go back in there and make some changes from the inside. Or you can quit the team, fight demons in your own way.
RILEY: You make it sound so simple. I don't even know what my way is.
BUFFY: Well, it's time to find out.
RILEY: I'm a soldier. I got a way, which one of them?
BUFFY: Good man. This year’s girl B4

Buffy, feeling the depth and significance of the deep changes that Spike has undergone, supports him against Giles (who’s proved himself to be a traitor and a Bad Man on several occasions.) She also indicates that becoming a Good Man is a process and one that may require help or “a chance” as she puts it, from others.

BUFFY: He can be a good man, Giles. I feel it. But he's never gonna get there if we don't give him the chance. First Date B7

William says it best. The Good Man knows his weaknesses, but isn’t falsely modest. He appreciates his own inner worth.

WILLIAM: I know I'm a bad poet but I'm a good man. Fool for Love B5

His sincerity shines through and we believe that William is indeed, a Good Man.  
 

Good Point - this also helps explain his comment of "she got it done) (sorry for the need to paraphrase) - unfortunately with the very the extremely dangerous mission Buffy and The Scoobies took on, Angel's comment came across like he had very little, if any concern, about her safety, even her life.

Going back to watch earlier episodes we need to keep the timeline of the series in mind.