BSV Forum - General - Episode Discussions

Superstar

Mar 19 2010 11:34 pm   #1Spikez_tart
This episode is just plain fun all around and one of my personal favorites.  Love the James Bond type music and camera shots, love the Big Band music in the Bronze, love how Buffy gives Riley the air (for a while anyway), love Buffy's outre hairdo and her animal skin jacket, not to mention Giles' personal copy of the swimsuit calendar.  Best of all, we see Spike coming on to "Betty" for the first time since Something Blue.  Spikey goodness.

Deep in this swamp of silliness, Jonathan reveals to Riley how to kill Adam and patches up Buffy's love affair with the Big Dumb Hunk  (tough luck there) and Tara and Willow take a big step forward in their relationship.  Buffy, completely goofy under the spell, makes Jonathan a huge cup of coffee with about a pound of sugar in it.  Coffee and the offer of a cup of something being signs of friendliness or love. 

Sadly, by the end Jonathan's spell world crashes in and he's banished to the outside.  Too bad Buffy didn't take him into the gang.  It might have saved his life and kept him from going bad.  Instead he ends up the victim of Warren and Andrew who push him into evil activities.

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Mar 20 2010 04:23 am   #2nmcil
Thanks for starting the new episode discussion - I really enjoyed this one - and I loved Danny Strong - the ending was both very sad, but also very necessary - and what a great way to foreshadow the eventual ending of Buffy-Riley.  With a planned "Riley one-shot" coming up - I am very interested to see what the new take on Riley is going to be - The artist, I guess at the direction of Joss Whedon, simply left out Riley's scared face in the comic book season. 

I will watch "Superstar" again to refresh
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Mar 21 2010 01:38 am   #3coalitiongirl
 This was the episode that really made me love Jonathan (but I guess it did that for all the characters, too... ). The enormous contrast between the Jonathan at the beginning and the end alone was masterfully done. The episode pokes fun at self-insertion [fanfics] and the show itself, in a sense. It's definitely in my top ten episodes, and it really is a shame what happened to Jonathan after this.

One point- I loved the Spuffy portrayal in this episode, the way she's kind of helpless and not so snarky and his fascination with that. (Kantayra captures that perfectly in "Superstar Revamped," I remember.) Another clue to the incoming Spuffy...
 
Mar 21 2010 03:49 am   #4nmcil
I will finally get a chance to watch the episode tonight -
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Mar 23 2010 09:46 am   #5Lou
I agree -- this was one of the most fun episodes of the show, and very cleverly done.  Danny Strong was excellent.  And the simmering Spuffy moment was delicious.  No resistance there at all!
Mar 23 2010 11:40 pm   #6The Enemy of Reality
Don't forget the awesome Jonathan credits at the beginning. That was fun. The Spuffy bit in there is just delicious, that goes without saying... especially the lack of snappy puns Buffy comes up with, like: "you big bleached...stupid guy." 
Mar 24 2010 12:08 am   #7Niori
Man, does anyone else wish they had kept at least one of those awesome Jonathan credit flashesin  there for the rest of the series?

This is totally one of my fav episodes- it's hilarious. Though, in hindsight, it kinda makes me sad- if the Scoobies had made an effort to try and inculde Johnathan after this (could that whole spell be anymore of a cry for help?), then there goes the need join the trio in season 6 is gone. I mean, if you knew someone who went to such exteremes to be liked/fit in/get friends, wouldn't you be like 'hey, this guy could use some help. Let's invite him out to the Bronze with us sometime.' Hell, I would have done that after Earshot, but that's just me.
~ Niori ~
Mar 24 2010 01:38 am   #8slaymesoftly
Sounds like a plot bunny to me, Niori. I'm going to have to rewatch that episode now and see what the possibilities are.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Mar 24 2010 01:49 am   #9Niori
Oh, I do plan to incorperate the let's-help-Johnathan thing somewhere in a story I'm writing.
Plus, if you really think about it, Johnathan would make a good addition to the team, what with his magic abilities. Not to mention it would give Xander a male friend. lol
~ Niori ~
Mar 24 2010 02:01 am   #10nmcil
I'm sorry that Jonathan was not used more in the series - not until the choice was made to make humans and the Inner Scooby Demons the Big Bad for Season 6.  You have to consider though that Superstar was also a metaphor and foreshadow of what was coming with the Buffy-Riley relationship. 
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Mar 24 2010 02:49 am   #11Spikez_tart
Superstar was also a metaphor and foreshadow of what was coming with the Buffy-Riley relationship - AND the Spike/Buffy relationship, too. 

Those credits are a scream.  It must have cost them a bundle to re-do them. Which is why we love Buffy - cause they are willing to blow money on stuff like that.  Not to mention the hokey - 1970's style camera shots of Buffy's face or when she flicks her fingers at Spike.  Priceless.

Take Jonathan to the Bronze - yes a decent person would have done that, but then you wouldn't have had the trio in S6 with the Evil Mission statement, the board of goals (chicks - chicks - chicks) and Spike threatening to break the Bubba Fett statue. 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Mar 24 2010 04:22 am   #12coalitiongirl
I think "Fixing the Factors" by ImmortallySpuffy played with the idea of bringing Jonathan into the gang. I would've loved to see that, but I'd have hated the idea of him becoming a lesser Xander figure and someone annoying instead of the Jonathan we knew, which might have destroyed the character... some are just made to be recurring, IMHO. 
 
Mar 24 2010 08:18 am   #13Anca 
"Sweet Slayer" - just love Jane Espenson for that. It came from nowhere, not at all related to the Superstar spell.
Mar 24 2010 04:35 pm   #14sosa lola
but I'd have hated the idea of him becoming a lesser Xander figure and someone annoying instead of the Jonathan we knew,

If Jonathan joined the Scoobies, he would have taken Xander's place as the comic relief -like Andrew did in S7- which wouldn't be bad IMO, because Xander would've been in a more serious role. And I've always enjoyed Xander's character when he's serious, angry, sweet, brave, asshole more than when he's funny and his flaws and issues are swept under a rug because he's the comic relief.
Mar 25 2010 02:39 am   #15Spikez_tart
"Sweet Slayer" - just love Jane Espenson for that. It came from nowhere, not at all related to the Superstar spell.

Actually, (total wanking here) but Spike doesn't have sex with Buffy until his chip doesn't work anymore.  In Superstar, she's a little weaker than her normal self, so that makes her more approachable and attainable.  I think I prefer it to be completely out of left field.

Spike: "Yeah, back off 'Betty.'"
Buffy: "It's Buffy, you big bleached..."  [music ends] "stupid guy."

Hee hee.  Buffy's not only weaker, she's pun-impaired.

he would have taken Xander's place as the comic relief - which would have definitely been a relief.  They'd pretty much rung all the comic out of Xander by The Replacement.  Some new talent would have been a good change of pace.

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Mar 25 2010 05:02 am   #16TammyDevil666
Jonathan being for comic relief, sadly, he wasn't very funny until after he joined up with Andrew and Warren.  Before that he was just some loner, suicidal guy who kept getting picked on, hence the spell.  I do wonder how things could have gone if Buffy and company gave him a chance to join their group after this episode.  Me not being a fan of the trio, I probably would have preferred it.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Mar 26 2010 02:29 am   #17Spikez_tart
TammyD - you don't love the creepiness that is Warren with the one eye that looks at the wall while he's telling you a big fat lie?
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Mar 26 2010 05:22 am   #18TammyDevil666
LOL, a world of no.
When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you, and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Mar 26 2010 01:11 pm   #19sosa lola
which would have definitely been a relief.  They'd pretty much rung all the comic out of Xander by The Replacement.  Some new talent would have been a good change of pace.

I agree. I found Andrew taking Xander's place in S7 a bit of fresh air. Mind you, I think Xander lost his place to Anya since S5, but they still considered him comic relief,  which damaged his character (and Anya's) more than it helped them.
Mar 27 2010 04:14 am   #20nmcil
Was great seeing this episode again - Danny Strong was so good in this episode - and loved how he plays off Spike in the cemetery scenes - he takes his small stature and makes it work so well with the contrast of the big little man and his sad and touching last scene where he is like the wonderful but shriveled  small flower.  His super important words of advice to Buffy - about how she must speak with Riley and their last scene together where it all goes down to the sex and never gets to the really important "talk." 

What are some of the important foreshadowing in this "fantasy" episode?

Couple of big ones is the sexual attraction  between Spike and Buffy followed by her extremely harsh language back to him.
Anya and Xander with their disconnect between his insecurity and his relationship with Anya - they too show a big dependence on sexual attraction as part of their relationship.
With Tara - we have the excellent introduction of what is coming in 2 episodes with the return of OZ 
Riley-Buffy and the Initiative are, IMO, are also foreshadowed with the idea of "bringing in the big guns" - which ends up not being the Initiative with all their Super Techno Toy, but Buffy and her inner circle and magics.
Buffy looked very pretty and feminine in this episode and this episode again brings in the conflict  of her Slayer strength and his "Joe Normal" status. 

These are just some of the more obvious - what can we add to this list?
” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Mar 28 2010 03:33 am   #21Spikez_tart
His super important words of advice to Buffy - don't forget that he warns her twice about southpaws.  Now who could that possibly be?

Nmcil - What is the Tara - return of Oz foreshadowing?  From your list I can see that this show has a little more meat on its bones that you'd expect.



If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Mar 31 2010 07:18 pm   #22nmcil
"Nmcil - What is the Tara - return of Oz foreshadowing?  From your list I can see that this show has a little more meat on its bones that you'd expect."

To me the visuals used with Tara when she is being attacked take us back to the school environment when Oz chases and attacks Tara - plus, it is the same "inner demons/monsters" that Jonathan creates that are at work with the Oz-Tara-Willow triangle.  It's a wonderful conversion, from my perspective, of the fantasy world control that Jonathan takes and the  real world problems and the intellectual and spiritual control that Oz takes with his retreat and studies in Tibet.  Jonathan and Oz both lose this battle.  At least this is how the episode is intrepreted from how I approach the series -


” Recent evolutionary models have demonstrated what politicians have long known: the best way to get people to collaborate and to think like a group is to identify an enemy and charge that “they” threaten “us.”

Michael Tomasello is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Apr 01 2010 03:46 am   #23Spikez_tart
Okay - Tara also gets attacked in Hush by the mime monsters.
If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?