BSV Forum - Support - Wishlist

Categories

Jan 18 2007 06:39 am   #1Jace Nox

Could the stories be separated by categories, Buffy!vamp or bitty buffies (kids) and so on and so forth.  It would be easier to find stories with the story line that interests you.

Thanks

Jan 18 2007 09:40 am   #2Diabola

See, that's the thing: I'd like to reorganize the fics too, but that would mean the authors would have to select a new category for every single fic. I'm looking into options for that, but it has to planned thoroughly, otherwise we'll end up in complete chaos. But it is good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks the categories could use an upgrade. Thanks for mentioning it, I'll continue to work on a plan.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." - Albert Einstein
Jan 18 2007 12:56 pm   #3slaymesoftly

It would take a lot of work.  Most sites divide by pairings, and we only have one of those.   Sort by title, author, season? maybe?  I don't know. Not awake enough right now to be helpful. :)

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Jan 18 2007 01:33 pm   #4Diabola

We have all that. And our categories are basically the seasons - with bitey/non-bitey for each season.

What I'd like to add is something I think of as meta-tags. Like with warning/genre, you can select several of those - but they won't show up anywhere appart from being a search option. Those meta-tags would look like what Jace suggested. We can't really use those things as categories, since several of those tags can be true for a fic, but our categories don't work that way.

If you had to choose one category, and your fic had Buffy having a kid right before she got vamped, which one would you choose? And in which category would people look for it? -- See, not the best option, that's why I wanna add something instead of replacing the whole categories system.

It would still be nice to be able to search the fics for things like vamp!Buffy!plot though. So meta-tags. (Or whatever else we could call them, cos so for this is html talking. :lol: )

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." - Albert Einstein
Jan 18 2007 01:42 pm   #5slaymesoftly

LOL Yeah, too many cats and fics would have to be cross-referenced because so many of them would fit more than one category.   It'll be a tough one - good luck!:)

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Jan 18 2007 11:56 pm   #6DreamsofSpike

i think the idea of putting tags on at the author's discretion, so readers can find stories through the search engine, sounds like a pretty good one...that ought to solve the problem, wouldn't ya think? :) 


but what do i know, i'm barely computer literate at all :P

Jan 19 2007 04:36 am   #7Blood Faerie

I was thinking that too and that would be good, cause other sites have that in their warning or genre list such as "Vamp Buffy" "Claiming" "Babyfic" etc

Unfortunately, we had big vampires in the next room, and I didn't think they'd wait while we had hot monkey sex. ~Cerulean Sins :: (Anita to Jean-Claude)“Is there anything your bloodline does that doesn’t involve getting naked?" ~Danse Macabre :: I’m dating three men, living with two more, and having occasional sex with two others. That’s seven men. I’m like a pornographic Snow White. I think seven is plenty. ~Danse Macabre
Jan 19 2007 05:14 am   #8Jace Nox

Those ideas are good to be able to search for the using Elizabeth's term genre lists, would be so much easier.  but then I'm not a computer wizard.

Jan 24 2007 09:11 am   #9Diabola

In fact, I looked at the categories again last night, and I think I might add non-bitey to the genre or something, and get rid of the Season x/Non-Bitey categories. What do you think? I think to a lot of readers, that differentiation has no effect but forcing them to do two searches if they are looking for Season 2 fics. When looking for a specific fic it might help to let the search know if it was bitey or not, but barely anyone reads ONLY bitey, or ONLY non-bitey. (And with non-bitey being a genre, you could still search for it.)

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." - Albert Einstein
Jan 24 2007 09:25 am   #10Blood Faerie

Are you calling me an oddball for not reading non-bitey? lmao

But, that sounds fine, the author would still be able to label their fic non-bitey.

Unfortunately, we had big vampires in the next room, and I didn't think they'd wait while we had hot monkey sex. ~Cerulean Sins :: (Anita to Jean-Claude)“Is there anything your bloodline does that doesn’t involve getting naked?" ~Danse Macabre :: I’m dating three men, living with two more, and having occasional sex with two others. That’s seven men. I’m like a pornographic Snow White. I think seven is plenty. ~Danse Macabre
Jan 24 2007 01:35 pm   #11slaymesoftly

Yeah, I don't know that we have all that many people who insist on the bitey with their stories, do we? As long as it's clear that Spike is a vampire and we haven't added any all-human fics everyone should be comfortable that they aren't going to stumble across something they don't want to read.

I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Jan 24 2007 02:45 pm   #12Diabola

That's what I think. Even when fics HAD to be bitey to be archived here, there was no rule about how important the bitey had to be. A fic with 50 chapters, and one 200 word long bitey scene would have gone up same as a fic with a whole plot based on a claim. And I have a hard time believeing that anyone would read/not read the first fic based purely on that one measly scene.

Besides, you'll still know if a fic is bitey or not, you'll just be able to search for Season 2 fics and NOT care about the bitey. (If you do care, you search for Season 2 fic with the Genre bitey.)

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." - Albert Einstein
Feb 11 2010 10:09 am   #13nmcil
Any possibility of starting a Categories listing here?  Being able to go directly to a category list would be very useful -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 11 2010 05:14 pm   #14slaymesoftly
If you mean the way we did for a while with the beta list, I suppose we could. "We" however, isn't going to include me or any of the other mods. It would be a mind-boggling job to go through the summaries of every fic on here and put them on a list by category. If someone wants to do that, I say 'knock yourself out'. However, I think just waiting until Dia has time to finish the tags project would be a lot easier.  She's been overwhelmed once again with RL work issues and just hasn't had the time to work on it lately, but it is still a plan and I think is partially completed.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 11 2010 05:35 pm   #15coalitiongirl
 I've read most fics on the site and wouldn't mind helping with that, and I'm pretty sure that there are a few other people who would also volunteer. By categories, what exactly do mean? By season or AU, or with the extras like Vamp!Buffy or baby fics, or something else completely?
 
Feb 11 2010 06:27 pm   #16nmcil
We could do more of a Major Categories listing instead of some of the more specific listings -

If we get some volunteers, which I would be willing to help, and help from the writers know where their stories belong, we could probably get a list together.

these are the categories that I would suggest -

Seasons
Alternative Realms
Time Travel
Comic Season

If we had 2 or 3 volunteers for each category and a simple note from writers where their stories are best placed - I think we could do something.  Volunteers could do up the lists and then submit them for the site.

If we can't do it, that fine - just making a suggestion that I think would improve our site -

Thanks for your quick reply -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 11 2010 07:43 pm   #17coalitiongirl
 So those are already mostly organized that way on the site- if you just search by category you can find most- not much real work at all to do there, except for maybe with drabbles or time travel. If we wanted to add more, I peeked at Elysian Fields's, and they also have these categories:

Crossover (AtS)
Crossover (everything else)
Historical
All Human/Fantasy
Baby Fic
Claim
Song Fic

Some of those seem silly to have here, like all human, obviously, and historical (which is really all human or time travel), and even the mostly elusive song fic, but what if we added those and maybe vamp!Buffy or bloodplay as another? If we just leave the standard categories, then it wouldn't do much more good than just searching through categories. 

Either way, though, I'd love to help. :)

We could probably divide the author list alphabetically between a few people and each person could make an individual list that we could combine afterwards into the one big list for the site.
 
Feb 11 2010 09:05 pm   #18nmcil
I must be totally missing something with how the stories are listed here - I don't see "categories"  on the site lists of subjects/topics -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 11 2010 09:09 pm   #19nmcil
color me totally clueless  - I see that the search has the categories listing - what a blockhead I am - I was simply relying on the sidebar listing and looking for "categories" -



” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 12 2010 03:28 pm   #20slaymesoftly
Um, yeah. Before an author posts a story she/he must identify it by category (pre-BtVS, Post-BtVS, Post AtS, Crossover, Drabble, Season, etc., etc.) so much of that is already done for you. They are also identified by genre (romance, action, etc).  Except for very specific things like baby!fic, it should be pretty easy for readers to figure out what they're going to find in each category.  That should take much of the work out of it for those who still want to pursue a list. You will only have to identify the specific categories that we don't already have and list those fics.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 16 2010 07:32 pm   #21BandS
Ah, the Categories is great and all...BUT...I'd have to say that as a reader you find some fics where the author doesn't even list many categories their story can fall into.  Most don't want to give away everything to their story.

It would be nice if they did because it would help us 'the readers' find certain fics.  However, as a fan fic writer I would list warnings, but not so much all the categories my story would fall in.

Example that I remember is maybe Dawnofme's story In Harms Way.  She doesn't say its a certain type of fic like the ending can also fall under another category.  In fact all she states is Category Season 4 and adult language for warnings.

Only Time will Tell by dampersandspoons is another one.  Category Post Series, Time Travel, Historical with warnings of Adult Language and Sexual Situations.  However, and not to give away anything but towards the end it suggests another category for this story.  Yet dampers does not include this.  If you think about it that's really smart, but at the same time something a reader would have to remember when categorizing certain stories for themselves.

I have run across many stories not saying it is a baby fic when in fact it does feature it...or a bitey fic that has claiming in it.

While I can certainly agree stories being categorized would be great (or tags) most don't want them for the simple fact of mystery.  That is, of course, they don't list all the categories the story entails.  Yes, this is highly frustrating, but understandable at the same time.  And it would be nice if it was mandatory that all categories for your story are listed making it easier for a reader to search a fic, but then I think it would also be a deterent to the writer who wants to keep their readers on their toes?  Well, that's what I think at least...

Any one agree or understand my gibberish?  Don't mind me bored as heck at work...A very very dead day...why can't the snow stick so I can go home...lol....

Feb 16 2010 07:42 pm   #22coalitiongirl
That's a good point, BandS. Maybe we can make a categories list with spoiler warnings, or separate from the site? The truth is, if it's a baby fic, for example, someone who's specifically looking for baby fics probably won't care if knowing that there's a baby in the making spoils the story, and the same for someone who wants to read a vamp!Buffy fic. My suggestion is that we make a separate categories list, but not have those categories show up on the fic summary (where it now says the Season, etc) at all. That way, they can be found if they're being searched for specifically, but they won't be spoiled by a casual browser.
 
Feb 16 2010 09:41 pm   #23nmcil
The categories listing is primarily to aid the readers that are looking for specific types of stories - It is a HUGE help for readers, if we keep the categories listing as is with a few sub headings like "baby fic" or headings that are what most readers would be looking for, it would give us more focused listing without creating a lot of added effort.  As a reader looking for a specific type of story I don't mind looking through a list and checking the writers notes.  One thing that I personally would always like is a warning about threesome sex or extreme sexual content.  
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 17 2010 01:03 am   #24slaymesoftly
I just took another look at the submission form authors fill out, and these are the things I know are already there:
Ratings -  everything from G to NC17 - should give a potential reader a pretty good idea what the level of sex or violence is going to be
Category - all the seasons, drabbles, crossovers, AtS season 5, AU (not all human, just alternate universes), post show(s),  pre-show and various seasons.
Genre- drama, humor, pwp, challenge response,  porn with some plot, bitey, non-bitey, time travel, hurt-comfort, tragedy, parody, romance, angst, and something else I'm too lazy to go back and look for.
Warnings - just about everything: rape, attempted rape, extreme sexual situations, character death, extreme violence, spike/other, B/A/S (there's your threesome),m/m, dom/sub, Buffy other - may have missed one or two.
And, if it's a challenge response, the number of the challenge; so the reader can look that up and get a pretty clear idea of what the story is about.
I don't see much else that needs to be there.  There's such a thing as knowing too much about a story. If you trust the author to tell a good story, and if you heed the warnings so as to avoid anything that really squicks you, then I think a reader should just take a chance and start reading.
There's no category for baby!fic because at least one of your mods thinks that should come under "Warnings" ROFL  Kidding. Sort of. It's just a bit too specific for something that isn't all that common. It would be like saying "Spike's going to ride a motorcycle" or "Buffy stakes a red-haired vampire".  As a rule, categories are more to give a potential reader a general idea of what to expect, and the warnings are to help steer one away from things that she really doesn't like.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 17 2010 11:24 am   #25nmcil
Thanks for taking the time to reply slaymesoftly - I will be sure to start using the search mode from now on - what is there now works just fine - I just did not realize that this was where the categories were listed.
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 17 2010 05:05 pm   #26BandS
Yes it is a great feature for us to look for a story, but I was pointing out that certain sites 'categories' aren't always complete.

I gave examples of dawnofme's and dampersandspoons stories--how they list SOME categories their story falls under.  We can't make them list ever single category.  That is up to their discretion what they want listed or not.

Slaymesoftly--a question for you.  I don't post here but does this site have an option that you can do multiple listings for what your story entails?  I know other sites like EF and TSR you can list what seasons you use, whether it is alternate reality, human, baby, claiming, or vamp Buffy--to name a few. 

Just checked most stories here have only one category listing from what I can see.  Is this correct?  At most you have Various Seasons if you are using both, but what if it's a Time Travel related story?  Does that mean it then goes under warningsor genre?  Or would the writer who is using Time Travel use that title rather than Various Seasons...

I think this is what is making it hard to differentiate here because some stories do have other categories that can be used.  However, I still agree that gives an air of mystery to each story--only categorizing using one MAIN category. 

Although, ultimately, for readers who read the story and love it, but don't save it...later have a hard time finding the story because they are selectively remembering parts of the story that aren't reflecting what they are searching for.  I have done the search for a fic here before and found it frustrating at times because it isn't specific enough.  YET...at the same time it is good because I have found you are too specific the story still doesn't come up on any site.  Very strange...lol

I had a great idea but trashed it because way too complicated lol...Probably why I depend so much on Buffy-recs and Seeking Spike when trying to find a fic... ;)


Feb 17 2010 08:11 pm   #27nmcil
Of course now I want to know what your idea was - 

Since I use the categories at the other sites, and now will do same here, I like having the season & theme categories and all the writers notes.  I'm not so sure that "readers only" are especially effected by "the mystery" aspect when selecting works to read.   Sometimes I just want to read a story from a particular season or a theme - a good general description in the writer's notes works fine - with  specificity in pairings and sexual content i.e., a threesome of Buffy, Angel, Spike and friendships vs romantic pairings.  Most writers are good at letting the readers know what is coming. 

There is works and types of stories to satisfy all readers - a good listing of major categories with good selection of themes (ones that are most popular with readers) is very useful tool and only enhances the site. 

Would it help any is we used "search/categories"  on the site subjects?
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Feb 18 2010 03:13 am   #28slaymesoftly
BandS, Dia had begun working on tags for stories that would allow authors (and maybe readers?) to categorize a story in many areas.  Unfortunately, she has been overwhelmed with RL work issues for some time, and the tags are not ready to go live yet. There's a forum entry on them somewhere where she is asking for input as to what tags are needed. If you can find that entry, you can add your ideas for more tags to what's already there.

Personally, a seasonal category that tells me when the story is set - or an AU designation is enough for me. If the author has given a decent summary, those things, plus the warnings, are enough for me to know if I'm likely to be interested in it or not.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 18 2010 11:21 pm   #29BandS
I have desperately been looking for this story that I can't find.

Example:

I am pretty sure that there is a fic that Buffy and Spike say horrible things to each other (no surprise there lol) except it was after she found out she was having Spike's baby...He goes back to his crypt to nurse his feelings about her vehemently declaring she was aborting it...I believe Spike says something in Spike-like defensive behavior...and Giles comes after him threatening him at his crypt.

Any ideas? I know that ultimately they keep the baby and everything is all good...but I know it was drama intense filled...

Everytime I do a search or try to I come up with nothing sounding like this.  Annnnd....how much you want to bet it's on my saved Word files.  I so need to categorize what I save!  It was an amazing story.

See, I agree with you Slaymesoftly about how to post it and the summary.  I was wondering more along the lines of the search feature and how that works.  I have even tried lines from a story and it shoots back other stories as well...or I get nothing at all.  That's why I rely so much on seeing if someone else might remember the story I'm looking for.  That excel sheet I might have to do lol...But so many are now putting stories into categories.

Way too complicated nmcil...is all I'm saying.  It would mean Dia would need to change some major settings on 'searching'.  And personally I think we are all managing pretty darn well considering this fandom is still going after all these years with losses here and there.

Feb 19 2010 12:54 am   #30slaymesoftly
As far as searching for specific fics is concerned (as opposed to a general category of fics), I'd say Seeking Spike on Live Journal is the best place. Very rarely does someone not know how to find the fic being requested.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 19 2010 03:55 am   #31nmcil
Sorry I was not clear - all I mean is that both words could be placed in the sidebar - search and categories - the search link already takes you to where you need to be - I was just thinking that perhaps some of the readers, and new members might be looking for the "categories" word.  What is being used now works just fine  - Since most other sites use the word "categories" instead of "search" that is what I was expecting to see. 

Fact is that if you don't know the author or a title of the work you want, you have to spend time looking through a lot of works.  I have spent some time today looking for a baby fic that I read a long time ago - and I don't like using the "can some help me" as my first go to method of finding a story.  It should be easy to find since thre known characters are Buffy, Baby, Richard  but nothing came up on several sites -

” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.

 Closed