BSV Forum - General - The Bloodshedpub

Questions about Fanfiction Participation

Nov 05 2012 04:52 am   #1TwilightChild
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC



Nov 05 2012 04:45 pm   #2slaymesoftly
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC





Hi TC - welcome back!

#1 - um, 10+ years, I think. I was a BtVS fan from  the getgo, but didn't find fandom until sometime around 2000 -2001 I think. (I may be wrong about that - it was while the show was still on, but towards the end I think. I remember I was looking for info on Spike (and the actor who played him) and then I was looking for spoilers and recaps of episodes I was missing.  For argument's sake, lets say since Season V of the show's run.   That's when I'd consider I actually entered "fandom" and discovered it was a thing, as opposed to being a fan of the show.

#2 - BtVS is my first and so far only fandom (although I've dabbled in writing xovers with Torchwood). So my answers may not be too helpful with your survey.

#3 - How many stories? OMG - it's probably pushing 100 by now, if it hasn't gone over that.  They're all in the same fandom world (BtVS, AtS), so that answer is the same as the first one. I don't think I can give a legitimate average as they range from true drabbles (100 wds) to epic-length fics of well over 100,000 words. I'd say most of the non-drabbles probably fall in the 5,000 to 40,000 word range. But that's just a guess on my part. I didnt do the math.

ETA Okay, I tried to do the math. It was impossible to come up with an average word count, but I think my guess was probably pretty good. However, the count of fics written (which includes some non-spuffy ones that never showed up here) is somewhere around 200!  I think I need to get a life.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Nov 06 2012 03:49 am   #3Spikez_tart

Hi Twi - good to hear from you. 

1 - Since 2005.  I found out about fanfiction completely by accident and what a great surprise. 
2 - BTVS only - no other TV show has ever been as interesting to me.  Also I never felt the need to do any other shows, not that I watch much TV.  Maybe Ringer, but I'm writing my own stuff now and don't really want to get dragged into a new obsession.
3 - I think I've published about 10.  I've got two started that I might finish one day.  No real average.  There are a few that are around 20K, the others are 50 to 75K.  The longer ones are my preferred range.
 

If we want her to be exactly she'll never be exactly I know the only really real Buffy is really Buffy and she's gone' who?
Nov 06 2012 01:02 pm   #4ginar369
1. I'm a newbie. I only found fanfiction in 2011. I wasn't all that interested in BtVS when it was airing. I had little kids and only one TV! So I was stuck watching cartoon characters. I got hooked on the show in reruns and fell in love with Spike. I was doing an internet search to see what other projects James had been in when I found fanfiction.

2. It's the only fanfic I read or write. I guess because of the way it ended and how Spike's story continued on Ats. I loved his arc but wanted a different outcome. Other Tv shows didn't leave me with that feeling of the story not being finished like this one did.

3. Right now most of my stories are short maybe 7,000 words and I have only posted 4 or 5. But I am new at writing. I am working on a few that will be much longer.
Nov 07 2012 03:52 am   #5Seapea 
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC






I've been reading Spuffy fanfiction since Season 5 aired.  It's the only fandom I participate in.  Hope that's useful!
Nov 08 2012 08:26 am   #6asphodel

1.  10+ years.

2.  I seem to keep accumulating them *chuckle*. At the moment, I'm active in 4 (where "active" = "actively contributing to".

3a. 10-ish*.

3b. 5 or so.*

3c. I've written drabbles for requests, but I personally tend towards the 75k - 100k+ range.

* I also do translations for 2 of the 4 aforementioned fandoms, which would push my story count up significantly. Probably not within the context you're looking for, however.

I think it's quite interesting why people join the fandoms they do, why they leave, and why they contribute in the way they do. My answer would probably be the same as ginar's...or, alternatively, that I never managed to get past the first stage of Kübler-Ross, heheh.
Nov 08 2012 08:48 am   #7asphodel
@slaymesoftly:

At the risk of sounding like a crazed stalker or a hopeless geek* (please pick the latter if you must have one of the two XD), I think you've done around 130 Spuffy stories averaging 17,000 words. And I supplicate myself in awe.

* Actually, I was thinking the Spuffy fanfic space was rather fractured, and it's difficult to keep track of all of any particular author's works. I've been working on some way to help with the problem...perhaps an easily searchable aggregate list that will point to the various archives. Yes, okay, that probably doesn't help with the "hopeless geek" bit, but...
Nov 08 2012 09:37 pm   #8slaymesoftly
@slaymesoftly:

At the risk of sounding like a crazed stalker or a hopeless geek* (please pick the latter if you must have one of the two XD), I think you've done around 130 Spuffy stories averaging 17,000 words. And I supplicate myself in awe.

* Actually, I was thinking the Spuffy fanfic space was rather fractured, and it's difficult to keep track of all of any particular author's works. I've been working on some way to help with the problem...perhaps an easily searchable aggregate list that will point to the various archives. Yes, okay, that probably doesn't help with the "hopeless geek" bit, but...


LOL @ asphodel. I'm not sure if I'm in awe of your knowing how many Spuffy stories I've written and the avg. word count, or if I want to scold you for wasting time on that when you have a story to finish!

I would think that TSR would be the most comprehensive collection of Spuffy fics, but I suppose there are those who don't post there. And then, there are all the Spuffy fics on All About Spike that probably never made onto any other archive because they were written so long ago that TSR, BSV, EF, etc didn't exist yet. Yeah, good luck with that! It's a great idea though. (Although, pointing out  that just keeping it updated after it's completed would take valuable time away from completing any wip you may have.... *slides eyes to the side and checks Apocrypha*)
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Nov 09 2012 04:01 am   #9Always_jbj
@slaymesoftly:
* Actually, I was thinking the Spuffy fanfic space was rather fractured, and it's difficult to keep track of all of any particular author's works. I've been working on some way to help with the problem...perhaps an easily searchable aggregate list that will point to the various archives. Yes, okay, that probably doesn't help with the "hopeless geek" bit, but...


A lot of authors (Slaymesoftly included) have their own websites, so that would be the easiest way to keep track of all their fic (including those gen-fics etc that don't qualify for the Spuffy archives).
Aim from the heart
Some will love and some will curse you, baby
You can go to war
But only if you have to 


Fanfic ~*~ Artwork ~*~ Live Journal
Nov 10 2012 08:02 am   #10asphodel
@slaymesoftly
LOL, point well taken! Apocrypha is definitely higher up my priority list. (If I get some sort of page set up properly, though, it should be able to take care of itself. Because I'm way too lazy to go around adding story updates by hand. It's on the back burner with my thinking cap for now. )

@Always_jbj
Very true. I personally find it difficult to keep track of more than a couple of authors, though. Laziness is probably a recurring theme here. I want my computer to do all the work!

@TwilightChild
My apologies for the off-topic-ness. If there is anything else I can answer for you, do let me know.
Nov 13 2012 07:02 pm   #11UncagedMuse 
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC




1. I have been in the fandom since the beginning of Season 6 BTVS aired and I found it accidently while looking up information on James Marsters.
2. I have stuck with the same fandom although I do read crossovers with other fandoms such as HP, Supernatural, Doctor Who, Torchwood and now The Walking Dead.
3. I've written 28 fanfics (probably half of them Spuffy, some genfics, and some other pairings in the Btvs/Ats worlds) and have one WIP left to finish. Two of them are short crossovers. Probably half of my fanfics have been drabbles, so I'm going to guess my average word count to be around 6000 to 7000.



Nov 13 2012 11:43 pm   #12slaymesoftly
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC




1. I have been in the fandom since the beginning of Season 6 BTVS aired and I found it accidently while looking up information on James Marsters.
2. I have stuck with the same fandom although I do read crossovers with other fandoms such as HP, Supernatural, Doctor Who, Torchwood and now The Walking Dead.
3. I've written 28 fanfics (probably half of them Spuffy, some genfics, and some other pairings in the Btvs/Ats worlds) and have one WIP left to finish. Two of them are short crossovers. Probably half of my fanfics have been drabbles, so I'm going to guess my average word count to be around 6000 to 7000.





It's interesting how many of us are here because we wanted to know more about a certain blond vampire and the man who brought him to life (so to speak).
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Nov 17 2012 06:53 am   #13UncagedMuse 
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC




1. I have been in the fandom since the beginning of Season 6 BTVS aired and I found it accidently while looking up information on James Marsters.
2. I have stuck with the same fandom although I do read crossovers with other fandoms such as HP, Supernatural, Doctor Who, Torchwood and now The Walking Dead.
3. I've written 28 fanfics (probably half of them Spuffy, some genfics, and some other pairings in the Btvs/Ats worlds) and have one WIP left to finish. Two of them are short crossovers. Probably half of my fanfics have been drabbles, so I'm going to guess my average word count to be around 6000 to 7000.





It's interesting how many of us are here because we wanted to know more about a certain blond vampire and the man who brought him to life (so to speak).


Spike is the be all end all for me. lol
Nov 20 2012 09:33 am   #14Lou
Still exclusively Spuffy after 10+  years.
Nov 22 2012 05:52 pm   #15Joyce
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC





1.    It was the horrible ending of The Gift that got me looking for others with whom to commisserate and I discovered the fandom.

2.    The other fanfic that I follow whenever I find it is Forever Knight.   I read both Nick/Nat and Nick/Janette. 

3.    I wrote 6 very short fanfic ages ago.   There are too many really good writers which feed my need to read Spuffy. 
Nov 24 2012 07:28 pm   #16All4Spike
I'd never even heard of fanfiction until 2005, when I came across it by accident when Googling for something else. I have no idea what. I have been a Spuffy addict since that moment. I'll read other pairings, such as Giles/Anya, Giles/Joyce, Angel/Cordelia, but they all have to have Spuffy as an accepted couple in the background to keep my interest.

I was galvanised into action after yet another re-watching of 'Dead Things' and decided that I hated the way that Spike just accepted Buffy's abuse and she made no attempt to check on him or even apologise. 'Coincidences' was born as a single chapter to put right what once went wrong - and then I couldn't stop..............

I had to pause for a while when 'Critical care' came to me - the entire story - as a dream one night, and then again for a protracted case of writers' block, but I'm still going, all Spuffy all the way, with a new story in a new 'verse that won't be posted until it's finished! (probably)

I've read a few crossovers with other fandoms, but I am not so passionate about any programme/film other than BtVS/Angel, so I don't read anything other than stories based in the BtVS 'verse. Can't even stand AH Spuffy, because (IMHO) if Buffy isn't a slayer and Spike isn't a vampire, then they're not Buffy & Spike!
Love's a funny thing...
Nov 24 2012 07:48 pm   #17lunna798 
Hi guys.

 
  It's been a really long long time since I've talked to anyone here.  I hope everyone's doing great and that the fandom is still going strong.

  I was hoping that I could ask each of you for some help with a project.  I'll be writing an entry on Fanfiction for my new blog: dontlaughimreallyawriter@wordpress.com

  In order to complete this project, I need to ask a few questions from some die-hard fanfiction junkies.    Both readers and writers.


1.  How long have you been following your fandom(s)?

2.  Do you often only stick to one or two fandoms or do you hop around? 

3.  Just for the writers.  How many fanfiction stories have you written?  What's the top number of stories you've written for a single fandom?  And how about average word count per story?


Ok, I know, the last one was three questions in one.  But I didn't want to make the readers feel left out. 

I would definitely appreciate any help that people would be willing to give in this regard.  I definitely look forward to responses, and again, I hope everyone is doing well!



Yours as faithfully as this fickle writer can be,


TC




Dont know if you still need this info but here goes. 
1.  I have been reading fanfic for about 6 years.  Spuffy for about 4 of those.
2.  Other than Spuffy I only follow one other ficdom (liason -- GH)  and I found Spuffy through one of the liason writers I became friends with -- she had also written Spuffy.  On FF.net I will click around on other ficdoms but just out of curiosity.
3.  I have never written for Spuffy but I have written for liason -- I am figuring about 12 fics.  7 of which are one shots and the rest are WIPS.  I dont keep word counts sorry.  I find it distracts me and then all I think is I have to get to a certain word count as opposed to letting the story tell itself in the number of words it wants to.


Jan 19 2013 09:13 am   #18Rebcake
1.  I've been interested in in Buffy for seven years as a viewer/reader. I've been writing and modding for five years.

2.  I stick with the Jossverse, though I do crossovers with all kinds of things: TV, comic books, movies. From Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer to Pulp Fiction, but all tied back to something Joss was involved in. I prefer to read Buffyverse or Buffyverse crossovers.

3.  I've got 72 stories up on AO3, including drabbles. 70 of those are BtVS/AtS. This year, the average word count for each story was 3,000, but the range is from 100 to 8,000.

Feb 09 2013 07:50 pm   #19nmcil12
Hope that some our wonderful FanFiction writers and our members will reply for this project.  I am doing a project for February but will also be ongoing.  Would like February because of Valentine's Day but I think that this a project that is good for the Spuffy and Buffyverse fandom.

What is the current state of the Buffy and Spike relationship?  How have your interpretations changed now in this year of 2013? How do you see Buffy and Spike and their transformation journey and the individual characters now?  Have the comic book changed Spuffy for you? 

I want to feature the essays over at Buffytube but I think this would also be a great discussion for this site.

Feb 10 2013 02:14 am   #20slaymesoftly
Hope that some our wonderful FanFiction writers and our members will reply for this project.  I am doing a project for February but will also be ongoing.  Would like February because of Valentine's Day but I think that this a project that is good for the Spuffy and Buffyverse fandom.

What is the current state of the Buffy and Spike relationship?  How have your interpretations changed now in this year of 2013? How do you see Buffy and Spike and their transformation journey and the individual characters now?  Have the comic book changed Spuffy for you? 

I want to feature the essays over at Buffytube but I think this would also be a great discussion for this site.



This a difficult question to answer. I have so many fics set in the future - in many different futures, some comics-related, most not - that  I don't spend a lot of time on meta thoughts about them or their relationship - I just write whatever seems appropriate for the story I'm writing. But I don't think my basic feeling about their relationship or who they are has changed much from the beginning.  I think they've changed and grown through the years, but not in any way that surprises me or that doesn't seem organic given who they are and the experiences they've had.  Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I just don't spend a lot of time dwelling on thoughts like that.
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 10 2013 05:56 am   #21nmcil12
Thanks for your reply - and maybe how you feel and process the Spuffy relationship for your writing is  the same for other  writers and fans.  I am just trying to get a feel for how the writers and fans relate to Buffy and the Spuffy relationship today.
 
There was a discussion on Buffy and her emotional state from her relationship with Angel/Angelus and if her holding on to her love for him had helped make her vulnerable to the influcences of the Twilight Forces.  Did Buffy hold on to her emotional needs and desires for Angel without trying to heal from the emotional trauma?  Having gone through the Riley relationship and her relationship with Spike in the series and now their relationship in the comic books - have people changed  their interpretations on how they see Buffy after the series and all this time of the comic books. 
 
One thing that has changed for me is that I have pretty much given up on Spuffy as an potential ending in the franchise/comic books.  I also am seeing Buffy so much more as a woman who has been made vulnerable and victimized by so many people whom she loved and trusted.  Is Buffy going through a phase of hitting bottom and having to find out once again, how to be the heroic Slayer and how to finally heal herself from her love and history with Angel?
 
That whole Twilight Time has been pretty confusing for me - I don't know what to make of how Joss Whedon and Dark Horse have turned her into such a victimized woman in these comic books.
Feb 11 2013 01:17 pm   #22ginar369
Thanks for your reply - and maybe how you feel and process the Spuffy relationship for your writing is  the same for other  writers and fans.  I am just trying to get a feel for how the writers and fans relate to Buffy and the Spuffy relationship today.
 
There was a discussion on Buffy and her emotional state from her relationship with Angel/Angelus and if her holding on to her love for him had helped make her vulnerable to the influcences of the Twilight Forces.  Did Buffy hold on to her emotional needs and desires for Angel without trying to heal from the emotional trauma?  Having gone through the Riley relationship and her relationship with Spike in the series and now their relationship in the comic books - have people changed  their interpretations on how they see Buffy after the series and all this time of the comic books. 
 
One thing that has changed for me is that I have pretty much given up on Spuffy as an potential ending in the franchise/comic books.  I also am seeing Buffy so much more as a woman who has been made vulnerable and victimized by so many people whom she loved and trusted.  Is Buffy going through a phase of hitting bottom and having to find out once again, how to be the heroic Slayer and how to finally heal herself from her love and history with Angel?
 
That whole Twilight Time has been pretty confusing for me - I don't know what to make of how Joss Whedon and Dark Horse have turned her into such a victimized woman in these comic books.


I haven't read the comics and I have no intention of reading them so even though I have heard about what happens in them it doesn't effect how I write or see the relationship between them. I do have to say that the Buffy Joss created on the show was victimized by those she loved long before the comics came out. After the Angel/Angelus relationship I don't think Joss ever let her grow emotionally. Buffy may have been a strong a female but only where her slayer attributes were concerned. By the end of season 7 she was a warrior in every sense the of the word. But Buffy herself was a wounded little girl who was never allowed to grow up. I place the blame for that on Angel, Giles, Willow and Xander. They kept her emotionally stunted and from what I have heard about the comics that won't change any time soon. The Buffy from the show and the comics will never have a successful loving healthy romantic relationship with someone because at this point she is incapable of it. She has never been exposed to one. Her parents divorced, Giles was single, Xander and Anya imploded, Willow and Tara (well we all know what Willow did to Tara). She has no reference for a good relationship in her life and she never had one either except for the friendship she shared with Spike when she first came back (before the sex) and when he came back after the soul.

By the end of season 7 they should have been able to build something lasting between them. But Buffy's inability to commit to someone other than Angel ruined it. I put the blame for that on Angel. After they broke up he continued to re-enter her life when he should have stayed away like any other former boyfriend. Instead when it seemed like she would start to move on he would show up and make her doubt her decisions and dangle himself in front of her like a prize. He moved on repeatedly  Kate, Darla, Cordy, Nina. Angel had an image of her and he tried to keep Buffy in that image never allowing her to move on.

I think writers that stick to the show and ignore the comics in a way have it a bit easier. We can 'fix' that emotional damage easier. Get to her before she becomes so damaged by the actions of everyone else. The more years that go by it becomes harder to repair. There are only so many times you can have your heart broken before you give up, you stop trying. You assume from the get go that whatever relationship you are in will fail and you don't give much effort. You start to believe that you are unlovable. I think Buffy is at that point in the comics (again I don't read them but I do read the forums once in a while and that's my take on her) she thinks no one wants her. Spike does, but he has also been damaged and he can't enter into a relationship with her unless she gives it her all. But Buffy doesn't have the emotional grounding to do it, she doesn't know how. The last time she did Angel tried to end the world and she can't take that risk again.

That leaves a very lonely Buffy and Spike. But I think despite how much Spike loves her he will move on where Buffy can't. Spike has always changed reinvented himself, Buffy never has.
Feb 15 2013 09:25 am   #23nmcil12
Thank you for your reply -

 The FanFiction writers have become the source of my  for my Buffyverse Love  now that the series has finished its life on television.  These comic books have only made the FF writers even more important to me.  I am so glad that  new writers, and that some of the early FF writers continue to create new stories for the Buffy and Spike relationship.  I notice that many of the writers are now going off into the fantasy-all human category which offers a good way to work with different themes and  non Sunnydale situations for works.  Is this the perfect time for the Spuffy FF writers and  readership to take the characters into new directions?  I read a story the other day that made me think of Buffy and Spike as potentially great variation on Nick & Nora Charles. 

 New Works that are based on the comic books are also excellent to continue to explore the Buffyverse characters - but the comics have really changed the Buffyverse.   I am finding  that I am losing almost all emotional connection for these characters with the comics.  Other than the arcs  that Buffy and Spike were featured together, very little else  has made any emotional impact on me.    
 

The Xander and Dawn story could have been a super interesting way to explore  the effects of how "being a Scooby"  impacted on Xander and Dawn. Instead the writers have almost nothing about their lives and the fans or FF writers have little information about Xander and Dawn.  If a FF writer  wanted to continue stories about these two, it would be difficult with the tiny bit of story that was dedicated to them.  In my opinion, Xander and Dawn were a great big missed opportunity.

Now with Buffy and the introduction of Whistler and the questions of how much interference or manipulation was part of the early Buffy and Angel love story  - we are left with so many questions with that part of the series story.  I'm finding it very  difficult to understand the perspective of the writers and powers over at Dark Horse and this "victim Buffy" they have created - they insane notion that To Make Buffy Great and Stronger and turn her into SuperSlayer Girl - the path is to beat her down in everyway possible - WTF is that? They turned Buffy into a tragic victim, but they never explained or justified why the story took this path.  Can't speak for anyone else, but for me it all comes down to "it's this way just because I said so." 

So where is Buffy now?  is she a damged woman and victim of her love and trust and is The Slayer almost all that is left of the wonderful heroic girl/warrior who could and did send Angel to his death in the Acatha cycle?  I really am very confused about where the character stands now or what I am expected to feel about her.  Is she a strong courageous woman or a victim?  And why is she the one having to take all the blame for the loss of magic in this world while Angel is once again living the "I am the big hero" over with Faith in London? 

How are the FF writers going to deal with Angel now - has he been fundamentally changed due to his conduct and choices during the Twilight Time? 

 
Feb 15 2013 09:47 am   #24nmcil12

In tribute to Spuffy and Valentine's Day 

Feb 20 2013 01:32 pm   #25Caro Mio
Buffy's choices of how to act on her feelings are her own. She has free will. If she was a real person, she'd have the chance to choose better right up until the day she dies. There are plenty of self-help books, therapists, advice shows, etc. she could learn from. Does Joss and his stable of writers have her do any of that? No. Since she's a fictional character, her staying stuck is the writer's fault. I can't blame Buffy when Buffy acts like no real human would, just because she's written that way for that choice.

I don't plan on taking the comics into consideration for my fics. The 'verse is what aired on TV. I don't know why anyone still bothers with the comics.
What If I'm Not the Slayer? now updated with chapters 22 and 23.
Feb 21 2013 07:08 pm   #26nmcil12
Buffy's choices of how to act on her feelings are her own. She has free will. If she was a real person, she'd have the chance to choose better right up until the day she dies. There are plenty of self-help books, therapists, advice shows, etc. she could learn from. Does Joss and his stable of writers have her do any of that? No. Since she's a fictional character, her staying stuck is the writer's fault. I can't blame Buffy when Buffy acts like no real human would, just because she's written that way for that choice.

I don't plan on taking the comics into consideration for my fics. The 'verse is what aired on TV. I don't know why anyone still bothers with the comics.


Great to see updates on your work -

This discussion started from comments at another site and my premise that Buffy herself has great deal to do with allowing herself to continue her vulnerability to her love and experiences with Angel.  The last ideas of Giles before he was killed were that even under the extreme conditions of the invasion and battle with Twilight/Angel, she would still think about saving Angel and not being fully engaged in "mortal combat" mode.  Unless there is going to be a big plot twist reveal later in the comic books that connects this last discussion with Xander; that Buffy was still under the control the the Twilight forces and that is why Giles said that she was trying to "not kill Angel" - I believe that Buffy's continued to make herself vulnerable to her early love experiences.  And for all the "she was uncertain" post series descriptions by Joss Whedon, her last words to Angel, IMO, were not words of "confusion" but of her continued longing to be with him and share her life with him in a love relationship - thus we end up at her failure to turn away from the temptations by Angel. 

I hate to say it, but my allegiance to Buffy as a character has been damaged by the current state of the Buffyverse - I see her so much more as a "damaged young woman & teen" now than even when the series aired.  Maybe this is the intent that Joss Whedon wants - to get Buffy in that "so low and damaged that she must find that inner strength that does make her a hero/heroine/champion."  I have to think that this is the fundamental premise that is taking place with Angel as well, but for me Angel will never be the phoenix that makes me love or respect him again.  I hope that I am wrong and that Angel and his story will bring me at least back to how I connected with the character at the end of the series. 

The comics and time have changed how I now see Buffy, Angel and the series.  I still hold the Buffyverse TV as Outstanding and Awesome, but I also see how very young these character were.  Their youth was always something that, IMO, had a big impact on the viewing audience with older viewers having a different perspective on the characters and events of the series - doing a re-watch of School Hard, Halloween, Lie To Me, and The Dark Age has made an even greater issue of "age" in the series and my interpretation of the Buffyverse TV. 

One thing that I also see different now is how much of a "young woman/teen" Buffy is when she falls in love with Angel - I found almost all of their romantic scenes so "sweet"  - I don't think the Bangel romance could have continued without turning off a lot of the older viewers of the series, just my opinion of course.  Thank goodness that Joss Whedon made the choice to cut off Angel from BtVS and start AtS - Angel was much too complicated a character to continue as Buffy's boy friend in the  pre Angelus status.   
Feb 21 2013 10:47 pm   #27slaymesoftly
Buffy's choices of how to act on her feelings are her own. She has free will. If she was a real person, she'd have the chance to choose better right up until the day she dies. There are plenty of self-help books, therapists, advice shows, etc. she could learn from. Does Joss and his stable of writers have her do any of that? No. Since she's a fictional character, her staying stuck is the writer's fault. I can't blame Buffy when Buffy acts like no real human would, just because she's written that way for that choice.

I don't plan on taking the comics into consideration for my fics. The 'verse is what aired on TV. I don't know why anyone still bothers with the comics.


Great to see updates on your work -

This discussion started from comments at another site and my premise that Buffy herself has great deal to do with allowing herself to continue her vulnerability to her love and experiences with Angel.  The last ideas of Giles before he was killed were that even under the extreme conditions of the invasion and battle with Twilight/Angel, she would still think about saving Angel and not being fully engaged in "mortal combat" mode.  Unless there is going to be a big plot twist reveal later in the comic books that connects this last discussion with Xander; that Buffy was still under the control the the Twilight forces and that is why Giles said that she was trying to "not kill Angel" - I believe that Buffy's continued to make herself vulnerable to her early love experiences.  And for all the "she was uncertain" post series descriptions by Joss Whedon, her last words to Angel, IMO, were not words of "confusion" but of her continued longing to be with him and share her life with him in a love relationship - thus we end up at her failure to turn away from the temptations by Angel. 

I hate to say it, but my allegiance to Buffy as a character has been damaged by the current state of the Buffyverse - I see her so much more as a "damaged young woman & teen" now than even when the series aired.  Maybe this is the intent that Joss Whedon wants - to get Buffy in that "so low and damaged that she must find that inner strength that does make her a hero/heroine/champion."  I have to think that this is the fundamental premise that is taking place with Angel as well, but for me Angel will never be the phoenix that makes me love or respect him again.  I hope that I am wrong and that Angel and his story will bring me at least back to how I connected with the character at the end of the series. 

The comics and time have changed how I now see Buffy, Angel and the series.  I still hold the Buffyverse TV as Outstanding and Awesome, but I also see how very young these character were.  Their youth was always something that, IMO, had a big impact on the viewing audience with older viewers having a different perspective on the characters and events of the series - doing a re-watch of School Hard, Halloween, Lie To Me, and The Dark Age has made an even greater issue of "age" in the series and my interpretation of the Buffyverse TV. 

One thing that I also see different now is how much of a "young woman/teen" Buffy is when she falls in love with Angel - I found almost all of their romantic scenes so "sweet"  - I don't think the Bangel romance could have continued without turning off a lot of the older viewers of the series, just my opinion of course.  Thank goodness that Joss Whedon made the choice to cut off Angel from BtVS and start AtS - Angel was much too complicated a character to continue as Buffy's boy friend in the  pre Angelus status.   



I don't think the Bangel romance could have continued without turning off a lot of the older viewers of the series, just my opinion of course  

My standard answer for years, when asked why I didn't believe in Bangel, was "because I'm not fourteen".
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 21 2013 11:54 pm   #28Caro Mio 
Thanks, Nmcil.

Oh, yes, it's very much a young first love situation. Everyone remembers their first love, but most of us outgrow it. It's rare for a first serious relationship to be the right relationship for the rest of your life (especially these days when children are allowed to be children much longer, vs. tiny adults).
Feb 22 2013 01:22 pm   #29ginar369
Thanks, Nmcil.

Oh, yes, it's very much a young first love situation. Everyone remembers their first love, but most of us outgrow it. It's rare for a first serious relationship to be the right relationship for the rest of your life (especially these days when children are allowed to be children much longer, vs. tiny adults).


So true. I mean seriously how many people actually marry their high school sweethearts? And most if they do wind up divorced all too soon. I think a lot of it has to do with movies and TV. Those romantic shows and true love. Jeez. When you're a teenager your tastes and likes change every day! You haven't figured out who you are or who you want to be yet. That makes it almost impossible to find the ONE at that age. What you like, who you love changes as you age. Tall dark and mysterious is fun when you're young. But not what you want when you're older.

Most of us have that one person we fell for in high school. Fell madly passionately in love with. But we grew up, grew apart. But we can still look back at the memories with a fond smile of that love. Buffy doesn't have that with Angel. So I think she and Angel made it into some grand forever love to deal with it. They had to have a tragic star-crossed lovers tale. Otherwise all that pain and suffering was for nothing. She can't remember that time without heartache and horror. So it had to mean something. Not only that but Angelus convinced her it was her fault. When it was really Angel's fault for not finding out about the curse. So she has guilt for 'making' him lose his soul and all the people he killed during that time.  Plus Angel just wont let her go. Even after he left her he kept popping up in her life. Ex's are supposed to stay gone. Not show up every once in a while and give you a commentary on your life and how much they still love you. Especially when they are the ones who broke up with you. Then to tell her that she needed a normal relationship? All the while telling her he still loved her? How the hell is a girl who deals with crazy crap all the time that would get the rest of us thrown in the loony bin if we told anyone going to have a normal life? A human husband would be a target. Children would become pawns. Besides what human guy would be okay with a girlfriend/wife who can pick up a car by herself? Or has to leave the family party to kill monsters? Or a date called on account of an apocalypse?

Her friends and family didn't help either. Joyce was disappointed in her early on not understanding what was happening. Xander and Willow had her on such a pedestal that she was bound to fall off. They were allowed to enter any relationship they wanted but Buffy needed a committee vote. All because of Angel. I mean who hasn't had a guy go a bit psycho on them? (Or is that just my crappy luck? LOL) It happened and it wasn't Buffy's fault but they made her feel like it was so she never felt like she could make her own choices after that. She was terrified they would leave her. So she made them happy.

Until Buffy learns that the only person she has to make happy is herself she will be miserable. You have to be able to look in the mirror each morning and like the person you see. If others don't like what they see when they look at you that's their problem. But I don't think she will ever get there the way Joss and Co. have made her. They even questioned her slaying in season 7, betraying her for a slayer who hadn't actually slayed in years and was never all that good at it to begin with. If I was Buffy I would have a bot made, send it out there with all her 'friends' and run away with Spike. Just jump in that space ship and fly away. Cause they really only want a bot. Someone who will do what they want, how they want it and when they want it. Then she can go live her life and find some happiness for once.
Feb 22 2013 05:54 pm   #30All4Spike
If I was Buffy I would have a bot made, send it out there with all her 'friends' and run away with Spike. Just jump in that space ship and fly away. Cause they really only want a bot. Someone who will do what they want, how they want it and when they want it. Then she can go live her life and find some happiness for once.

Now, there's a plot for a fic, if ever I heard one, Gina! Although the bugs' spaceship need not be the mode of escape, depending upon the timing of the escape - and of course if it was during the TV series canon, Dawn would probably have had to go too, or at least be given the option of staying with the Scoobies and the Bot or leaving with Buffy & Spike.
Love's a funny thing...
Feb 22 2013 08:04 pm   #31slaymesoftly
Thanks, Nmcil.

Oh, yes, it's very much a young first love situation. Everyone remembers their first love, but most of us outgrow it. It's rare for a first serious relationship to be the right relationship for the rest of your life (especially these days when children are allowed to be children much longer, vs. tiny adults).


So true. I mean seriously how many people actually marry their high school sweethearts? And most if they do wind up divorced all too soon. I think a lot of it has to do with movies and TV. Those romantic shows and true love. Jeez. When you're a teenager your tastes and likes change every day! You haven't figured out who you are or who you want to be yet. That makes it almost impossible to find the ONE at that age. What you like, who you love changes as you age. Tall dark and mysterious is fun when you're young. But not what you want when you're older.

Most of us have that one person we fell for in high school. Fell madly passionately in love with. But we grew up, grew apart. But we can still look back at the memories with a fond smile of that love. Buffy doesn't have that with Angel. So I think she and Angel made it into some grand forever love to deal with it. They had to have a tragic star-crossed lovers tale. Otherwise all that pain and suffering was for nothing. She can't remember that time without heartache and horror. So it had to mean something. Not only that but Angelus convinced her it was her fault. When it was really Angel's fault for not finding out about the curse. So she has guilt for 'making' him lose his soul and all the people he killed during that time.  Plus Angel just wont let her go. Even after he left her he kept popping up in her life. Ex's are supposed to stay gone. Not show up every once in a while and give you a commentary on your life and how much they still love you. Especially when they are the ones who broke up with you. Then to tell her that she needed a normal relationship? All the while telling her he still loved her? How the hell is a girl who deals with crazy crap all the time that would get the rest of us thrown in the loony bin if we told anyone going to have a normal life? A human husband would be a target. Children would become pawns. Besides what human guy would be okay with a girlfriend/wife who can pick up a car by herself? Or has to leave the family party to kill monsters? Or a date called on account of an apocalypse?

Her friends and family didn't help either. Joyce was disappointed in her early on not understanding what was happening. Xander and Willow had her on such a pedestal that she was bound to fall off. They were allowed to enter any relationship they wanted but Buffy needed a committee vote. All because of Angel. I mean who hasn't had a guy go a bit psycho on them? (Or is that just my crappy luck? LOL) It happened and it wasn't Buffy's fault but they made her feel like it was so she never felt like she could make her own choices after that. She was terrified they would leave her. So she made them happy.

Until Buffy learns that the only person she has to make happy is herself she will be miserable. You have to be able to look in the mirror each morning and like the person you see. If others don't like what they see when they look at you that's their problem. But I don't think she will ever get there the way Joss and Co. have made her. They even questioned her slaying in season 7, betraying her for a slayer who hadn't actually slayed in years and was never all that good at it to begin with. If I was Buffy I would have a bot made, send it out there with all her 'friends' and run away with Spike. Just jump in that space ship and fly away. Cause they really only want a bot. Someone who will do what they want, how they want it and when they want it. Then she can go live her life and find some happiness for once.


Well said, Gin!
I am not a minion of Evil...
I am upper management.
Feb 23 2013 08:24 am   #32nmcil12

What are your current ideas on Joss Whedon and what has happened to Buffy?  What are some reasons that might be his motivations turning her into such a victim in The Twilight Time and in these comic books? 

It's not just the comic books - when I watch "As You Were" I cringe over the "pathetic girl left behind" Buffy treatment.  Of course, within the context of the metaphor and symbolism of that season, Mr. Joe Normal & his perfect wife, are brilliant - but still why make Buffy so weak?  Joss Whedon and his writers did an awesome story cycle with the dreamscape episodes that begin with "Dead Things" and resolve in "As You Were" - but why make Buffy so vulnerable to Riley and then again with Angel in the Twilight story?









 

Feb 23 2013 02:56 pm   #33ginar369
Thanks, Nmcil.

Oh, yes, it's very much a young first love situation. Everyone remembers their first love, but most of us outgrow it. It's rare for a first serious relationship to be the right relationship for the rest of your life (especially these days when children are allowed to be children much longer, vs. tiny adults).


So true. I mean seriously how many people actually marry their high school sweethearts? And most if they do wind up divorced all too soon. I think a lot of it has to do with movies and TV. Those romantic shows and true love. Jeez. When you're a teenager your tastes and likes change every day! You haven't figured out who you are or who you want to be yet. That makes it almost impossible to find the ONE at that age. What you like, who you love changes as you age. Tall dark and mysterious is fun when you're young. But not what you want when you're older.

Most of us have that one person we fell for in high school. Fell madly passionately in love with. But we grew up, grew apart. But we can still look back at the memories with a fond smile of that love. Buffy doesn't have that with Angel. So I think she and Angel made it into some grand forever love to deal with it. They had to have a tragic star-crossed lovers tale. Otherwise all that pain and suffering was for nothing. She can't remember that time without heartache and horror. So it had to mean something. Not only that but Angelus convinced her it was her fault. When it was really Angel's fault for not finding out about the curse. So she has guilt for 'making' him lose his soul and all the people he killed during that time.  Plus Angel just wont let her go. Even after he left her he kept popping up in her life. Ex's are supposed to stay gone. Not show up every once in a while and give you a commentary on your life and how much they still love you. Especially when they are the ones who broke up with you. Then to tell her that she needed a normal relationship? All the while telling her he still loved her? How the hell is a girl who deals with crazy crap all the time that would get the rest of us thrown in the loony bin if we told anyone going to have a normal life? A human husband would be a target. Children would become pawns. Besides what human guy would be okay with a girlfriend/wife who can pick up a car by herself? Or has to leave the family party to kill monsters? Or a date called on account of an apocalypse?

Her friends and family didn't help either. Joyce was disappointed in her early on not understanding what was happening. Xander and Willow had her on such a pedestal that she was bound to fall off. They were allowed to enter any relationship they wanted but Buffy needed a committee vote. All because of Angel. I mean who hasn't had a guy go a bit psycho on them? (Or is that just my crappy luck? LOL) It happened and it wasn't Buffy's fault but they made her feel like it was so she never felt like she could make her own choices after that. She was terrified they would leave her. So she made them happy.

Until Buffy learns that the only person she has to make happy is herself she will be miserable. You have to be able to look in the mirror each morning and like the person you see. If others don't like what they see when they look at you that's their problem. But I don't think she will ever get there the way Joss and Co. have made her. They even questioned her slaying in season 7, betraying her for a slayer who hadn't actually slayed in years and was never all that good at it to begin with. If I was Buffy I would have a bot made, send it out there with all her 'friends' and run away with Spike. Just jump in that space ship and fly away. Cause they really only want a bot. Someone who will do what they want, how they want it and when they want it. Then she can go live her life and find some happiness for once.


Well said, Gin!


Thanks! I never understood something. I read somewhere that Joss wanted Buffy to be a strong female character. Unfortunately he missed the mark. Physical strength is different from emotional strength. Especially with someone like Buffy. She is like a split personality, Buffy the girl and Buffy the Slayer. He may have given Buffy the Slayer physical and emotional strength but he fell short with Buffy the girl.

If someone loves you, really loves you they don't try to change you. They love all of you even the things about you that make them crazy. Everyone in Buffy's life wanted her to act and be a certain way. Joyce wanted a normal daughter. One who didn't get into trouble. Giles wanted a perfect slayer. Willow wanted a best friend. Xander just wanted her. Angel wanted and needed her to be his redemption. Riley wanted a girl he could play the big strong man to. She tried to make them all happy at the cost of her own happiness and sense of self. The fact that she could never be everything each of them wanted at the same time is what caused most of her problems. There's that saying: You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. They put so much pressure on her over the years that  I don't think she really knows who she is or what she wants. She wont ever get there either unless she makes a clean break from them all.

Spike was the only one who saw her clearly. He knew all of her faults and loved her because of them. To him she was perfect the way she was. Even when he was on her about telling her friends. I think it was because he knew what kind of control they had over her. He wanted her to break free from it and become her own person. When you find someone who just let's you be.... You hang on to them be it as friends or lovers or something else. It's rare that acceptance.
Feb 24 2013 04:46 am   #34nmcil12

Bravo - a wonderful description - it tells so much of the psychological elements of the Angel Buffy love. 

Mar 01 2013 05:52 am   #35nmcil12

sorry that this is not the right place for this comment -  but I just wanted to contact ginar369 about a banner for Dawn Diary - not sure if my PM are reaching you.  Please check.