BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

to claim or not to claim??

Aug 27 2008 03:06 pm   #1Legen

or rather would he claim or wouldn’t he? i would like to preface with: i’m not bashing claim fics AT ALL. i’ve read some really awesome ones, and the act fell in well with the story. my question is though; do you really think, that if “claiming” also referred to as mating, and any other form of the ‘rest of your life and mine’ stamp from a vampire, were real in the buffyverse [which imo i don’t think it is] that spike would actually do it to buffy? not that i’m saying he wouldn’t want to, cause he’s all for buffy, and often blinded by it, but he’s also incredibly intelligent. he knows that people change and grow, for the better and the worse at times, and that she might not love him for all eternity, as she believes she does in the moment of the act. as well as, how much would it really take for buffy’s friends and family to come around to that? no matter how much she grows, i believe, that their opinion reigns supreme in her mind, and spike is more then aware of that. whether or not her love for him was great enough or not, do you think he would knowingly place her between a rock and a hard place, and actually force her to choose between him and her friends. yeah, spike often pulled her to himself in a very selfish fashion at times in their farce of a relationship, but he never forced her to really choose. spike loved buffy, beyond simple infatuation and, even though it seemed so at time, beyond earnest obsession, but would not his love for buffy hold spike back from locking her to him in a forever longer then marriage arrangement? she was his sunshine [which may be one to many fics speaking through] would he take her real sunshine away from her? just a thought i had in the aftermath of a claim fic, thought up the next day while i was showering. and while i was drying off i had a really good setup and argument, several 12 hour work days latter it seems to have come out a tad muddled. but if you’ve thought about it, and if you just now are, i’d wonder what you thought.

Your heart will break, your tears will fall, but don't be suprised, if there is someone there, to catch you when you fall. Becuase you, yes you, are awesome.
Aug 27 2008 07:03 pm   #2DsZ
I think Spike would claim her if she wanted it. He's always done what she wanted. Don't get me wrong here, he might argue with her but in the end he usually goes with what she says (unless she's being stupid or unreasonable or childish... you get the idea). In this case, going by the standard fanon definition of a claim (sharing of feelings, telepathy, one dies the other follows) where there are no negative effects on them and since I'm pretty sure Spike himself would never object to it, I don't see why Spike wouldn't claim her.

Also, I don't think the chance that her feelings for him might change someday is a valid argument IMO. Nobody knows the future and people as well as their feelings change all the time, but that doesn't keep regular people from getting married. Yes, I know you can get a divorce from someone whereas a mating claim usually (depending on the fic/author) is permanent, but I still think Spike wouldn't object, especially since with the reasoning you used it seems like one of those "for her own good" decisions that Angel would make for Buffy. Spike isn't really into that sort of thing, methinks. Even if he was, it kinda depends which Spike we're talking about. Souled Spike would probably think along the same lines as Angel, but I believe he would talk out his issues with Buffy first. In the end it really all comes down to her anyway. Where Buffy leads, Spike follows.

Anyway, it really depends on what kind of claim and which version of Spike we're talking about. I think there's too many variables to really give a universally acceptable answer. That's my opinion anyway.
Ah, that's the stuff! Slayer musk, it's bitter and aggravating!
Aug 28 2008 12:34 am   #3Guest
For the general question, if Spike was in love with someone (say, Buffy) and she loved him back and they'd been through a lot and believed in each other and had experience of each other and it was real and lasting and all that... I don't think there would be a problem or hesitation in making the claim. Sure, people change and grow, but with the claim, both of you would change and grow together. Buffy might have been able to love Angel forever if they hadn't both changed so much, but it was also that they weren't there during the changes, experiencing th esame things, understanding what each went through, knowing each other. The love might have changed as they both did and their outlooks did, but I don't think Spike and Buffy would be afraid of being together because they'll become people unable to love each other. Especially with some of the side-effects of the claim authors make up, like telepathy or sharing emotions, that make you very close to one another.

For the specific Spike and Buffy question, it depends when you are talking about. By season seven so much had happened and so much hurt had happened I don't know if either of them would have been comfortable with the risk of a claim of eternity, only because they've been hurt so much and they'd still be able to be together in the regular way, not mystically trapped. I love claim fics, too, really!   But lots of times I think fics rush into it to show trust and love, as if the act of claiming was the big deal and not all the consequences and the lives together that will come after.
Aug 28 2008 01:31 pm   #4pfeifferpack
But lots of times I think fics rush into it to show trust and love, as if the act of claiming was the big deal and not all the consequences and the lives together that will come after. Create a new post

Rather like marriage.....marry in haste repent at leisure indeed.  If you think of the COMMITMENT before the ceremony the divorce rate would drop and people would take a bit of time before the I do's turn into I wish I hadn't.

Kathleen
as for claims...a lot depends on how its defined by the individual writer.  It's fanon and each writer has their own take on it really.  It can work nicely in a story on many levels and there are WONDERFUL stories using it as a plot point or a story climax (no pun intended) but as for how to define the properties of it????  I think Spike especially after the soul would try to put Buffy's best interests first and have to be certain she knew what she was signing on for (whatever the Claim attributes were the author cooked up, some make it more symbolic and a sign to other vampires others have it cause eternal life and the altering of Buffy and Spike to some hybrid beings).  I can see it happening under the right circumstances.  Spike always wanted to BELONG and that would be a hearts desire I would think if it existed.
Sep 19 2008 11:24 pm   #5Guest

One of the things about canon Spike's character that makes him interesting is that even as a soulless vampire he is a romantic.  He may have been over a century old, but regardless of the number the things wrong between him and Drusilla, he still thought they were supposed to be "forever" and would have continued to work on it if she had allowed it.  So yes, I think Spike would have claimed Buffy. And I don't think there would have been a great deal of discussion about "are you sure" and so forth.  For Spike, consent would have "naturally" meant that Buffy wanted him forever, and he wouldn't have considered anything beyond that, I think. He would have too enraptured at having finally achieved the great poetic ever after love that he's been searching for since his human days, whether it is actually true at the time or not. I'm not stating this well - I think his perception of the situation would be colored by his romantic beliefs and desires just it always was with Drusilla.